Closures at Jones Pass?

[rhalloran]

Ok, so the other thread derailed into a PJ-Kaleb lover's quarrel, but in that thread, despite Jones not being "in" Winter Park, it was mentioned that "1/4 of the riding area" was lost "this year."

Which quarter? I searched, I did not find. What'd I miss?

 

[tudizzle]

I am guessing an area has been set aside exclusively for the cat operation?

 

[rhalloran]

hmmm, maybe?

Why'd you go and make Kaleb mad, now he's not sharing. Sheesh.

C'mon, Kaleb, spill it, what got lost?

 

[rhalloran]

Alright, just called the FS, the guy I spoke with said "we've had some problems with illegal use on Vasquez Peak, in the wilderness areas, but the boundary has not changed, to the best of my knowledge."

Hmmm.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Sorry for the derail. I only had intentions of offering some info. Kaleb got bent. Didn't mean for that to happen.

 

[rhalloran]

Hah! All in fun. This is probably more appropriate, anyway.

 

[tudizzle]

so no change in the available area to use at Jones.


Just enforcing the wilderness line that has been abused?

 

[rhalloran]

That's what I got out of it, but OTOH, if the catop got (what I'm guessing is) their wish, the FS guy would not really distinguish.

I don't KNOW that the catop has been trying to get the FS to enforce a "groomers only" policy there, like at Vail/Buff Pass, but I've heard it 4th+ hand, and it'd not surprise me - surely they WANT that.

Dunno. If Kaleb says that the area was reduced by 1/4, there's something to it - but the FS guy did not know.

In his defense, he did say "to the best of my knowledge" or the like. I was up there the past 2 weekends, I've not seen anything indicating change.

 

[WC]

Ok, so the other thread derailed into a PJ-Kaleb lover's quarrel,

man i missed the fun. let me guess...

damm city gapers
Parking at Rabbit Ears

 

[PJ-Hunter]

man i missed the fun. let me guess...

damm city gapers
Parking at Rabbit Ears

Wrong! I haven't said anything about RE parking. You know what they say about ASSUMING??

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

man i missed the fun. let me guess...

damm city gapers
Parking at Rabbit Ears

For the record Rabbit ears is not the best place for parking but its a hell of a lot better then Vail Pass

 

[PJ-Hunter]

For the record Rabbit ears is not the best place for parking but its a hell of a lot better then Vail Pass

He knows, just given sh*t cause I used to bitch about it ALOT. I gave up on that last season, it's really hard to fix stupid.

 

[bparks]

just look for your self wilderness.net give maps of no ride areas

 

[rhalloran]

just look for your self wilderness.net give maps of no ride areas

Thanks, that's a neat site. It does not look like the Vasquez wilderness boundary has changed - but that map (unless I'm reading it wrong) only shows _wilderness_ areas.

So, I look at Jones Pass, and the boundary for Vasquez is along the ridge northish of the north drainage - ok, that's familiar.

HOWEVER, it shows both the hiking trail out of the parking lot and Butler Gulch as "open," which we know is not the case - the hiking trail has a "no snowmobiles" sign right at the edge of the road, and Butler is closed to sleds.

Sooo...yeah. It tells a big part of the story, but not the whole story. The good news is that the wilderness area did not creep southward (according to that website, anyway) from the ridge.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

just look for your self wilderness.net give maps of no ride areas

I wouldn't trust those to save my life. I have seen wilderness people physically pull signs and move them to suit their desires. I wouldn't put it past them to change a line on their maps. The only maps that I would use are USFS maps.

I have/had the correct boundary line in my gps one year. I rode what I could of the no use boundary and the wilderness boundary on RE/Buff and tracked the line. The next year I rode the same tracked line and the signs were on the wrong side of my "tracked" line. Making the no motorized use area smaller or taking out attravtive features to ride in/on.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

I wouldn't trust those to save my life. I have seen wilderness people physically pull signs and move them to suit their desires. I wouldn't put it past them to change a line on their maps. The only maps that I would use are USFS maps.

I have/had the correct boundary line in my gps one year. I rode what I could of the no use boundary and the wilderness boundary on RE/Buff and tracked the line. The next year I rode the same tracked line and the signs were on the wrong side of my "tracked" line. Making the no motorized use area smaller or taking out attravtive features to ride in/on.

Next thing you know sledding will be allowed on a closed course with seasonal permits due to all back country closed. Damn Treehugging granola Cross Country skiers need to learn its everyones land to share not for them to take over and rule like Hitler.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Next thing you know sledding will be allowed on a closed course with seasonal permits due to all back country closed. Damn Treehugging granola Cross Country skiers need to learn its everyones land to share not for them to take over and rule like Hitler.

and SnoCat ops, backcountry skiers and snowshoers. It's horsecrap that public land can be closed off from one demographic but open to yet another.
Even in the summer, can't ride a bike or ATV on a trail/road but sheep and cattle are allowed to graze everywhere. Those fuc*in things are more damaging to the fauna than any bike or sled.

 

[bushy]

Using our semi-desert land to raise anything is a HUGE waste of taxpayer susidies. Back when it took 2 months to ship a head of lettuce or side of beef 500 miles there was a point to it. Now you can pick grapes on a friday in Bolivia and have them on your table a week later.

The truth is, feed lots back in illinois, where corn and feed crops grow like weeds without the input of bazillions of gallons of irrigation water, are so much more efficient at rasing beef it's ridiculous we even bother out here. No harm intended against the ranchers and farmers (i was a farm boy in MN) but I'm sure they know as well as anyone, it's a dying way of life in the west. When water starts to cost more than koolaid, there's a problem with supply.

Agriculture is not a friend to the health and bio diversity of the natural environment, but hey, ya gotta eat! lol It is very hypocritical to allow cows, sheep, etc. but to exclude human uses. Really shouldn't surprise you though, because things are pretty f'n bassackwards in this country. Get used to it, I guess? Your lifes great, so stick your head in the sand and leave the mess for your kids to clean up? Do what you can to restore common sense to society and government? Nah, I'm going riding. lol

 

[Dogmeat]

Using our semi-desert land to raise anything is a HUGE waste of taxpayer susidies. Back when it took 2 months to ship a head of lettuce or side of beef 500 miles there was a point to it. Now you can pick grapes on a friday in Bolivia and have them on your table a week later.

The truth is, feed lots back in illinois, where corn and feed crops grow like weeds without the input of bazillions of gallons of irrigation water, are so much more efficient at rasing beef it's ridiculous we even bother out here. No harm intended against the ranchers and farmers (i was a farm boy in MN) but I'm sure they know as well as anyone, it's a dying way of life in the west. When water starts to cost more than koolaid, there's a problem with supply.

Agriculture is not a friend to the health and bio diversity of the natural environment, but hey, ya gotta eat! lol It is very hypocritical to allow cows, sheep, etc. but to exclude human uses. Really shouldn't surprise you though, because things are pretty f'n bassackwards in this country. Get used to it, I guess? Your lifes great, so stick your head in the sand and leave the mess for your kids to clean up? Do what you can to restore common sense to society and government? Nah, I'm going riding. lol

All the "ranchers" in Wyoming are foreigners who made their money elsewhere then bought off state represenatives to basically sell them public land in the name of 'protecting the environment'. That entire state is completley shut off to anyone who isn't a multi-millionair wanna-be cowboy. It absolutley boggles my mind how much BLM land surrounds my hometown there and I can't take my dirt bike out on a single inch of it .... Oh wow, that guy owns a 50,000-acre ranch and he runs what, 15 head of cattle on it?

The environazis pay "ranchers" to put their land into 'conservation trusts' where they get subsidized to not do _ANYTHING_ with the land. No access, no grazing, NOTHING.

Its the biggest crock of sh*t I've ever seen in my life.

I'm sure CO is the same in many respects, but at least CO has a bigger population to call the government and foreign *******s out on stuff like that, Wyoming didn't has has been effectivley lost because of it.

 

[backcountryislife]

so no change in the available area to use at Jones.


Just enforcing the wilderness line that has been abused?

no, wilderness has always been wilderness... that's not what I'm talking about.

And yes... we lost most of our riding... and if you don't know where that is (NOT the wilderness, I'm actually offering to put signs up this year so more people know where it begins) then we're all good. No need to fret... we didn't lose anything that you were using anyhow!


Funny that the worthless retarded slugs that for at the circus didn't know what had changed... they're the reason it changed. Fu^^ing morons.

The same people tried to nail me for riding wilderness when the whole reason I was where I got caught in the slide was that I was trying to avoid it and was well within the boundaries. They're real geniuses.

Btw... not 1/4 of our area, 3/4 of our area.