Charging a BatteryLess System? What??

[Sumac Motorsports]

I know it sounds stupid, but has anyone ever charged the BatteryLess System on a newer Cat. I have an 08 M1000 & yea it pulls over really hard for the first couple of pulls while it charges the system to get the injection working. It would be nice to give the system a little "jump start" so on the first pull it will fire, I swear the rope is going to snap after it sits for a while & I go to start it. I know it sounds stupid but wouldn't it be nice to have two 6volt latern batteries hooked together, have a 2 prong trailer connector mounted somewhere on the sled, plug in the lantern batteries, check your gas & oil, unhook the batteries, give it one pull & presto its running. Yea, Yea, Yea, I know what your going to say "Grow some & pull the thing over!!" but if you have ever pulled over an M1000 after its been in the trailer for 2 days & its -18 at 9000 ft, you know what I mean. I think I am going to replace the stock rope with the ballistic version just for peace of mind, but it would still be nice to for it to start on the first pull. Any help would be great, Thanks

 

[Polar Express]

interesting idea, you could wire in a 12V cig lighter output, and if it was not diode protected, you could add the juice backwards to the system. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a capacitor that we 'charge' when we pull the 'cat's over a few times? What about pulling over the engine slowly for a few pulls, not trying to 'explode', just roll it over, just to get things moving? And then pull a little quicker? My wife's M7 can be a little stiff if its been a couple weeks, but not too bad. I'm also a bigger guy, so I don't mind. (I actually want to start hers first thing, so she doesn't get tired or risk a pulled something-or-other) but she's really skinny.

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

Charging the BatteryLess System?

Is there some wires from the charging system that could be spliced into to trick it into thinking it is charging the system??

 

[backcountryislife]

"charging" the system isn't the issue, you'd accomplish more by just preheating the motor.

If the battery-less efi was the problem, it would never pull over quick regardless of the temp.

I'm sure you could use some type of block heater that would accomplish what you're trying to do.

 

[89sandman]

i know when i first go to start my sled i pull it over one "clunk" at a time for 3 or 4 full pulls until it loosens up and i can get a full pull. would rip my arms off if i didn't!

 

[likkerpig]

My brother had a block heater put in his old MC800, that made it turn over real nice on those COLD mornings.

That's an interesting theory on precharging the batteryless system, just for the sake of discussion and the desire to learn, I'd like to know more and see this keep going.

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

BatteryLess Charging

89Sandman, after it's clunked over for 3 or 4 pulls will it start on the first hard pull? I have never tried to roll it over easy & then tried to start.

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

Cold? or No Power?

I don't feel it's a being cold problem, if you shut it off late at night & start it up early am it will fire on the first pull. It pulls hard, real hard when its cold but it will fire on the first pull if it sits for a short time. If it sits a few days it takes 2 sometimes 3 pulls to get to fire. I can say I was impressed about a week ago when it started on the 3rd pull after I fogged it last spring & it sat all summer.

 

[backcountryislife]

89Sandman, after it's clunked over for 3 or 4 pulls will it start on the first hard pull? I have never tried to roll it over easy & then tried to start.

That's how I do my 1000, 1-3 slow pulls depending on how pissed off it is, then 1 hard pull, it goes 1st or 2nd hard pull.

 

[backcountryislife]

I don't feel it's a being cold problem, if you shut it off late at night & start it up early am it will fire on the first pull. It pulls hard, real hard when its cold but it will fire on the first pull if it sits for a short time. If it sits a few days it takes 2 sometimes 3 pulls to get to fire. I can say I was impressed about a week ago when it started on the 3rd pull after I fogged it last spring & it sat all summer.

The thing is though, the efi has no battery to charge, so the sled could care less how long you've had it off from an electronics standpoint. 30 seconds is the same as 30 days to the sled, if the stator is not running, there is no power.

I would think it's more likely fuel draining back or a similar issue.

 

[89sandman]

89Sandman, after it's clunked over for 3 or 4 pulls will it start on the first hard pull? I have never tried to roll it over easy & then tried to start.

yes will usually fire on first or 2nd hard pull. i had a 02 mt cat that was sooooo hard to pull over on a cold morning it would eat recoils right and left. finally ended up putting a block heater on it. my M will get extra tight on cold mornings, maybe 10 or more pulls before its ready to hard pull, but nothing like the mt. cat used to!

 

[mountainguy]

I know it sounds stupid, but has anyone ever charged the BatteryLess System on a newer Cat. I have an 08 M1000 & yea it pulls over really hard for the first couple of pulls while it charges the system to get the injection working. It would be nice to give the system a little "jump start" so on the first pull it will fire, I swear the rope is going to snap after it sits for a while & I go to start it. I know it sounds stupid but wouldn't it be nice to have two 6volt latern batteries hooked together, have a 2 prong trailer connector mounted somewhere on the sled, plug in the lantern batteries, check your gas & oil, unhook the batteries, give it one pull & presto its running. Yea, Yea, Yea, I know what your going to say "Grow some & pull the thing over!!" but if you have ever pulled over an M1000 after its been in the trailer for 2 days & its -18 at 9000 ft, you know what I mean. I think I am going to replace the stock rope with the ballistic version just for peace of mind, but it would still be nice to for it to start on the first pull. Any help would be great, Thanks

What you are doing on the first pull when its cold is building fuel pressure and it starts the second. So if you want to precharge anything it would be your fuel pump. I like your thinkin . Hope this helps

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

Charging the fuel pump

Is the fuel pump electric? Can the system be "jumped", turn the key on, let the fuel pump catch up or prime the system & presto it's running on the first pull?

 

[bradburck]

X2

"charging" the system isn't the issue, you'd accomplish more by just preheating the motor.

If the battery-less efi was the problem, it would never pull over quick regardless of the temp.

I'm sure you could use some type of block heater that would accomplish what you're trying to do.

This is due to the fact that motor is tough to turn over, not the EFI system. You've just got to create a little heat to get those big A$$ pistons to create a little heat. Block heater, or something to heat the cylinders is about the only way to go! Hope this helps... Same ideas behind keeping planes warm in Alaska with motor blankets... not cause of the fuel (not all anyway) but it's cause they're a bi#ch to turn over!

 

[Dam Dave]

What you are doing on the first pull when its cold is building fuel pressure and it starts the second. So if you want to precharge anything it would be your fuel pump. I like your thinkin . Hope this helps

yes, exactly right, when you pull the rope you are turning the crankshaft, that allows electric current to flow from the stator to the fuel pump and the ignition system , this will pressurize or charge the the fuel rail. if the sled has ran recently the rail will have pressure trapped in it and the sled will start on the first or second pull, when the sled sits overnight the fuel pressure bleeds off and it may take 3 to ??? pulls to build up enough fuel pressure to start, now after the sled has sat outside overnight its very cold, oil is thick, clearances are tighter, there is just more friction and it pulls over slower so it takes more pulls to loosen things up and also spin fast enough to send current to the ignition system and the fuel pump, so a block heater would help more than a battery, Cat sells a block heater just for this purpose, its in the catalog, on those cold mornings I just pull the sled over slow a few times, I am not even trying to start, just loosen things up, I really don't think you could turn it over fast enough to start on those cold mornings even if you had fuel pressure

 

[Dam Dave]

I don't feel it's a being cold problem, if you shut it off late at night & start it up early am it will fire on the first pull. It pulls hard, real hard when its cold but it will fire on the first pull if it sits for a short time. If it sits a few days it takes 2 sometimes 3 pulls to get to fire. I can say I was impressed about a week ago when it started on the 3rd pull after I fogged it last spring & it sat all summer.

you answered your own question right there, it starts hard when its cold outside, but started on the 3rd pull after sitting all summer, I assume it was also not real cold when you started it this fall, mine started on the second pull this fall and I never fog anything, its all about the the temperature of the engine, anything than will add heat or trap heat will help it start easier

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

Going to go start

Mine has been sitting for a week now, I'm going to go get it started, its like 35F here now & it's sitting inside but not in a heated shed. I'm going to give it a try with the roll over slowly idea & report back, Thanks, for all the help, I think I am getting closer to starting it on the first pull hot or cold. Thanks.

 

[fuzz]

I had some issues with my 09 M8 on cold startiing. When I can get a good pull over the first couple of times it would start on the 2nd or third pull. But when it sits at 20 below over nite I have to "chug- chug" slow pull over a few times before I can give it a good pull to start. After 4-5 chugs it would become flooded and I'd have to have the wife crack the throttle to get it to go.
My dealer said the cold oil coatiing the cylinders is why it pulls hard when extremely cold. He suggested leaving the key off and slow pull it a couple of times which will wipe the cylinder walls. Then key on and a couple of easier good pulls should fire it off. Sounds logical.

 

[Sumac Motorsports]

Started

Went to start, clunked it over for 3 pulls, still had to pull it hard twice to get it to fire, WOW how the rope doesn't break is incredible. I know what ever I do it will still pull hard, but i'm getting the feeling that its more of a lack of fuel pressure than a being cold issue. It's not that I can't pull it 2 or 3 times it would just be a lot easier on the recoil. I know on some big bike engines when you turn on the key you can hear the fuel pump running for a second or two and they seem to start right up even if their cold. Does any one have a fuel pressure gage that they can look at when it is getting started, this might help solve this mystery. Thanks.

 

[Rprecision]

If my wife can start her M7 cold you Sallies should !

Cold morning, yeah I dont move around all loose and limber either!

This aint minaaasoda trail riding ya know !

Both the M's usally start in the first three pulls

The old 440 you can start with one finger, cold