Chevy "Volt" downgraded from 230 mpg to 37!

[FriscoProx]

Another "green" fraud and pathetic waste of tax payer money:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...010191855/Volt-Fraud-At-Government-Motors.htm

 

[MORSNO]

Once again there is no substitute for cubic inches! A turbo doesn't hurt either! Turbos need to be advertised as being green, they take waste exhaust and make horsepower.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Another "green" fraud and pathetic waste of tax payer money:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...010191855/Volt-Fraud-At-Government-Motors.htm

x2...lying decieving FORD WANNABES...gm is the dollar store of retail..junk building hand out leeches

 

[christopher]

 

[ruffryder]

Another "green" fraud and pathetic waste of tax payer money:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...010191855/Volt-Fraud-At-Government-Motors.htm

Great, so this retarded article came over here too....

Government sucks, blah blah blah.. don't worry if the numbers or the argument doesn't make sense....

I think there should be an IQ test to write articles these days.

 

[FriscoProx]

Great, another liberal troll who can't deal with facts and has to call names makes it here too...

 

[ruffryder]

Great, another liberal troll who can't deal with facts and has to call names makes it here too...

Calling the article retarded is calling names? If so, my bad...

What facts? The fact that the 37 MPG is only when the gasoline motor is charging the battery pack? The fact that the higher number was the equivalent MPG using the battery pack first and then the gasoline motor till the gas tank was empty? The fact that the volt was NEVER going to be an all-electric car.

What facts are we talking about again???

We heard GM's then-CEO Fritz Henderson claim the Volt would get 230 miles per gallon in city conditions. Popular Mechanics found the Volt to get about 37.5 mpg in city driving, and Motor Trend reports: "Without any plugging in, (a weeklong trip to Grandma's house) should return fuel economy in the high 30s to low 40s."

umm... the whole point about the volt was that you can plug it in. That is what makes the Volt different then other hybrids... Seems odd to test the vehicle like this. Maybe not, if you assume that the writer did not understand where the original 230 MPG number came from in the first place. It is the equivalent MPG of the battery storage and the gasoline engine.

That's not quite true. The gasoline engine has been found to be more than a range-extender for the battery. Volt engineers are now admitting that when the vehicle's lithium-ion battery pack runs down and at speeds near or above 70 mph, the Volt's gasoline engine will directly drive the front wheels along with the electric motors. That's not charging the battery — that's driving the car.

ummm... the volt is a series hybrid, there is no drive shaft that connects the engine to the wheels. The engine power turns a generator (large alternator) and that charges the batteries, and then a motor uses the energy in the batteries to power the wheels. The volt will never have the ability to directly drive the front wheels with the gasoline engine.. What is with the "volt engineers are now admitting" stuff? It seems to make the reader believe that they were hiding something in the first place?

I thought this concept was set in stone quite a while ago? It is pretty efficient, and is also how most trains and heavy equipment operate too.., well without the electrical energy storage part..

 

[FriscoProx]

How about the fact that GM grossly (fraudulently would be a better word) mislead the public and its shareholders on this cars mileage to acquire gov't grants and a $7,500 tax payer subsidy per vehicle. Not to mention all the free marketing with our Toolbag in Chief photo op.

# Johnson Controls: $299.2 million
# A123Systems: $249.1 million
# General Motors: $240 million
# Dow Kokam: $161 million
# Compact Power, on behalf of LG Chem: $151.4 million
# EnerDel: $118.5 million
# Saft America: $95.5 million
# Delphi Automotive Systems: $89.3 million
# Polypore subsidiary Celgard: $49.2 million
# UQM Technologies: $45.1 million
# Magna E-Car Systems of America: $40 million
# Exide Technologies with Axion Power International: $34.3 million
# Smith Electric: $10 million

 

[ruffryder]

How about the fact that GM grossly (fraudulently would be a better word) mislead the public and its shareholders on this cars mileage

I don't think they did. Most people just didn't understand the numbers that they were using. Everytime I heard an MPG number about the volt it was an "equivalent" value. How much MPG does a vehicle have if it uses no gasoline? Ex, the volt during city driving... ??

The calculation for the "equivalent" MPG was made using a full charge on the battery pack, and then using all the gasoline as well. There are two system modes on this vehicle. One is electric only (infinite MPG?) and the other is the gasoline motor (37 MPG). Why are people only using latter of those numbers?

Do you not understand the technical difference of these two driving modes? I am not trying to be mean, but this is a pretty technical vehicle, meaning it is complicated in trying to define its usage characteristics in terms created for a different type of vehicle.

# Johnson Controls: $299.2 million
# A123Systems: $249.1 million
# General Motors: $240 million
# Dow Kokam: $161 million
# Compact Power, on behalf of LG Chem: $151.4 million
# EnerDel: $118.5 million
# Saft America: $95.5 million
# Delphi Automotive Systems: $89.3 million
# Polypore subsidiary Celgard: $49.2 million
# UQM Technologies: $45.1 million
# Magna E-Car Systems of America: $40 million
# Exide Technologies with Axion Power International: $34.3 million
# Smith Electric: $10 million

What is all this stuff?

 

[ruffryder]

Here is a better article from the NY Times, with some actual quotes from people too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/business/12auto.html

The rating number, based on methodology drafted by the Environmental Protection Agency, is somewhat abstract, one auto specialist said, given that much of the city driving of electric vehicles will rely solely on the battery charge.

“Depending upon how you use the Volt, it can get mileage approaching that or much less,” Jack Nerad, executive editorial director of Kelley Blue Book, said. “It almost becomes an abstract number. If you are the Volt target guy who is driving under 40 miles per day, then theoretically your miles per gallon is infinite.”

 

[FriscoProx]

Those were all the companies that got federal grants to help GM develop the Volt.

And the little incidentals they conspicuously left out. How much is electric only mileage affected by, ambient temperature (all calcs done at a constant 74*), running air conditioning or heater, running stereo, phone chargers, head lights...this thing is little more than a glorified golf cart.

And I really don't care about the difference in technology or have the desire to research it because its price is so ridiculously high that its not worthy of consideration. Why would anyone when they can get a TDI Jetta that out performs it in every way and 45-55 mpg for 1/2 price. Or any of the many Honda Civics and Fits, Versas, Mazda3s, Forte, Golf... for 1/3 of the price and requires none of the environmentally sound processes of having the Chinese strip mine the rare Earth Elements out of the ground for the batteries.

And about that last part, just what is the plan when China decides to no longer export (like they just did with Japan) those rare Earth elements needed in all these batteries.

 

[ruffryder]

Those were all the companies that got federal grants to help GM develop the Volt.

cool. Do you think that the advances in technology and manufacturing that will occur and have occurred with the car will not be usable in any other cars or industries in the future?

And the little incidentals they conspicuously left out. How much is electric only mileage affected by, ambient temperature (all calcs done at a constant 74*), running air conditioning or heater, running stereo, phone chargers, head lights...this thing is little more than a glorified golf cart.

You should take a look at the EPA standards that are used for testing vehicles. Note that most of these impact regular vehicles as well.

And I really don't care about the difference in technology or have the desire to research it because its price is so ridiculously high that its not worthy of consideration.

cool, glad you felt the need to post a thread about it though... I guess this means you don't want to understand how GM came to the 235 MPG claims then? At least you are able to offer your opinion on how wrong they are...

Why would anyone when they can get a TDI Jetta that out performs it in every way and 45-55 mpg for 1/2 price. Or any of the many Honda Civics and Fits, Versas, Mazda3s, Forte, Golf... for 1/3 of the price and requires none of the environmentally sound processes of having the Chinese strip mine the rare Earth Elements out of the ground for the batteries.

You should compute the costs of owning and operating the vehicle for 5 years and compare it to other vehicles. It would be interesting to see how much money you would save if you drove the vehicle in a manor of its intended target audience.

And about that last part, just what is the plan when China decides to no longer export (like they just did with Japan) those rare Earth elements needed in all these batteries.

The same thing when OPEC stops selling oil? This is a global economy and we all rely on each other for parts for our infrastructure.

 

[ruffryder]

You know what, forget this thread... everyone go on your merry way

blah blah, government sucks, blah blah, gm sucks, blah blah, we know everything, blah blah, I have all the answer to all the problems, blah blah, would you like fries with that.. blah.

Is this the line we all should tote?

 

[shonuff]

You know what, forget this thread... everyone go on your merry way

blah blah, government sucks, blah blah, gm sucks, blah blah, we know everything, blah blah, I have all the answer to all the problems, blah blah, would you like fries with that.. blah.

Is this the line we all should tote?

Dang, you feel passionate about this POS don't ya? So are you going to buy one?

 

[Jizzo]

I personaly dont like this car, or GM for that matter but Ruffryder basiclly just owned everyone one that had a comment about it.

Read the facts people. All of them. One article from one persons point of view is not the whole story. It amazes me what people will read, believe, and then regurgitate to others.

Like it or not this car is going to be a big part of our future. I for one dont like the whole electric car idea becuase of the batteries they use. Cleaner more efficent gas or diesel engines or variations there of are what Im interested in.

Regardless if things dont change now, and drasticlly for the matter were not going to be around to bitch about it.

 

[swampwater]

Sheeese what a thread, are you guys reading ruffys posts. The volt can't be a POS it has a bowtie on it. This vehicle was designed for the person who unplugs it in the morning and drives 5 to 30 miles to work than 5 to 30 miles back home and plugs it back in. This car was not designed to jump on the freeway and travel between Seattle and Portland any more than a frreightliner was designed to use as a taxi in downtown Seattle. If you want to go to Portland get yourself a Camaro or a Charger. I would not buy one but I don't live in the city and I put over 20,000 miles per year on my vehicle, if I lived in the urban areas and only drove 20 to 40 miles a day it might be worth a try. Swampy

 

[swampwater]

I personaly dont like this car, or GM for that matter but Ruffryder basiclly just owned everyone one that had a comment about it.

Read the facts people. All of them. One article from one persons point of view is not the whole story. It amazes me what people will read, believe, and then regurgitate to others.

Like it or not this car is going to be a big part of our future. I for one dont like the whole electric car idea becuase of the batteries they use. Cleaner more efficent gas or diesel engines or variations there of are what Im interested in.

Regardless if things dont change now, and drasticlly for the matter were not going to be around to bitch about it.

You certainly have that right on!! Swampy

 

[FriscoProx]

The car was never the point of the thread. It was to point out yet another example of the taxpayers getting ripped off for more subsidized eco-bull****. Real free markets fix this kind of crap by penalizing those involved but not in this delusional era of State Capitalism. The tax payer gets screwed time and again for every Golden Sachs or JP Morgan banker, AIG Insurance underwriter, Fannie Mae mortgage bundler and now Chevy engineer that does something stupid? And that's not even getting into the things the Gov't is already over their head in like promising entitlements we can't afford, funding wars and providing Foreign Aid with money we don't have.

Specific to the car, nobody figured out it wasn't marketable as a 40 mile per charge vehicle and needed a gas engine to supplement its range before blowing billions of dollars on it? Now its just a way overpriced POS hybrid that can't compete in an open marketplace with other hybrids and economy cars that earned their right to be there by providing value and performance.

 

[HawkShot99]

You should compute the costs of owning and operating the vehicle for 5 years and compare it to other vehicles. It would be interesting to see how much money you would save if you drove the vehicle in a manor of its intended target audience.

So how much will your yearly home electric bill increase to keep the car charged? That is not free. And were does that power come from? Most likely burning oil or coal.

 

[ruffryder]

So how much will your yearly home electric bill increase to keep the car charged? That is not free.

You are correct, it isn't free. Why don't you do the calculations and figure it out?

And were does that power come from? Most likely burning oil or coal.

probably from coal, at least 50% of it from coal, as that is the US distribution. Coal is cleaner then gasoline though... economies of scale and all that...