Charge temp vs HP

[ryan7]

Hi,

Anyone know how much charge temp affects the HP on a turbo sled? This is regarding a water to air intercooler install on an MCX 270 Nytro. Does cold air produce more HP than a hot charge? Do you have to turn the boost down for a cold charge to prevent an increase in HP, therefore fuel requirements?

Is there a benefit in a colder charge at less PSI vs hot charge with more PSI?

Let me know what you think,

Ryan

 

[gunnerthesnowman]

Hi,

Anyone know how much charge temp affects the HP on a turbo sled? This is regarding a water to air intercooler install on an MCX 270 Nytro. Does cold air produce more HP than a hot charge?
Yes
Do you have to turn the boost down for a cold charge to prevent an increase in HP, therefore fuel requirements?
Yes
Is there a benefit in a colder charge at less PSI vs hot charge with more PSI?
Less stress on the motor if you are running less boost to get the same HP!

Let me know what you think,

I am getting my air to air intercooler converted over to a water to air for a few reasons.
1) to run lower boost to get same HP
2) with a lower IAT you get better throttle responce
3) to keep the IAT more consistant , eg / long pulls / boondocking in trees( no air movement OR hood covered with snow)

I think this is going to be a most have in a turbo kit the is being built for mountain riding.


Ryan

Gunner

 

[relentless rider]

? One yes
? Two yes
?three yes.

 

[pylon]

if these cool the air so much i wonder if a guy could pull air from under the hood ?

 

[ryan7]

intercooler

So, the MCX already has the cooler under the tunnel but i am not sure how effective it is.

Yes, if you could pull from under the hood it would be great on the deep days when the intake keeps plugging off. That is a downfall with the MCX.

Ryan

 

[NM]

The thing that most people don't realize is that when the temp in a sleds intercooler starts to rise, there is no way to cool it down without air flow. Where could air flow come from when bombing through the trees or meadows at 30 mph ground speed and the hood covered in pow.
Our Nytro intercoolers would get so hot that you couldn't put your hand on them and the sled would go rich in the mid while in boost.
With a constant circulation of ice cold coolant running through the airbox, it is impossible to heat soak it no matter how fast or slow the sled is traveling or how much snow is covering the hood.
Just ice cold all the time.

 

[boostedballz]

Given the application on mountain sleds this definitely makes sense. Has anyone done any air to air/ water to air before and after intake temps? I think it will work just wondering if its drastic enough to spend the $ to switch.

LL

 

[TBird]

I simple fan under the IC that draws cool air thru it makes wonder!

 

[Winter Nutz]

does anyone actually know if the cooler under the tunnel for MCX is doing much? i would think it would help alot once the hood is plugged up with snow.

 

[gunnerthesnowman]

I simple fan under the IC that draws cool air thru it makes wonder!

Yes ,i could see that helping a little some of the time , but know wheres near as efficient as a water to air intercooler on a sled with the intercooler having it own tunnel "U" cooler coolant system.

 

[gunnerthesnowman]

Given the application on mountain sleds this definitely makes sense. Has anyone done any air to air/ water to air before and after intake temps? I think it will work just wondering if its drastic enough to spend the $ to switch.

LL

Yes too the air to air , soon for the water to air , an as Neil and other that have ran the water to air are saying they have to turn the boost down 4lbs to pull the same clutching says it all , no # needed for me to switch , but i will have them once i run it , standalone ECU,s are good for something.

 

[TBird]

Yes ,i could see that helping a little some of the time , but know wheres near as efficient as a water to air intercooler on a sled with the intercooler having it own tunnel "U" cooler coolant system.

Coming winter will tell, i have one of each.
I do not disagree, water to air is more efficient, i'm sure, but i truly believe that an frontmount Turbo is more in need of one then an MCX, not saying an MCX also would benefit of one.

Using Tapatalk on Android ICS pad.

 

[gunnerthesnowman]

does anyone actually know if the cooler under the tunnel for MCX is doing much? i would think it would help alot once the hood is plugged up with snow.

Coming winter will tell, i have one of each.
I do not disagree, water to air is more efficient, i'm sure, but i truly believe that an frontmount Turbo is more in need of one then an MCX, not saying an MCX also would benefit of one.

Using Tapatalk on Android ICS pad.

I know Mitch ( use to have Synergy sled kits) use to run the tunnel intercooler exchangers ( air to snow ) The one downfall was the increase in charge air volume between turbo and engine inlet and the air to surface contact area is small for the size of the cooler.

 

[NM]

Coming winter will tell, i have one of each.
I do not disagree, water to air is more efficient, i'm sure, but i truly believe that an frontmount Turbo is more in need of one then an MCX, not saying an MCX also would benefit of one.

Using Tapatalk on Android ICS pad.

As you know, charge temps are relative to engine load, turbo size, and altitude.
For people that never ride in deep snow, or situations that hard load the motor for any length of time, then a water to air would not be needed. For people that ride in the BC mountains, it makes a huge difference.
MCX uses a small turbo that has to work very hard at high elevation and therefore creates a lot of heat. Now many guys have gone to 174 tracks and in some cases 3inch paddles which creates massive end load.
The tunnel cooler on the MCX adds a lot of cooling to the charge process, but they also use a small intercooler on the Nytro that is not getting any air flow.
Most Nytro guys that I have seen in BC are running over 15 lbs of boost so if equal power can be made running less boost, then the turbo also does not work as hard and creates less heat. It really is a situation where less is more.

 

[SylvanLaker]

As you know, charge temps are relative to engine load, turbo size, and altitude.
For people that never ride in deep snow, or situations that hard load the motor for any length of time, then a water to air would not be needed. For people that ride in the BC mountains, it makes a huge difference.
MCX uses a small turbo that has to work very hard at high elevation and therefore creates a lot of heat. Now many guys have gone to 174 tracks and in some cases 3inch paddles which creates massive end load.
The tunnel cooler on the MCX adds a lot of cooling to the charge process, but they also use a small intercooler on the Nytro that is not getting any air flow.
Most Nytro guys that I have seen in BC are running over 15 lbs of boost so if equal power can be made running less boost, then the turbo also does not work as hard and creates less heat. It really is a situation where less is more.

Neil I know we talked about the PL setup and we figured the gains wouldn't be as substantial on this setup. Have you installed some anyway. Looking to see how it goes..

 

[NM]

Neil I know we talked about the PL setup and we figured the gains wouldn't be as substantial on this setup. Have you installed some anyway. Looking to see how it goes..

We have not done a PL kit yet, but you are exactly right, it may not need it depending on the type of riding.
Some people need bigger tracks and some don't, some need coupling suspensions and some don't. Some need Rods and Pistons, and some don't.

It is like any situation, not everyone needs a water to air, but the people who like to be on the gas all day in deep pow should at least look at the option.
The other way that I look at is, there is no way that water to air could be worse than air to air.
It's not like adding a bigger turbo to fix the top end and making the bottom end worse, a good intercooler works better everywhere.
In my opinion a water to air has no drawbacks aside from adding a few lbs.

 

[Winter Nutz]

I had one of those synergy phazers. that phazer was not reliable but it ripped way faster that anyone would ever expect , drag raced an mcx nytro with 240 kit on it and we were dead even. was laggy, think all phazers were tho.

 

[Tarzannr1]

I simple fan under the IC that draws cool air thru it makes wonder!

I have mounted a fan over the intercooler,its an Apex fan and i turned the fan the other way so it blows thru the intercooler.
and with the extra vent in the hood that also help with cool air to the intercoler
And i can turn it on by a switch.
Haven`t tested it yet but i think this will help a little bit
.

 

[TBird]

I have mounted a fan over the intercooler,its an Apex fan and i turned the fan the other way so it blows thru the intercooler.
and with the extra vent in the hood that also help with cool air to the intercoler
And i can turn it on by a switch.
Haven`t tested it yet but i think this will help a little bit
.

The Apex fan is a joke .
Hope it works, but if i were you i would put a better fan on it.

Using Tapatalk on Android ICS pad.

 

[kinger9]

1hp for every 10 degrees cooler intake air. So if your air to air is plugged up and your getting 200 degree air and you convert to water to air and it runs at 30 degrees its roughly 17hp.