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Clutching on a 1996 Ultra with PSI pipes

I too had a 800 ultra like TJ and..

It makes good power but 180 is pretty optimistic, our sleds ran pretty close with nearly the same clutching, and I honestly think they make a real 165-170 hp with PSI's on them. I went to flat slide carbs which helped the throttle response and midrange pull. In a drag race on grass, no 800 twin can hang unless its built to the nuts. If you want a true 180 hp you need to be running race pipes and turn about 92-9400 rpm. The old Doo 809's ran as hard as any 800 triple I have seen and they needed to turn ultra high rpm to make 180 hp. John
 
It makes good power but 180 is pretty optimistic, our sleds ran pretty close with nearly the same clutching, and I honestly think they make a real 165-170 hp with PSI's on them. I went to flat slide carbs which helped the throttle response and midrange pull. In a drag race on grass, no 800 twin can hang unless its built to the nuts. If you want a true 180 hp you need to be running race pipes and turn about 92-9400 rpm. The old Doo 809's ran as hard as any 800 triple I have seen and they needed to turn ultra high rpm to make 180 hp. John

Just out of curiosity, What jetting did you use for the flat slides? what altitude/temp. jet, nozzle, needle, main. and Vforce? I had flat slides but I had a midrange lean spot that that gave me fits....ended boring the round slides and using UFO's seems about the same but more finicky. I do think your numbers are a little low, I run against two 900 one has twins and one is after market single. The single sled is run by a guy who has me by 50 lbs and I can beat him easily, the other guy is about my size and I have trouble with him, but can still beat him espicially now that I geared down. I think their 160 or so HP is getting to the track better because I bet I lose 10% spinning my clutches 1500 more RPM than them....

Karl

Karl
 
Keep in mind the original quote was not beat but run with. Also, the OP clearly has a piped ultra. Properly set up with triple pipes he will lose 30 lbs off the front end and have 150 honest hp which is similar to the 900 cat. Now we have to get into comparing apples to apples. That ultra is capable of 100 mph. The cat is not and the xp is clearly not. So in a race that the ultra was designed for it wins. You are right to say who cares, how does it climb? Well the modern 163 single ply 2.5 inch tracks will wax the 133 2 inch on the stock ultra. But I can tell you as a fact, I put on a 2 inch 156 and ride every weekend with a piped 900 163 2.5" cat with a few more mods like a milled head and I am very very close climbing and I beat him in a drag race. yes I have a pump BB kit, But sleave the ultra and add some storm pistons and presto 180 hp for the price of a set of pipes for the XP or 900. Put a modern track on the ultra and I bet things get interesting. The problem is you can't do this without an extended chaincase.

So where are we? Clearly if anyone offered me a new D8, M8, or Xp or modified ultra, clearly I would take the modern sleds on ergos and handling alone. As a matter of fact I am eying a TD8 for next year. But it was 2005 before I found a stock sled that would even come close to mine and I have been riding it since 1996.

cheers!

Been there done it. It's still sitting in my garage. Won't hang with my new XP. Maybe in spring hero snow but still doubt it. The 800 Ultra might have a few more ponies but the new chassis are just to advanced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shu8htDQaiQ

PICT0053.jpg


untitled.jpg
 
karl I dynoed mine. 180hp is acheivable but not on pump gas. I have my timing advanced and compression pumped up and actually have to run 50/50 Av or 3 gallons of race fuel. It pulled 152hp at 3k feet. Corrected at sea level would have been right in the claimed 170hp range. To get an extra 10hp you need big compression and more porting which would be a race gas motor. I think 185hp is possible or maybe even 190 but you will not be running pump gas.
 
ok so i pulled the clutch and it has a light? blue spring in it... but it also needs cleaned badly so i'll do that before i start taking it apart... I also get to repaint my pipes and grease the zirks, etc. because its ok with him...

He said paint the pipes silver because black paint will turn white any opinions on this?

and another kid said i should paint it all silver and call it the "Silver Surfer" lol...

What weights? Light blue spring or dark blue? Make sure to check the gearing also.
 
I can tell you that split second made 204 hp on a 2000 800xcr set up for racing. I to have worn out a few Ultra's and they really did make the power but if the chassis is not modded then some it gets lost in the steep and deep.
 
What weights? Light blue spring or dark blue? Make sure to check the gearing also.

it has the light blue spring and 10/5M weights... I need too order these parts tonight or tomorrow morning... i can't afford the cat roller clutch but i really need to know what to put on this sled...
 
it has the light blue spring and 10/5M weights... I need too order these parts tonight or tomorrow morning... i can't afford the cat roller clutch but i really need to know what to put on this sled...


I have a almond/blue in mine with 55 gram weights.(800) No idea what the 10/5M weights weigh, or what the secondary has for helix/spring so I would really be guessing what to put in it. Probally somewhere around 52 or 53's but again it's hard to say withough knowing the gearing and secondary setup.


Blue 0.207 3.55 120 300
Dark Blue 0.218 3.52 120 310
Dark Blue/White 0.225 3.52 120 310
Almond (square) 0.207 3.65 140 330
Almond/Gold 0.207 4.00 150 290
Black/White 0.218 3.52 140 320
Almond/Black 0.200 3.75 165 310
Almond/blue 0.218 3.75 150 310
Almond/Red 0.207 4.29 165 310
Black/Green 0.218 3.38 120 340
 
i haven't ordered the parts yet... because i'm still not sure what i need... TJ is that what you would put in it even though mine is a 680? i'm guessing the gearing is stock, but my dad won't let me touch anything else until i do take care of this clutch first...
 
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i haven't ordered the parts yet... because i'm still not sure what i need... TJ is that what you would put in it even though mine is a 680? i'm guessing the gearing is stock, but my dad won't let me touch anything else until i do take care of this clutch first...

Actually I have the almound/gold which is the 150/290 and 55 gram weights. Again I have not ran a 680 for years and years so I would assume some where around 53 - 52 grams but not 100% sure. maybe someone has a setup spec sheet from SLP and you can get an idea from that for weights...
 
ok thanks... but like i said before i haven't ever clutched anything so what does more weight do? less weight?
 
More weight = lower rpm and lower engagement. Weight can be distibuted at the heal, in the middle and at the tip. Weight at the tip lowers rpm at fast track speeds and weight near the heal at slow track speeds. Where the weight is located is identified by the weight series numbers 10m etc. Use the weights recomended by SLP web site for starters.

The PRIMARY spring works against the weights. Stiffer the spring the higher the rpm and higher the engagement. You can't change weights or springs without changing RPM or engagement. Springs come in different rates and starting stiffness so you can change shift rpm at different track speeds.

Secondary spring contols how easy it is to pull the belt down in the secondary. If it is a loose spring, the belt can be pulled down and RPM will drop. Again a variety of initial force and rates are available to tune RPM's at different track speeds. Pre tensioning the spring by changing the hole location will move the rpm the entire range of track speeds.

The helix also controls how the belt falls into the secondary. Think of it as an ax sinking into wood. A very narrow ax will put alot of side force on the wood and split it while a very broad ax will not put as much side force. So a low angle ramp will pinch the belt tighter for a given amount of belt tension and resist being pulled in to the secondary. The helix is what controls back shift. It turns out that when you pull a motor down from peak horse power, engine torque actually increases and so does belt tension. When tension increases, the helix acually screws the secondary together producing a back shift...So you can tune rpm with a helix, but remember, if you choose too agressive of a helix, the sled my pull like crazy from the bottom, but if you get out of the throttle and then back in, it might not back shift.

The important thing to remember, is that there is not a single truth. You can clutch the primary light and use light springs, but the tension might not be enough and you might get a bouncing RPM. Also, if you clutch light, it will be more sensitive to dirt or lack of maintenance. You also don't want belt slippage (heat).

If you clutch heavy and compensate with heavy springs, it will be less sensitive to maintenance trouble, but the clutch and wear out faster, be less efficient be cause ther is too much friction, but back shift might improve.

Experts out there make sure I did not lie, or get myself confused....

Put in SLP's combo and then tell us what is happening
 
Great Post. Espically the way you explained the secondary.

More weight = lower rpm and lower engagement. Weight can be distibuted at the heal, in the middle and at the tip. Weight at the tip lowers rpm at fast track speeds and weight near the heal at slow track speeds. Where the weight is located is identified by the weight series numbers 10m etc. Use the weights recomended by SLP web site for starters.

The PRIMARY spring works against the weights. Stiffer the spring the higher the rpm and higher the engagement. You can't change weights or springs without changing RPM or engagement. Springs come in different rates and starting stiffness so you can change shift rpm at different track speeds.

Secondary spring contols how easy it is to pull the belt down in the secondary. If it is a loose spring, the belt can be pulled down and RPM will drop. Again a variety of initial force and rates are available to tune RPM's at different track speeds. Pre tensioning the spring by changing the hole location will move the rpm the entire range of track speeds.

The helix also controls how the belt falls into the secondary. Think of it as an ax sinking into wood. A very narrow ax will put alot of side force on the wood and split it while a very broad ax will not put as much side force. So a low angle ramp will pinch the belt tighter for a given amount of belt tension and resist being pulled in to the secondary. The helix is what controls back shift. It turns out that when you pull a motor down from peak horse power, engine torque actually increases and so does belt tension. When tension increases, the helix acually screws the secondary together producing a back shift...So you can tune rpm with a helix, but remember, if you choose too agressive of a helix, the sled my pull like crazy from the bottom, but if you get out of the throttle and then back in, it might not back shift.

The important thing to remember, is that there is not a single truth. You can clutch the primary light and use light springs, but the tension might not be enough and you might get a bouncing RPM. Also, if you clutch light, it will be more sensitive to dirt or lack of maintenance. You also don't want belt slippage (heat).

If you clutch heavy and compensate with heavy springs, it will be less sensitive to maintenance trouble, but the clutch and wear out faster, be less efficient be cause ther is too much friction, but back shift might improve.

Experts out there make sure I did not lie, or get myself confused....

Put in SLP's combo and then tell us what is happening
 
pernikm....good post.

I would add that the thing I shoot for is as close to 1:1 primary to secondary belt ride on the hardest pull I can stand. what that does is keep my belt in as efficient a position as possible. I will be giving up some on the flats, but not blowing a belt 2k feet up a 3k chute. the gearing of the sled, the helix and spring are all gonna be the variables that get you there. you want to be just shy of slipping the belt, but not slipping. keep throwing gear at it till it starts coming up in the secondary.

sounds expensive at first, but you will save money on belts and big ol' fat ear to ear grins are worth it:D
 
ok thanks guys i'll start with SLP and go on from there... I also noticed they had my clutch on "5" and i'm pretty sure that is too much, and from my first post on this thread it said "2" is best and use "3" for heavy/powder conditions, so i should move it back to "2" for now correct?
 
but because i have aftermarket filters instead of an airbox does that change anything?

i also can't find SLP's "blue stripe" secondary spring, part#40-42
 
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