Clutching on a 1996 Ultra with PSI pipes

[WyoUltra]

I have a 96' ultra that doesn't have the low end grunt our two 700's have. It takes a while to get wound up (accelerates slow with no low end grunt that won't pull your arms off). But it might have been clutched before because when you hit 70 mph you can feel it pull a lot harder. I pulled this Clutch tuning chart off of the snowmobile fanatics forum...

We probably ride 6000-9000'

Elevation: 6,000 and Higher
Primary Spring- Black/Red, SLP part #40-68 (Best)
(Second Choice- Blue, Polaris part #7041080)
*Primary Weight-m "10", Polaris Part #7041296 (51 Gram)
Secondary Spring- Blue, Polaris part #7041296, or SLP part #40-42, Blue Stripe
Helix- Progressive, 42-34, SLP part #40-42/34
#2 Preload (#3 preload for heavy conditions)

Is this what i need in my sled? I want it to pull like our 700's if not harder.
I haven't ever clutched a sled before any hints or tips?

 

[spring snow hero]

I can't give you the skinny on the clutch recipie......but I can tell you this, the 700 twin when setup right will pull out of the hole harder then the ultra by a wee little bit. the ultra is heavier and lacks the low end. in ordrer two hang with the 7 out of the hole it is all gonna have to be perfect. it sounds like you can improve on your setup, but don't get too high of hopes.....once the pig is spinning though......they can rip!

 

[big_wally81]

one of my buddies also has a 96 ultra with lots of goodies on it and it is a bit slow out of the hole but once its wound up it has more than enough power. i will try to check what he has for clutching in his and get back to you.

 

[WyoUltra]

alright, i was told to call this dealer too so i will when i get around to it and see what he has to say...

 

[IbBroken]

Is your ultra a triple pipe or single pipe? are you long track 136' or longer ? There are some variables in there for tuning preference. I had a 96 ultra single pipe and can the slp power dome heads. I used a factory R-11 helix with dark blue spring and a almond square primary spring with "10" weights. It ripped like a Bastage.... the almond red i believe replaced the square almond due to breakage of the square spring. Just double check with the dealer they will know. That set up will Rips out of the whole. Hope this helps ya . Good luck and good riding.

 

[WyoUltra]

it is a 1996 ultra with psi pipes and we have filters that just bolt onto the carbs instead of the stock air box, but aren't installed yet... and either the stock 133.5 or a 136... i think it may be 136 because it has a different track than our XLT RMK with the stock track, or did they both have different tracks???

 

[IbBroken]

One more thing to double check before buying any parts is the rollers in the primary clutch. If they are galled up or the rollers fragged it can give a sluggish low end then once the power comes on it will pull hard. But like i said the almond spring with the "10" weights hits way hard and i was pulling about 8400- 8650 rpm and with your triple pipes that should make one wicked sled across a lake. or up a mountain face. Good luck and PS. buy some left side motor straps you will need them.

 

[spring snow hero]

one thing to watch on the piped ultra is the midrange. slp made a needle that helped, but they did get toasty in the mid if you just swapped mains w/the pipes..........fyi. a pm to indydan will get you a long ways on the tuning...I betcha

 

[Throttle Junkie]

What gearing?? Those things came stupid high geared. for the mountains run a 19/42 or 19/41. (9 tooth drivers)

I ran a 800 Ultra for years. 140/310 primary, 56 gram weights, with a gram ground right off the tip (55 grams), with artic secondary with Green Sno-Pro spring middle hole and 56/46 Helix. Flat out rips. I think with the poo secondary I ran a 42/36 or 42/34 helix...can't remember with the stiffest secondary spring for the button clutched. Only ran that one year..Cat Roller worked much better.

With the piped 680 you could run close to that just less weight.....53 grams..I would guess...maybe less. Spin it 8600 R's.....8700 and up it falls on it's face. 8450 to 8600 was the sweet spot...with 8600 being peak.

A properly setup PSI piped 680 Ultra will make those non VES 700's look silly.

 

[WyoUltra]

Sweet thanks guys, tomorrow in my auto class i can pull it out and see what i have in it...

 

[pernikm]

That is verbatim from the SLP web site for clutching for their tripple pipes. It should be close. Keep in mind that stock ultras were capable of 100 mph. Now you are turning 800 more rpm. Gear down...way down. I am running 18/40 or 42 in mine and I am 10 mph faster than any thing on the snow still. I can't quite remember which bottom sprocket I have, but it is the biggest that fits in that chain case. A properly set up ultra will run with 900 cats and xp's.

 

[sno*jet]

one set higher weights, for you, sounds like the 10s. i ran 10AL in mine for 3-6000'.
for a really good baseline, try the stock helix and spring. for mine it was a straight 36 i believe with a soft red spring. the thing flat ripped. 8 tooth drivers and stock 19/39 gears.

 

[Throttle Junkie]

A properly set up ultra will run with 900 cats and xp's.

ummmm ok..I came from an Ultra (800 Big Bore) and now on a XP. You must have a 200hp shot of nitrous on yours They run good, but c'mon now.....

 

[WyoUltra]

ok so i pulled the clutch and it has a light? blue spring in it... but it also needs cleaned badly so i'll do that before i start taking it apart... I also get to repaint my pipes and grease the zirks, etc. because its ok with him...

He said paint the pipes silver because black paint will turn white any opinions on this?

and another kid said i should paint it all silver and call it the "Silver Surfer" lol...

 

[pernikm]

ummmm ok..I came from an Ultra (800 Big Bore) and now on a XP. You must have a 200hp shot of nitrous on yours They run good, but c'mon now.....

In a drag race...I regularly beat 900 cats and xps take me by a sled length out of the hole then I roll past. Xp's are not that fast. Climbing the xp is better, but the 900 cat is not...but I am more than a piped ultra. But I am comparing apples to apples with similar tracks etc. It is a heck of alot easier to find 180 hp out of an ultra than xp. The real advantage of an xp is not pure performance. It is how tired you are at the end of the day. The modern chassis on all sleds are much nicer to ride.

Karl

 

[pernikm]

ok so i pulled the clutch and it has a light? blue spring in it... but it also needs cleaned badly so i'll do that before i start taking it apart... I also get to repaint my pipes and grease the zirks, etc. because its ok with him...

He said paint the pipes silver because black paint will turn white any opinions on this?

and another kid said i should paint it all silver and call it the "Silver Surfer" lol...

The nifty thing about ultra pipes, is that they are so short they fit into a gas BBQ. Clean them up; and paint them with black High temp paint...then cure them in the BBQ.

 

[Throttle Junkie]

In a drag race...I regularly beat 900 cats and xps take me by a sled length out of the hole then I roll past. Xp's are not that fast. Climbing the xp is better, but the 900 cat is not...but I am more than a piped ultra. But I am comparing apples to apples with similar tracks etc. It is a heck of alot easier to find 180 hp out of an ultra than xp. The real advantage of an xp is not pure performance. It is how tired you are at the end of the day. The modern chassis on all sleds are much nicer to ride.

Karl

OK. If your Ultra has 180hp it's not a 680 and it's far far from stock.

 

[pernikm]

OK. If your Ultra has 180hp it's not a 680 and it's far far from stock.

Keep in mind the original quote was not beat but run with. Also, the OP clearly has a piped ultra. Properly set up with triple pipes he will lose 30 lbs off the front end and have 150 honest hp which is similar to the 900 cat. Now we have to get into comparing apples to apples. That ultra is capable of 100 mph. The cat is not and the xp is clearly not. So in a race that the ultra was designed for it wins. You are right to say who cares, how does it climb? Well the modern 163 single ply 2.5 inch tracks will wax the 133 2 inch on the stock ultra. But I can tell you as a fact, I put on a 2 inch 156 and ride every weekend with a piped 900 163 2.5" cat with a few more mods like a milled head and I am very very close climbing and I beat him in a drag race. yes I have a pump BB kit, But sleave the ultra and add some storm pistons and presto 180 hp for the price of a set of pipes for the XP or 900. Put a modern track on the ultra and I bet things get interesting. The problem is you can't do this without an extended chaincase.

So where are we? Clearly if anyone offered me a new D8, M8, or Xp or modified ultra, clearly I would take the modern sleds on ergos and handling alone. As a matter of fact I am eying a TD8 for next year. But it was 2005 before I found a stock sled that would even come close to mine and I have been riding it since 1996.

cheers!

 

[spring snow hero]

pernikm, you are barking up the wrong tree on this one. TJ has worn out an ultra. the pigs can run, no doubt, but a 680 is a 680 is a 680. I too had a few hot triples, but the 180cc's is a lot of ground to make up.

stock the ultra was a disaster. it takes skilled hands deep pockets and strong backs to put an ultra in xp/kk country with like riders.

 

[pernikm]

pernikm, you are barking up the wrong tree on this one. TJ has worn out an ultra. the pigs can run, no doubt, but a 680 is a 680 is a 680. I too had a few hot triples, but the 180cc's is a lot of ground to make up.

stock the ultra was a disaster. it takes skilled hands deep pockets and strong backs to put an ultra in xp/kk country with like riders.

smiles... yes I have worn my ultra out twice and have held the smallest pieces in my hand... XP yes, KK no and Ken is a much better rider than me. I will take my sled anywhere a slightly modified KK goes. XP's are IMPRESSIVE I will give you that! And I know full well that the 680 is at its limit where the XP and KK are getting started...well at least the kk...I am not sold on XP improvability yet. That is why I am kicking around a new sled. But I think people are forgetting how stupid easy it is to build high HP triples. It is the twins that you pay $700 for a set of pipes and clutching and get...a whopping 5 hp. Gone are the days of 50+ hp pipes. Also, remember that ultras sell for 500 bucks. and GEN 2 and Edge stock and aftermarket components are all over Ebay at fire sale prices...and they bolt in. Rember the piped XCR 800 was good for 170 hp and it is nearly the same bottom end as the ultra. Ya, I have allot of money that I spent on my ultra, but it was spent at a time when the best sled was a 700 rmk, and I made those sleds look stupid. I have not spent the price of a modern sled on mine and if I started tommorrow I could build the same sled for 2000 dollars. If I am really crafty, I could do it at a profit. The OP was asking how to improve his ultra. For less that 15% of the price of a new sled he can get God damn close...God damn close. Just look at all the Rockin mid 90's sleds on this site.

But the new sleds do handle sweet and they are plug and play. I am not recommending that he take his sled as far as mine for one reason only. It is hard to get a 2.5 track under his. Other than that...

smiles!