Buffalo Pass questions

[mannix]

OK, I'm confused, and I did search.

Long story short - I catskied with Steamboat Powdercats a few years ago on B-Pass. Will not go back.

With them.

The terrain was good, and Buffpass certainly gets the snow; for me, the guides ruined the trip. We had 3, one was a nice guy, just a skier. The other two were uppity "we're locals" with a crappy attitude.

We went westish from town, then northish on a paved road, which took us to the parking area. They had their temporary garages set up for the snowcats.

Were we roughly here?

Google Maps link

So - I have two bits of confusion. One, is that the right way to get there?
Two, can we ride there? At the Denver Expo yesterday, I was talking to a vendor who told me that Steamboat Powdercats had exclusive rights to the B Pass area, and that snowmobiles could not ride there.

Did not sound right to me. I know there's been tension with them in the past, but NO sleds in B-Pass? Huh? Whatever.

That trip was so-so - Christmas 2004 or 2005, ~4' of new snow at the pass, we had a great day, with one exception - near the top of the 2nd ridge from the parking area, we passed two guys on a sled. Out of gas.

The guides laughed at them and left them there.

It was 2-3pm, ~10F and a forecast low of -reallycoldF - it was not cool. The guests ganged up on the guides at the top, we went back to get them, but they were gone - someone had gotten them gas, thank goodness.

Anyway - I think there's probably good riding (skiing, for me) closer to my house (SW Denver), but I want to go to B Pass because it gets a lot of snow - and because I'm still pretty ticked at them for that little stunt.

During that day of skiing, we saw 2-3 snowmobile skiers. They were out there, but they were not intrusive, waved, friendly - shrug, the -guests- took absolutely no issue with them.

Thanks for any insight!



Iain

 

[shonuff]

The other two were uppity "we're locals" with a crappy attitude.

That s****nit cracks me up!! Back when I used to snowboard you'd get a employee and they thought they owned the mountain. They asked were I'm from and I'd say Denver (born and raised) and I'd ask them them back. They always said "Local". Ya local for Fuucckkin two months from Wisconsin. Chodes!

 

[Mnt bound]

Yes you can still ride on Buff pass. I have not been up there in 2 years. I think you have to buy a parking pass or use area pass now. Mayby the best info could come from one of the dealers in steamboat. Extreme Power Sports
(970) 879-9175 or Planet Power Sports (970) 879-5138. I don't recall the USFS number off hand but you may need to go to them to get your pass if required. The reason I quit riding up there is because of the "additude" of the snowcat guys. It always seemed like we were trespassing on public land, Sucks; But great snow.

 

[mannix]

Great, thanks!

Yeah, they're not bashful when being jerks to the snowmobile skiers (and maybe snowmobiles proper, although every sled - all 2 or 3 - was transporting skiers).

Honestly, that's kinda what makes me want to go back, and if given the opportunity, I'll tell them that I reallocated my skiing (lifts, snowcats, helicopters) funds & put them toward a snowmobile *because* of their feces-like attitude. I am _planning_ on using the sled as a ski lift - lots of people seem to think I'll like riding it more than riding it to ski, we shall see.

I do highly recommend Wasatch Powderbirds, though - they're a spectacular organization, and while there is tension between the BC skiers (no sleds in their use-area), they're wholly professional about it.

Shrug. We'll see. It'll certainly be fun.



Iain

 

[Zoomie]

The powdercats have exclusive rights only to the lower area in the tree's between Dry Lake Campground and Rocky Flats, above that is where most people would want to sled anyway ...unless your wanting to ski in the tree's.

Between Dry Lake and Rocky Flats no one except the powder cats are allowed to go off the groomed trail. If you get caught riding off of the trail below Rocky Flats, you will get ticketed. The last two seasons the USFS has been hitting the area hard and heavy. They have been ticketing everyone from unsafe riding, no permit, to parking on the road below the parking area.

Last season the USFS made the Buffalo Pass area a special permit area. You need to fill out a little tag and attach it to the handle bars on your sled while riding there. Last year they said this coming season they would make it a fee area also. I spoke with someone from the USFS a few weeks ago and asked about the fee, and they said it looks like they will not be implementing the fee this season.

 

[Zoomie]

Forgot to say this... Powder Cats is a buisiness, they are only interested in profits, and because of this they don't like sledders to take any buisiness away from them whether its going into the tree's to ride, not using them because you have a sled, or just annoying the skiiers. This pisses me off that someone can puchase a permit from the USFS, then bar public acces to said area. This is public property, we pay taxes to maintain it, and it should be open to the public ...everyone ...multi-use!

 

[mannix]

The powdercats have exclusive rights only to the lower area in the tree's between Dry Lake Campground and Rocky Flats, above that is where most people would want to sled anyway ...unless your wanting to ski in the tree's.

Between Dry Lake and Rocky Flats no one except the powder cats are allowed to go off the groomed trail. If you get caught riding off of the trail below Rocky Flats, you will get ticketed.

OK, that makes more sense. Is there a map which shows Dry Lake & Rocky Flats? I'm sure it is marked OK out there, just trying to get my head around it.

It'd better be marked if they're giving tickets.

Anyway, thanks! I agree - does not seem right for them to be able to pressure everyone else out of the area. I do think they've got the right to run their business on public land, but not with the exclusion of others.

I heard about some story where SP was inspiring a ranger to ticket sled-skiers seen exchanging money in the lot; SP tried to make a case for their operating a business without a permit or some such nonsense.

Dunno. We'll just sort out the financial details out of their sight. I don't think "splitting gas" constitutes "permitless business."



Iain

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Steamboat Powder Cats is nothing but a bunch of flaming azzhats! They can kiss my azz, if they don't like me they can try to catch me.

I do my part to help them out though!

 

[routter]

Some of the above info is right....some not.

1. You have, for many years now, needed a free day-use tag to ride off-trail on Buff. If you go often enough you can pick up one valid for the season at the USFS office.


2. The generalization that PC's owns the rights to everything below Rocky Flats is false. Some you may ride some you may not.

3. The broad rule for riding is: NO Buff mountain, NO Soda Mountain, NO many areas to the NW of the road below Rocky Flats.

4. However, many of the motorized-non motorized riding areas intermingle. The USFS in Steamboat (on us 40 on your left as you enter town near the shell station) has maps. There are also boudary guides laminated and posted near the "roads" all over Buff.



Finally, if you are a skier you should be thanking PC not hating them. It is perfectly legal to use the roads they build to sled-access skiing. Meaning....you can ski the same stuff they charge $400/day for the cost of a tank of gas.


I, however, don't care about the skiing and would be happy to have all the pass to ourselves. PC claims themselves to be our saviors for the road-building, but Routt County Powderriders has they're own cat suckas.

 

[bushy]

Here's a map, I think it's current, correct me if i'm wrong. They get the Blue areas. No pass is needed to ride Buff pass from the south or east direction. If you come up from the SB side you need a pass to cross their blue area. Also, come April first, when their permit runs out, you can ride their area too, I believe. I have never gotten down to that area so I don't know first hand, but I am sick of seeing the blue areas expand. Let them go ski their precious wilderness they love so much! Oh that's right, they're lazy, and hey, that's fine, i'm done with the whole "climb the mtn, ski down the mtn" crap too, but they shouldn't get to pick and choose what motorized use is acceptable on public land as it suits them. Everytime they get away with this crap, they get a little stronger and more greedy, and don't think they'll stop until they get it all. You watch, the day will come when a sled can only access certain areas if it has skis strapped to it. Join the fight against this kind of selfish use of our public lands by supporting our sledding orgs with your dollars!

 

[mannix]

Finally, if you are a skier you should be thanking PC not hating them. It is perfectly legal to use the roads they build to sled-access skiing. Meaning....you can ski the same stuff they charge $400/day for the cost of a tank of gas.

That's spectacular - we can use "their" roads, we just have to keep the sleds on them?

Excellent. That's perfect, really.

Thanks for all the insight! The cat-roads will make the tow-up easy. I don't hate Powdercats, I just did not like the holier-than-them attitude they had. Shrug. I don't want to rain on their parade, but the skiing WAS good - and I want more.

Thanks again!



Iain

 

[Steamboat-RN]

You have the correct parking area. Limited parking and they DO ticket violators. Stop by the sign at the trailhead for the most recent restrictions. The numbers of "hybrid skiers" has exploded over the past few years and I'm glad. The more people that shun PowderCats, the less profitable it will be. We can all hope they fold up and leave. Without their pressure on the F.S. the area might revert back to the way it was.