BO's Health Care is one step closer

[Super B]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

Looks like we are going to be screwed shortly...

 

[Ollie]

there was never a doubt it was coming out of comittee.
They have to meld the 3 congress bill and put it up for a full senate vote.
That is the big one.
If it doesn't have a public option a lot of dems won't vote for it, if it does have a public option no republicans and most blue dog dems won't vote for it.
That is why Reid is talking about using the nuclear option, however, it has been pointed out that it could very well be unconstitutional for him to use it in this way, it was designed to be used on spending bills only and specifically bars it's use for passage of legislation.

This next phase is going to be the final straw.
It will either pass and the country will explode or it won't pass and it's totally dead, at which point the finger pointing will begin.

 

[blue fluff]

it has been pointed out that it could very well be unconstitutional for him to use it in this way, it was designed to be used on spending bills only and specifically bars it's use for passage of legislation.

That's a relief, I was beginning to think there was no hope.

 

[Chazmanian]

This next phase is going to be the final straw.
It will either pass and the country will explode

Explode? As in civil discourse? Gangs of angry taxpayers like the 8 zillion who had a tea party at the white house.

I think we should also agitate so that all roads are converted to toll roads. I'm sick of foreign visitors and poor people using the roads that MY tax dollars pay for. Plus, what if someone has a fire at their house? Why should my tax dollars pay for the fire department. My tax dollars should only pay to keep the fire from spreading to my house. me me me me ME ME ME ME MEEEEEE! I want my POOOONNEEEEEEEEEEY!

Gosh darn it all to heck, it makes me so gosh darned mad. I'm gonna overthrow the government, or move to the caribbean. that'll teach those gosh danged socialist commie bastiosities.!!!!

Seriously, just like every other public expenditure, people, and elected officials, decide what things are important enough to be spread around the same way we do roads and schools. Not everything makes everyone happy. Elections have consequences...Some more "Trying" than others. Obama ran on this platform...McCain wasnt so far behind.

The Dems in the house and senate ran on this very agenda...Why werent folks as fired up then as they are now? We gave this thing away when all of our friends,family and coworkers secretly voted for Obama and his band of merry Dems. I'm not suprised. I expected all this. They laid it out very clearly. Crystal Clear IMO.

Bummer for sure......

Maybe?? on this next go round we on the "Right" side of the aisle can do a better job in spreading the good word to our friends and neighbors ala, Obama networking style rather than just looking like Simple Simon retards parroting talk radio show hosts or just plain out Kooks without any clear direction who are really into hating and stopping Abortion Doctors, Homos, Taxes, Social programs and Muslims?

 

[Ollie]

uh, actually the reasons they got elected are not important.
The fact of the matter is, according to the 10th amendment of the Constitution of The United States of America, it is illegal for the feds to do this.
IT IS ILLEGAL. period.
They don't have the constitutional ability to do it.
You said the following.


"Seriously, just like every other public expenditure, people, and elected officials, decide what things are important enough to be spread around the same way we do roads and schools. Not everything makes everyone happy. Elections have consequences...Some more "Trying" than others. Obama ran on this platform...McCain wasnt so far behind. "

Another point.
It is also unconstitutional for the feds to control school funding, in-state roads, welfare, social security, etc, etc, etc...
It is time for the people of this country to stand up and demand the feds back the heck up and give the power back to the states.
The FEDS DON"T HAVE THE ATHORITY EVERYONE THINKS THEY DO.
It is up to the states to decide what happens.
Only the powers laid out in the constitution can be controlled by the feds.
I am sick and tired of people that don't know what is and isn't the duty of the feds.
I am sick and tired of people telling me it's all because of the votes you cast.
IT'S NOT.
It is the feds STEALING the power that is constitutionally the duty of the states.
It is time for people to WAKE up and demand our rights back.
So by all means, get mad, I think we need a good old fashioned revolution to get the country back on track.
It's not a right or left battle, it's not a liberal vs conservative battle, it is a battle for the very soul of this country.
It is the feds of both parties that have abandoned the constitution in their never ending quest for power and control.
We either have to stand up and demand our rights and demand the politicians follow the constitution or we sit back and watch our country turn into a 3rd world chithole.

So be as outraged as you want, just understand what it is you are outraged about.

 

[Ollie]

Here's some information to look at.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...t-movement-aims-power-states/?test=latestnews

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/the-10th-amendment-movement/

 

[Chazmanian]

Another point.
It is also unconstitutional for the feds to control school funding, in-state roads, welfare, social security, etc, etc,
It is time for the people of this country to stand up and demand the feds back the heck up and give the power back to the states.
The FEDS DON"T HAVE THE ATHORITY EVERYONE THINKS THEY DO.
It is up to the states to decide what happens.
Only the powers laid out in the constitution can be controlled by the feds.
I am sick and tired of people that don't know what is and isn't the duty of the feds.
I am sick and tired of people telling me it's all because of the votes you cast.
IT'S NOT.
It is the feds STEALING the power that is constitutionally the duty of the states.
It is time for people to WAKE up and demand our rights back.
So by all means, get mad, I think we need a good old fashioned revolution to get the country back on track.
It's not a right or left battle, it's not a liberal vs conservative battle, it is a battle for the very soul of this country.
It is the feds of both parties that have abandoned the constitution in their never ending quest for power and control.

You and I aint so far apart Ollie....

Its just that that kinda talk makes rational folks who have fiscally conservative values...Sound like Kooks.

Secession talk is essentially viewed by the vast majority as an Un-Patriotic attack against our country. Not good.

Hows about keeping things simple by getting the Tax and spend Libs outta those house and senate seats and trying to get a grip on all this spending. Thats my thought. Maybe I'm not as radical or motivated as you?

I betcha you have a Turbo sled where I'm just trying to rely on good clutching and some added compression!

 

[Ollie]

Here's the problem with the view of just get the liberals out and it will all be good.
The republicans are as guilty of abusing their powers as the liberals.

Take the deficit.
It has been run up by every president for the last 30 years, dems and republicans.
Policies are abused, powers assumed and/or stolen in the name of the people.
How many times have you heard "think of the childeren". That is the liberal battle cry for their agenda.
Controling the liberals is the battle cry of the conservatives.

you say using the 10th amendment to force the feds to back off, to call for revolution, to demand the government (state and federal) adhere to the U.S. Constitution makes me and those that agree with me sound like a kook, then I am in very good company.
Washington, Franklin and a whole raft of others that forsaw this very situation and sought to prevent it.

Oh, and at no time did I mention secession. Everything I have talked about is forcing the feds to adhere to the U.S. Constitution, there is no breaking up the U.S., there is only taking it back by any means necessary.

 

[Wade]

I don't know Ollie, that Snowtopia sounds pretty good to me.

You really can't blame people for wanting to apply force, to get the federal government under control. The liberal incrementalism of hearts and minds, is bull. Everyone can't have the same lifestyle, raise the 3rd world to our level, create jobs for everyone, and maintain a "pure" environment. Without motivation to to improves one's standard of living above "The Jones". Most things we take for granted would never naturally evolve under a socialist system. Even the former socialist progressed technologically off the drive of the West.

This isn't as much about bringing society up, as bring everyone down to the same level. Healthcare is a way of freeing one from personal responsibilities, to pursue your non-contributing desires. Socialized healthcare removes one more reason to better one's self.

 

[snowmobiler]

cool.free healthcare

 

[Chazmanian]

Ollie...

Once again with all due respect.

You are a "Kook". A good kook...But sadly a Kook none the less.

None of that revolution, take back our country stuff in which you speak of is even a realistic thought. Aint gonna happen.

No disrespect intended but WTF? Do you guys sit around trying to see who can post the most extremist crazy talk? Like look Bob my Uber right wing extremist posting was way bigger than yours...

Do you really believe that stuff in which you post Oliver or are you simply deadset on being the most extreme extremist kook outta the bunch?

Love ya' Brother....But seriously?

Drive to work tomorrow on Private roads if you are that serious....I hear there is a nice isolated spread for sale out on Ruby Ridge. Priced to move in this tough economy

 

[Wade]

Ollie...

Once again with all due respect.

You are a "Kook". A good kook...But sadly a Kook none the less.

None of that revolution, take back our country stuff in which you speak of is even a realistic thought. Aint gonna happen.

No disrespect intended but WTF? Do you guys sit around trying to see who can post the most extremist crazy talk? Like look Bob my Uber right wing extremist posting was way bigger than yours...

Do you really believe that stuff in which you post Oliver or are you simply deadset on being the most extreme extremist kook outta the bunch?

Love ya' Brother....But seriously?

Drive to work tomorrow on Private roads if you are that serious....I hear there is a nice isolated spread for sale out on Ruby Ridge. Priced to move in this tough economy

Actually, roads are a very interesting departure from the powers of the federal government. They form a vital link, for the rapid deployment of armed forces, for the defense of the country. One of the two powers given to the federal government.

They are also funded by the users of the road. Welfare people don't use the roads, without buying gas. Gas that is taxed, to support the roads. If you don't want to support the roads, don't buy gas, or fairs which contribute to the taxation of roads. Don't by goods, which are transported upon the roads, and hence taxed.

It's really one of the few federal responsibilities, that seems to be created fairly. We probably shouldn't go into a discussion about eminent domain though, Nor, the railroads.

 

[Ollie]

Ollie...

Once again with all due respect.

You are a "Kook". A good kook...But sadly a Kook none the less.

None of that revolution, take back our country stuff in which you speak of is even a realistic thought. Aint gonna happen.

No disrespect intended but WTF? Do you guys sit around trying to see who can post the most extremist crazy talk? Like look Bob my Uber right wing extremist posting was way bigger than yours...

Do you really believe that stuff in which you post Oliver or are you simply deadset on being the most extreme extremist kook outta the bunch?

Love ya' Brother....But seriously?

Drive to work tomorrow on Private roads if you are that serious....I hear there is a nice isolated spread for sale out on Ruby Ridge. Priced to move in this tough economy

So by your post you truly believe by voting the republicans in they will suddenly begin returning state powers to the states?
Do you think the feds will stop dictating to the states that the states will pay for "X" while giving no funding for it? It's called an unfunded mandate. It is one of the things in obamacare. It is a gimic to balance the federal books. The feds can't pay for someting so they put in the bill that the states have to pay for it, now it doesn't show up on the federal books. welfare contains a LOT of unfunded state burden.

Remember, we just had a republican majority in all 3 houses and did you see the constitution put back as the overriding control system it was intended??

nope.

Now, do I really think there will be an armed revolution, probably not. Things would have to get a lot worse than they are now.
Do I think that just voting the dems out will make things any better? probably not. The republicans spent to much time garnering power in washington also. It's not just a democrat thing.

There is a ray of hope and in all honesty, it is the best way to force the feds to back off. The states have the right to nulify any and all federal programs that violate the 10th amendment. We just have to make sure we get state officials with the backbone to do what needs to be done.

Oh, and as to the road construction.
Only interstate highways fall under federal control. Local and instate highways are controled and funded by the states. The feds have stolen the states control by abusing the commerce clause in the U.S. Constitution. The feds simply say that since your roads connect to the federal highway system we control them. It's total BS, but that is what they do.

The feds have abused the commerce clause to pass anything and everything they want. Take the new federal ID they wanted to pass. One state pointed out they didn't have the power and it stopped. Montana has nullified the federal gun laws. The list of stuff the feds have stollen from the states is unreal.

 

[Ollie]

It's really one of the few federal responsibilities, that seems to be created fairly. We probably shouldn't go into a discussion about eminent domain though, Nor, the railroads.

Funny thing about railroads.
They do fall under federal control.
Both military dispercement and commerce clauses.
The first railroads were built to facilitate the transport of commerce goods all over the country and to facilitate the movement of troops and equipment.

Eminent domain is just legal theft.

 

[Wade]

Funny thing about railroads.
They do fall under federal control.
Both military dispercement and commerce clauses.
The first railroads were built to facilitate the transport of commerce goods all over the country and to facilitate the movement of troops and equipment.

Eminent domain is just legal theft.

Ah, but a lot of the land acts created to reward the railroads for expanding, where passed when the south succeed. Much of the railroad, was a crutch for the north, another one of those reasons the south got mad

The railroad tracks might have a government connection. But, no where was Amtrak suppose to be federal.

 

[Ollie]

Ah, but a lot of the land acts created to reward the railroads for expanding, where passed when the south succeed. Much of the railroad, was a crutch for the north, another one of those reasons the south got mad

The railroad tracks might have a government connection. But, no where was Amtrak suppose to be federal.

Correct.
As usually, all things controlled by the fed get abused.
Lets take a look at a subject near and dear to our hearts.
The wilderness act.
First off, it is unconstitutional since there is no provision for it in the consititution. If it was enacted, it should have been done at the state level.
That being said ...........
It is a good idea, set aside land for no developement. Ensure future generations have the chance to see some of the natural wonders of this great country.
Enter the politicians.
They can't leave well enough alone. They have to justify their existence.
So they make new provisions, new set asides and such to show how much they care and how important they are.
End game.
They took a grand and noble idea and have abused it to the point of stupidity and pushed it beyond any reason or logic.
It is the same thing the feds do with ANY and EVERY program.

 

[Wade]

Correct.
As usually, all things controlled by the fed get abused.
Lets take a look at a subject near and dear to our hearts.
The wilderness act.
First off, it is unconstitutional since there is no provision for it in the consititution. If it was enacted, it should have been done at the state level.
That being said ...........
It is a good idea, set aside land for no developement. Ensure future generations have the chance to see some of the natural wonders of this great country.
Enter the politicians.
They can't leave well enough alone. They have to justify their existence.
So they make new provisions, new set asides and such to show how much they care and how important they are.
End game.
They took a grand and noble idea and have abused it to the point of stupidity and pushed it beyond any reason or logic.
It is the same thing the feds do with ANY and EVERY program.

You are absolutely correct, my friend. I have no problem with some Wilderness. I have a problem with the constant "one up manship" of politicians. They took a good idea, and drove it off a cliff.