Big Bore paired with Indy long-rod crank, would this work?!

[rydningen]

I am currently installing a long rod crank from Indydan in my 11 pro.

I have been playing with the idea of pairing this bottom end with a BB.

- Rktek 858 would be an option here, the price is not to bad and I guess the shim could easily be port matched to the cylinders.

- Carls 900, the setup I have allways wanted to run since it got released...but kind of pricey. The separated cylinders would demand some new shims to be machinded, same thickness as the ones supplied from Dan by using the base gaskets as a template.

I guess the longer stroke would be an advantage with the 858 since the cylinder skirts get thinner after boring, this I guess are not an issue with the 900.

The longer stroke should also be beneficial in relation to torque, or am I way off here?

What do you think?!

Summer and mod fever can be scary stuff, I guess winter cant come soon enough

 

[LoudHandle]

I am currently installing a long rod crank from Indydan..............,,

I guess the longer stroke would be an advantage with the 858 since the cylinder skirts get thinner after boring, this I guess are not an issue with the 900.

The longer stroke should also be beneficial in relation to torque, or am I way off here?

What do you think?!

Summer and mod fever can be scary stuff, I guess winter cant come soon enough

The stroke does not change, the connecting rod length is what is changed, to long rod the crank. So the angle of force exerted on the piston and cylinder skirt is lessened to ensure a longer life by decreasing the force and amount of piston slap / hammer to the skirts of both. There is no reason you can not install a big bore on it. I would go with someone reputable and known for their stuff. Which today would be Carl's in my opinion. As both PAR and RTK are off of my vendor list due to their track record both on and off the forum. But it is your choice.

 

[TheJett29]

I have found the big bores for the polaris to just be a waste of money. Porting, pipe, head, and clutching will run next to those big bores all day long plus minus any headaches.

Later
Jett

 

[Iceman56]

The stroke does not change, the connecting rod length is what is changed, to long rod the crank. So the angle of force exerted on the piston and cylinder skirt is lessened to ensure a longer life by decreasing the force and amount of piston slap / hammer to the skirts of both. There is no reason you can not install a big bore on it. I would go with someone reputable and known for their stuff. Which today would be Carl's in my opinion. As both PAR and RTK are off of my vendor list due to their track record both on and off the forum. But it is your choice.

Since when does RTK have a bad track record??

 

[N.A84]

I have found the big bores for the polaris to just be a waste of money. Porting, pipe, head, and clutching will run next to those big bores all day long plus minus any headaches.

Later
Jett

Porting, pipe and head is almost the same price as BB. I have a ported 2011 cfi 2 engine, not doing any porting ever again on my next sled. Waste of money.

 

[LoudHandle]

Since when does RTK have a bad track record??

I knew I would take some flack from the RTK faithful for voicing my opinion but I will not buy anything from Kelsey solely based on his childish rants on this forum and his overly defensive rebuttals to legitimate questions about his products. IMO he is a snake oil salesman pure and simple. Again just my opinion and it is your money, spend it where you want.

 

[rmk727]

While he is not going to write speeches for the president, my vote goes to the person that stands up for themselves. Also I;m not buying his typing skills but rather his products that are as good as anyones IMO.

 

[Iceman56]

I knew I would take some flack from the RTK faithful for voicing my opinion but I will not by anything from Kelsey solely based on his childish rants on this forum and his overly defensive rebuttals to legitimate questions about his products. IMO he is a snake oil salesman pure and simple. Again just my opinion and it is your money, spend it where you want.

Not "RTK faithful" never used any of his products or even seen any run in person, only heard nothing but great reviews on here about his stuff... Guess I missed those threads. Don't think I would let an internet pissing match keep me for buying a superior product though.

 

[LoudHandle]

Not "RTK faithful" never used any of his products or even seen any run in person, only heard nothing but great reviews on here about his stuff... Guess I missed those threads. Don't think I would let an internet pissing match keep me for buying a superior product though.

I guess I missed those "superior" product threads, I have read a few raving about his stuff that were sponsored or got a great deal, and then quietly come back a few months later quietly and say after a few rides they lost performance and could never get it to run again. One even missing an entire season of filming because of it. I see it as a shame that they are mute when things go bad. This is a place where we should be able to present both sides and let the consumer decide after getting the rest of the story. Rant over

 

[RKT]

I guess I missed those "superior" product threads, I have read a few raving about his stuff that were sponsored or got a great deal, and then quietly come back a few months later quietly and say after a few rides they lost performance and could never get it to run again. One even missing an entire season of filming because of it. I see it as a shame that they are mute when things go bad. This is a place where we should be able to present both sides and let the consumer decide after getting the rest of the story. Rant over

WOW!!.. Nice one!!!

I see it as a shame to post false claims about anybody...

These threads that you mention simply do not exist... Sorry...

Why you feel the need to post such falsities is a mystery???But it is a public forum...

 

[tdorval]

What about basically saying the long rod will not perform as well but the user accounts here all suggest increased performance? I've talked to a few people with the long rod as well as read from others on here saying they feel a noticeable bump in power with the longrod, but you are implying that it will have negative effects on performance. Either people are lying about their experience here or the way you are saying it is very misleading. Have you fun a long rod in the cfi2 800? If not how can you say either way?

 

[LoudHandle]

WOW!!.. Nice one!!!

I see it as a shame to post false claims about anybody...

These threads that you mention simply do not exist... Sorry...

Why you feel the need to post such falsities is a mystery???But it is a public forum...

I stand by my statement, it was a single post in a thread where the owner was explaining why no video had been posted this season. They went into a brief summary of the issues they had with your personal sled they had acquired from you in an attempt to recover from their previous year of issues with another vendors turbo kit that they could not get to function either. So while some could be chalked up to owner error, it was your personal sled and as such should have been spot on.

If for some reason my memory is in error I will gladly delete my posts regarding your products, but that is not the case.

Additionally the long rod is mere millimeters longer than the stock rod. In round numbers about the rod length of the old 800 BB Polaris. So to try and scare people away from the long rod by saying that the dwell will be detrimental and such, is pure BS. The difference is roughly ten percent and as such the benefits far outweigh your theoretically perceived detriment.

 

[RKT]

I stand by my statement, it was a single post in a thread where the owner was explaining why no video had been posted this season. They went into a brief summary of the issues they had with your personal sled they had acquired from you in an attempt to recover from their previous year of issues with another vendors turbo kit that they could not get to function either. So while some could be chalked up to owner error, it was your personal sled and as such should have been spot on.

If for some reason my memory is in error I will gladly delete my posts regarding your products, but that is not the case.

Additionally the long rod is mere millimeters longer than the stock rod. In round numbers about the rod length of the old 800 BB Polaris. So to try and scare people away from the long rod by saying that the dwell will be detrimental and such, is pure BS. The difference is roughly ten percent and as such the benefits far outweigh your theoretically perceived detriment.

With all due respect...you are in error...

 

[RKT]

What about basically saying the long rod will not perform as well but the user accounts here all suggest increased performance? I've talked to a few people with the long rod as well as read from others on here saying they feel a noticeable bump in power with the longrod, but you are implying that it will have negative effects on performance. Either people are lying about their experience here or the way you are saying it is very misleading. Have you fun a long rod in the cfi2 800? If not how can you say either way?

Good point.

Couple of related questions:

1) When the long rod conversion was performed, was that the ONLY change that was done? They use the original pistons that were removed OR did they install a fresh set of pistons with the new build?

2) With a long rod conversion, does not the crank get trued and balanced?

Thanks

 

[Iceman56]

I guess I missed those "superior" product threads, I have read a few raving about his stuff that were sponsored or got a great deal, and then quietly come back a few months later quietly and say after a few rides they lost performance and could never get it to run again. One even missing an entire season of filming because of it. I see it as a shame that they are mute when things go bad. This is a place where we should be able to present both sides and let the consumer decide after getting the rest of the story. Rant over

Totally agree about people sharing what they've found.... Guess I thought there drop in kit was kinda the go to kit for the Pro, but I guess I haven't read the bad reviews

 

[RKT]

Totally agree about people sharing what they've found.... Guess I thought there drop in kit was kinda the go to kit for the Pro, but I guess I haven't read the bad reviews

There are many review threads on the drop in kit..NONE, with any negativity..

Here are a few links that "pop up" Theere are many more...

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332063

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329629

 

[tdorval]

I'm assuming new pistons were installed. If you are going to make the argument that the new pistons are the cause of the power bump the same argument could be made for your kit correct?

No clue what is done to the crank aside from longer rods. It probably depends on the particular shop doing the work...

 

[RKT]

I'm assuming new pistons were installed. If you are going to make the argument that the new pistons are the cause of the power bump the same argument could be made for your kit correct?

No clue what is done to the crank aside from longer rods. It probably depends on the particular shop doing the work...

Agreed.. But the difference is.. the kit I offer IS a PISTON Kit.. so, naturally the pistons are the source of the performance increase..We have always claimed that the "issues" are piston related. The results (lack of failures and perf increase) seem to justify this claim.

Normally, ANYTIME a crank is disassembled for a rod change, the crank will be indexed and trued for minimal run-out.. sometimes balanced as well..

Just keeping it factual.. when any long rod conversion is performed.. there will be several other components replaced and adjustments made.. So, the end product is more than a simple rod change but rather a combination of new components.. Agreed?

Determining which "change" or "changes"" actually yielded the performance increase is really not clear.. I guess the combination of the new pistons, crank reworking (phasing, and truing) , and spacer plate apparently makes for a better running engine.. But to give all the credit to the longer rod??? well... hard to justify..

 

[tdorval]

I agree and I guess saying that the overall long rod motor package works well would be the better way to say it, but simply saying the long rod has improvements Is just easier. Just a wording misunderstanding is all I guess.

Glad this discussion turned out the way it did, sometimes these get messy.

 

[m1kflyingtiger]

Agreed.. But the difference is.. the kit I offer IS a PISTON Kit.. so, naturally the pistons are the source of the performance increase..We have always claimed that the "issues" are piston related. The results (lack of failures and perf increase) seem to justify this claim.

Normally, ANYTIME a crank is disassembled for a rod change, the crank will be indexed and trued for minimal run-out.. sometimes balanced as well..

Just keeping it factual.. when any long rod conversion is performed.. there will be several other components replaced and adjustments made.. So, the end product is more than a simple rod change but rather a combination of new components.. Agreed?

Determining which "change" or "changes"" actually yielded the performance increase is really not clear.. I guess the combination of the new pistons, crank reworking (phasing, and truing) , and spacer plate apparently makes for a better running engine.. But to give all the credit to the longer rod??? well... hard to justify..

Does your kit include a head as well or just pistons?