CLOSE avalanche call!!!...
- Thread starter PowderCrew
- Start date
I actually like your term of "just harder to trigger" more than "getting better" ..obviously it won't fix everything ..this is from Craig Gordon who runs the Utah Avalanche Center
"Thanks Jed... appreciate it. To answer your question first- in order to heal our snowpack it needs to get deep. In time, through compression and more homogenous layering, we can bridge over the weak layers. Of course, that means a consistent storm track. Once the snowpack gets deep, it's harder to affect the weak layers, collapse the slope, and trigger a slide. One caveat here is if you're riding on a thin portion of the snowpack where there's rocks and bushes poking out and that's connected to thick, strong snow. Again, once you collapse the slope you're off to the races. The beauty of a normal Utah winter is eventually we turn a corner and all is good. However, this year is really unusual and these weaknesses will haunt us for a long time.
To answer Yamadoo- once the slope slides it's gonna be safer to ride than steep slopes that remain intact. That slope would be a great place to ride safely after the next storm... (note to self) Even if you do trigger a slide it'll be predictable and manageable.
Tricky part here- the bed surface is now shallow and will continue to rot away and become even more sugary, especially if we don't get snow. With a big dump this slope could be dangerous while others start to get stronger and more stable. Yep... it's gonna be a tricky year. Best to keep updated with snowpack trends, even on days you're not riding, by checking the avy advisory www.utahavalanchecenter.org"
"Thanks Jed... appreciate it. To answer your question first- in order to heal our snowpack it needs to get deep. In time, through compression and more homogenous layering, we can bridge over the weak layers. Of course, that means a consistent storm track. Once the snowpack gets deep, it's harder to affect the weak layers, collapse the slope, and trigger a slide. One caveat here is if you're riding on a thin portion of the snowpack where there's rocks and bushes poking out and that's connected to thick, strong snow. Again, once you collapse the slope you're off to the races. The beauty of a normal Utah winter is eventually we turn a corner and all is good. However, this year is really unusual and these weaknesses will haunt us for a long time.
To answer Yamadoo- once the slope slides it's gonna be safer to ride than steep slopes that remain intact. That slope would be a great place to ride safely after the next storm... (note to self) Even if you do trigger a slide it'll be predictable and manageable.
Tricky part here- the bed surface is now shallow and will continue to rot away and become even more sugary, especially if we don't get snow. With a big dump this slope could be dangerous while others start to get stronger and more stable. Yep... it's gonna be a tricky year. Best to keep updated with snowpack trends, even on days you're not riding, by checking the avy advisory www.utahavalanchecenter.org"
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Im by no means an avy "expert"... but theyre nothing new to us in our area. This year of course... is FAR from what we're used to seeing, anywhere. What we did notice after the slide, compared to where we were playing elsewhere on the ridge was the difference of the crust and lower layers on the sunny slopes as opposed to where shade was prevalent.
...and in the slide, you can see where the break along with the concentration of snow mass followed the shade line. This pic was taken around 3:00pm or so. The sun doesnt see this area very much. (where the snow stayed frozen longer) The slope out in the sun even held the lower layer somewhat. Where the top and left side let loose multiple layers.
Now as I said... that isnt "expert" analysis. I dont post it as "dynamics of an avy". But it was the only shaded hill that was played on. It was our MISTAKE at being there and not reading THIS slope as we should have. We discussed the avy threat the entire drive up and again before we hit the trail. The conditions we found on the sunny slopes we're acceptable to us (though they were still HAZARDOUS) There were no previous slides on the lower sunnier slopes (except where the snowpack had slid off above rocks), no running cracks. Our hillclimbing involved straight up and down runs, no long sidehills. NO-ONE climbed at the same time and if someone was stuck on the hill... the other sleds stayed away. Im not justifying, defending or condoning... this post was simply so everyone out ther could SEE these slid layers and conditions instead of just reading about it. My friend was luckier than I think even he realizes. It was a VERY STRONG learning experience that was walked away from... and for that I am thankful and am sharing, regardless of any second guessing or flameing. If your going to play on the hills... pick the sunny side! BE SAFE EVERYONE!
...and in the slide, you can see where the break along with the concentration of snow mass followed the shade line. This pic was taken around 3:00pm or so. The sun doesnt see this area very much. (where the snow stayed frozen longer) The slope out in the sun even held the lower layer somewhat. Where the top and left side let loose multiple layers.
Now as I said... that isnt "expert" analysis. I dont post it as "dynamics of an avy". But it was the only shaded hill that was played on. It was our MISTAKE at being there and not reading THIS slope as we should have. We discussed the avy threat the entire drive up and again before we hit the trail. The conditions we found on the sunny slopes we're acceptable to us (though they were still HAZARDOUS) There were no previous slides on the lower sunnier slopes (except where the snowpack had slid off above rocks), no running cracks. Our hillclimbing involved straight up and down runs, no long sidehills. NO-ONE climbed at the same time and if someone was stuck on the hill... the other sleds stayed away. Im not justifying, defending or condoning... this post was simply so everyone out ther could SEE these slid layers and conditions instead of just reading about it. My friend was luckier than I think even he realizes. It was a VERY STRONG learning experience that was walked away from... and for that I am thankful and am sharing, regardless of any second guessing or flameing. If your going to play on the hills... pick the sunny side! BE SAFE EVERYONE!
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Insaneboltrounder/sjohns
Well-known member
Well said and glad you posted....especially with pics....it all helps us to learn from each others experiences....I can't tell you how many times I have climbed a hill without even thinking of the conditions let alone checking. I think all of us get into situations by just having fun doing what we love. Every post and every pic of things like this just help us all to remember to be careful and hopefully to think twice...maybe call the avy lines or check the website before we go to at least get a good handle on the conditions. I personally feel risk level is up to the individual. As long as they and those who are riding with them are willing to except the consequences...good or bad.
Right now I just wish I had some !@#$ snow to actually have to worry about down here!!!!!!!!!!!
Right now I just wish I had some !@#$ snow to actually have to worry about down here!!!!!!!!!!!
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aebsledder
Well-known member
Without the loose stuff comming down, it is still possible for later snows to make it safer somehow?
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At this stage, probably the best thing would be a massive snowfall that would create enough stress on our weak snowpack to trigger a lot of slides NATURALLY. Kind of like starting with a clean slate. The trick is staying off of those slopes immediately after the storm.
PowderCrew- Thanks for sharing. Would really like to see the video.
Yeah - that's what I was thinking.
But I was wondering about the other option. Just seemed to me that added weight would only want to come down even more later on. ??
But I am not avi guy by any stretch!
Just listening with my eyes open.
Not triggered a slide yet.
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Good observation about the sun and shade Joe, that's one more tidbit of information people can lean on. If you think about what slides most often in Lamoille Canyon your sun/shade theory holds true.
I doubt your life insurance covers this. I would check. Mine will not.
Glad everything turned out for the better. Thanks for posting.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
is there a video?
I feel those slopes that receive direct sun during the colder months get a small amount of melting and refreezing thereby bonding better than those that don't receive any sunshine. The coast ranges are generally considered a little safer than the interior mountain ranges because of the temperature differential, basically the same dynamics with a different energy source, sun versus warm air.
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What does it cover?
Only if you die in public transportation?
Maybe we should check into it. ???
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Times with life insurance in Canada have really changed over the years, however I don't see the states following that strict of ruling on life and health insurance. I know in Canada some insurers are having their clients fill out paper work and get selected insurance to cover snowmobiling, dirt bikes, etc.
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CO_MapMaker
Well-known member
Funny he stopped his sled here, I would have been WOT all the way to the truck!
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Bkinz
Well-known member
Its like that around here too. We'd get snow, then itd rain, then freeze. Did this a couple times in the course of 3days. Went out the day after the storms went through and everything was sloughing off, even the 10ft banks around the parking lot. Be careful guys.
Several people have asked about a video with no response. The pics look like someone taking pictures of a video playing on a TV or video screen. IS THERE A VIDEO AND CAN YOU POST IT! Thanks.
Put yourself away $18.00 right now.Similar threads
