clutching for an 09 XP

[yukondood]

back at it

Al, glad to see you back on the keyboard. Great info always appreciated.

Thanks

 

[killer]

I know that a lot of people on here have said that once you get the clutching dialed in, the XP's will do anything. Do you still have to mess with the clutching on the 09's because I just got the blue summit X home the other day and just the little bit i have moved it, the clutch doesn't kick in till right about 5000 RPM. Is that normal?

if you would like to lower your rpms change your spring i did that to mine and it made the sled run way nicer and it saved on belts

 

[Teth-Air]

relax , relax relax .. wait till you have it in the snow and have 3 tanks thru it before you go and throw a pill of cash around .

contrary to most thoughts on last years clutching on the 08 ..doo only missed with one componnent in the transmission .

one underlaying issue the 08 had was a very short life on the spring tower capbushing clearance. 07/08 the materials wer soft and achieved a to broad a clearence very shortly and would effect transmission oporation emmensely .

if the tower cap is good the item i talk about is the end load on the secondery spring .it was to soft for the type of track doo selected . duro was hard and lugs didnt bend much , this translates to a much higher load and a strain in the secondery as it up shifts and looses the amount of belt traction patch.

we tested all season on the doo transmission and we as well put the team secondery on to verify that we werer on the correct track , we saw the exact same symptoms and it took the exact same direction to correct it ,

when we did we saw the track speeds increase to were we thought the new chasi would send it .

no gearing change needed .
163 track speeds went from a typical deep snow scenario here of 37 mph to 54.
the 154 saw the same jump in track speed and the belts were at a temp and wear factor that was now acceptable .

the 09 approach does make me scratch my head but i want to seee what it actually does first before the speculatiion goes wild .

for 09 ski doo has changed the spring tower cap material and assure me they have it fixed . we hope so and will be the component that we watch closely out of the gate .


remmember relax relax relax till the sled proves to us we need to change it .

doo spends a lot of effort in trying to deliver a middle of the road set up that as it goes out the dealer s responsability for the fine tunning his customers need for there riding area is left on there shoulders .

all things said we put a yellow epi sec spring in last years sec , it was a 50 lb increase over what doo sent out and this one item made the sled absouloutly rock . no other changes needed .

on a note we achieved the highest track speed in deep snow going vertical on the gps with this set up in our big bore on this motor .

over all you should achieve a 7 mile an hour gain over the older rev chassi if you get the clutching correct and as well if it doesnt have a worn spring tower cap .

this bushing carries an immence load and when it wears pre maturely it is no wonder a lot of chasing was done 07/08 to find a good set up .

Al, how difficult is it to change out a QRS secondary spring? any special tool required?

thanks

 

[Tuesday]

no , actually we kept the gearing once we got the end loadcorrect . you could gear down , just need a bit more tip weight to get the up shift back .
we used the 2mm over size rollers to achieve this '.
we combined this with the shaving of the power valves 200ths . this puts the export opening when the guilletines are closed back close to were it was on the 06 model 800.
they use the opening of the power valves at 7400 as a wa to beat the sound emmissions test on the tail . you can pass by at 45 mph and not be intothe power valves as when they open they exceede 100 decibels .

the larger opening allows the pipe to come to pressure sooner and gives you the mid range pull you are used to on the older 800 motor it oopened at 5800rpm and in its closed position it was a 30 mm opening and the r motor is 25mm.

Als clutching set up and changing the power valves turned a stock 800r into a completely different beast. You have to ride that set up to actually believe it. Changing the power valves alone make the motor come alive in mid range.

Hats off Al.

 

[turboal]

yes a special tool is used to chnge the spring . with it the job is easy , with out it a little more challenging

 

[Throttle Junkie]

What the spring rate on the stock secondary spring that came in the 08's. Who tool do you use?

 

[REV4ARUSH]

Hey Al, can you give us some more details on how to modify the exhaust valves???

 

[pyxle]

And part number for the EPI spring?? Who do you get it through?

 

[Tuesday]

Hey Al, can you give us some more details on how to modify the exhaust valves???

we combined this with the shaving of the power valves 200ths . this puts the export opening when the guilletines are closed back close to were it was on the 06 model 800.
they use the opening of the power valves at 7400 as a wa to beat the sound emmissions test on the tail . you can pass by at 45 mph and not be intothe power valves as when they open they exceede 100 decibels .


As i recall they shaved the valves and the guides along the sides to bascially make the valve open earlier. Apparently you could send your cpu into the race department to have them program the valves to open earlier too but who knows if the would do it or what the cost would be. As I mentioned before the mid range increase was amazing. Post is not real informative.......its way easier to just call Al at the SledShed in revy. Earlier models used to open in the 5k range as well but due to EPA and sound control they moved the valves to open at 7k+

 

[turboal]

the reprogram is a tough call . being emmission related there apt to decline . race application is different scenario.that is why we shaved the power valves .really need them to open sooner to get the full effect .
stock sec spring has a300 lb fiish. one i us is a 350 finish .start is the same .

 

[Wyoming T/A]

will have a idea how the clutch works today--we're headed to the horns this AM

 

[Snowbyrd]

will have a idea how the clutch works today--we're headed to the horns this AM

Lucky Bastage!!!
Better take lots of pics for those of us at the keyboard

 

[Wyoming T/A]

ran the stock 09 154 x with 6mm pin weight and it is a tick too much to start with but after break in might end up right on the money---sleds rip and the RPM stay in 1 place [ now thats different ] we raced them a slight grade and they were very consistant --the 3- 2008's would run 300 more rpms down hill where the 09's stayed the same up or down---very nice to see this---my sugestion on the clutchs from our 1 ride is either 3mm or 6mm set screws and break it in for 200 to 300 miles---your going to like the helix from what i saw----jmo

 

[Original Tetonice]

Curious T/A are they running a straight 44 or 42 ?

OT

 

[Wyoming T/A]

Curious T/A are they running a straight 44 or 42 ?

OT

the 09's have a reverse angle helix---43-47--i like it so far

 

[turboal]

going by the 09 parts numbers the primary spring is a 200/320 and i want to see the profile on the 441 ramp .
really looking forward to seeing how the 09 works in the deep stuff once we get afew tanks through them . they do grow considerably when broke in

if you figured the motor is down 10 percent till it brakes in then by the 3rd tank we should have a good indication as to were the track speed is at.

also makes a huge difference as to the track used . if it is the same as last years then it will be interestig as to weather they are closer this year to wre we were able to get last years to.
163 in the 54 mph range
154 in the 58 mph range
146 totally stupid range , fun meter reading high on that one .
big bore 62 mph
all on a gps at 7000ft
only when the primary was in good shape , new that day as we erent getting more than a few hundred klms before they had to much clearance and began t play with the rpm

they assure me the 09 cap is fixed . really hope so as it has screwed up what could have been a lot more fun times .and a lot less belt debris.

soon , its pucking up there as i type

 

[Original Tetonice]

the 09's have a reverse angle helix---43-47--i like it so far

A multi-angle helix is a 1st for BRP, in the mountain sleds.....I've been running a 46/42 in my Team for for along time. It happens to be a winner in my setup.

OT

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

the reprogram is a tough call . being emmission related there apt to decline . race application is different scenario.that is why we shaved the power valves .really need them to open sooner to get the full effect .
stock sec spring has a300 lb fiish. one i us is a 350 finish .start is the same .

Neither the Canada nor US race department will touch an 08~newer ECU for a consumer. At race school, Tom Lawrence told us "dont send us your ecu, we won't touch it unless you are in a certain group in the drag race program"

Who can get their 08~09 ecu changed? Individuals that are working in engine and exhaust development that have a relationship with the race department. (u need to be on a list)

Yvon Petit mention to me it boils down to BRP consent to EPA conditions to allow sales in USA. Brp will ensure that percentage of ignition will comply with mapped out specs.

 

[turboal]

DJ thanks on the update , was pretty certian that they had to have some parameters, due to emmissions .

brings to lite the motor cycle world and how they built more specific to application.

so Doo why not build us a just mtn bare bones sled as we would by a cr 250 or kx , you get my drift.

i know it is a numbers game and i think the mtn segment is big enough now to warrant the building of a more specific equiped sled .

fuel emmissions are a major concern in your high populated areas
dont see any moto cross bikes running around in these areas , not compliant
taken to off road areas they comply
time to step up manufactures .

the sound emmission compliance is the largest deterant in the sleds we recieve today
closed in cabs and fully coated with sound deadining foam , the heat retention is staggering when the sled is in mtn use .
same sled on flat ground with a forward speed is way way different under hood temps , big time .

not even considering the exhaust tone , take the hood and plastic off and you will understand what i am saying . it is wildly noisey even with the quiet stock exhaust

exhaust wise when any sled and i mean any sled achieves a rpm of 7500 and up they all exceed 100 decibels

so far they are quiet due to the delayed opening of the exhaust valve on the r motors till 7400rpm

doing this achieves sound compliance for sound emmissions guide lines in there testing process . which is a bit dubious but we all learn .

it kills the mid range of these motors as compared to what we had become accustomed to on the series 3 motor

so opting out to meet sound emmissions requirments they delivered a carbed
sensored [gotta get rid of old parts] beast LOL's

pretty good job considering the guide lines they have to meet .

understanding what they are up against makes you appreciate the product they deliver for your play time.

a pure mtn sled , is it possable . not with out a custom build for some time.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

In 05 there was a select few 800SDI's that went around to some platinum dealers out in Eastern US states.
Observation - belt blowing mo-fo. Crankshaft temperature is raised 40 to 70 degrees higher than the 800 Carb version.
Now Liq Coold CCase should solve this problem?

I had a belt blowing SDI [14 in one season] and have measured 03 carb vs. 04 600sdi that run the same clutch calibration through the same rough trail and at the stop, using Fluke thermal image (borrowed from work) measured average of 40 degrees higher at the crankshaft stub.
...although when i traded complete clutches between the sleds, the belt blowing followed the clutches. 40 miles with stock clutch, belt blows. 80 miles with clutch kit, belt blows. Buddy got rid of that sled.

Could carb be cooler crank stub due to fuel going into crankcase?

Im with Al on thinking carbs will be on the sleds till they run low enough numbers that they'll land on parts shelf - then sdi will come on an 800.