Best side hilling and down to uphill suspension setup???

[wildcard28]

Hello everyone I have and 04 Summit X 800HO and have a series 4 159 on it and have done alot of mods, like rear 2whl kit, the 6.9 pilot skis, swapped and cutouts like the carls cutout this year have shaved some weight off it and have adjusted my front skid shock or loosened the limiter strap till the first ride this year so I can tune the trail ski pressure for turning performance but have good sidehilling and manuevers performance. have shaved some weight, oil injection delete, lightweight can and other mods , my ski stance is 38.5 with skis set to inside offset position. my front shocks are set to setting #1 and no swaybar. with rear rear shock set to #2position, limiter strap set loose and front skid shock at about 1 1/2 inchs of threads showing, I weigh myself 155-160lbs with gear on..

All mods and other are in my signature please read that and please recommend to me or others reading this What is the best sidehlling and especially set up on the Rev Chassis to execute a downhill to uphill powerturn manuever??? this is the one manuever I want to learn or be set up for the most I get in some sticky down hill spots sometimes and would like to have my sled set up to be able to do this easily, even tho I do understand this type of manuever is also rider executed and seat time and experience is key which I am trying, for sidehilling which I can do fairly well and but powerturning and the down to uphill turnaround is where I need the most help at.

Any recommendation to the sled and more set up advice would be greatly appreciated, I can`t afford aftermarket rear skid and stuff like that now, but will eventually have narrower front control arms to around 37inch stance eventually which should help but 38.5 now to 37inch doesn`t seem like it would be a heck of alot of difference, maybe.. whats the experience you all have in this set up and ski stance changes and anything mentioned in this topic????

please ask any questions if you think you need more info..

Thanks, Wildcard

 

[Ckale]

I would also like advise on this. I have almost the exact same settings as Wildcard. Except Ive made a couple changes this year beccause of what ive read, havent tried them yet. I stiffened up both of my front shocks and softened up my rear.

Any input would be great!

 

[byeatts]

Hello everyone I have and 04 Summit X 800HO and have a series 4 159 on it and have done alot of mods, like rear 2whl kit, the 6.9 pilot skis, swapped and cutouts like the carls cutout this year have shaved some weight off it and have adjusted my front skid shock or loosened the limiter strap till the first ride this year so I can tune the trail ski pressure for turning performance but have good sidehilling and manuevers performance. have shaved some weight, oil injection delete, lightweight can and other mods , my ski stance is 38.5 with skis set to inside offset position. my front shocks are set to setting #1 and no swaybar. with rear rear shock set to #2position, limiter strap set loose and front skid shock at about 1 1/2 inchs of threads showing, I weigh myself 155-160lbs with gear on..

All mods and other are in my signature please read that and please recommend to me or others reading this What is the best sidehlling and especially set up on the Rev Chassis to execute a downhill to uphill powerturn manuever??? this is the one manuever I want to learn or be set up for the most I get in some sticky down hill spots sometimes and would like to have my sled set up to be able to do this easily, even tho I do understand this type of manuever is also rider executed and seat time and experience is key which I am trying, for sidehilling which I can do fairly well and but powerturning and the down to uphill turnaround is where I need the most help at.

Any recommendation to the sled and more set up advice would be greatly appreciated, I can`t afford aftermarket rear skid and stuff like that now, but will eventually have narrower front control arms to around 37inch stance eventually which should help but 38.5 now to 37inch doesn`t seem like it would be a heck of alot of difference, maybe.. whats the experience you all have in this set up and ski stance changes and anything mentioned in this topic????

please ask any questions if you think you need more info..

Thanks, Wildcard

I suggest the Alternative Impact narrow arms. I do one arm bottom turns[just as a trick to show it can be done,] on the Rev.The Rev does effortless bottom turns on any angle hill with correct setup.Because my skid is lowered due to the extended chaincase ive been able to run 17.5 shocks and sit at 35.5 ski stance in the middle position.There are handling advantages to center the skis with the spindles.The narrow arms do help.

 

[wildcard28]

I would also like advise on this. I have almost the exact same settings as Wildcard. Except Ive made a couple changes this year beccause of what ive read, havent tried them yet. I stiffened up both of my front shocks and softened up my rear.

Any input would be great!

Whether this is everyone elses experience or not I have found that running the front shocks softer its easier to get the sled to lay over, for example just on hard ground if you stand on your sled and lean to one side or the other stiffer set front shocks you have to postion yourself farther off the side of the sled to get the suspension to squish to the side your leaning along with when you give the sled a tug on its side its much harder with stiffer frontend to with a softer frontend you stand up on the sled and lean to one side or the other you can feel the suspension squish much easier and sled instantly leans over the just give a slight pull on the bars and you can lay it on its side, I figure in snow soft or hard pack this movement or maneuver will be easier to lay the sled over when you now have throttle control that will lay the sled over as you move your weigth to which ever side.

Correct me if I`m wrong!!! but try it in shop floor or hard ground, twist the shock (X package or aftermarket shocks) to a stiffer setting and try this then turn them down to 1 or 2 and try again, big difference I figure this will help in snow conditions also.

PLEASE, keep the advice and comments coming to help me and many others I am sure would also want to read advice on this topic, I have read and my buddy has also told me the downhill to uphill maneuver for some reason was harder for him to initiate on his rev and xp`s he has ridden then other sled, this is the ONLY thing he had dificulty with on the Rev chassis, his and my old S Chassis along with his zx chassis are actually easier to execute this manuever.


Good Luck, Wildcard

 

[snowmanx]

I have found the same thing as byeatts. Soften up the front end. I had a heck of a time with my M1000, even holding a side hill, I softened up the front end and I immediately notice a difference.

I think with the stiffer front end, or more preload, it resists being pulled into a sidehill, and wants to "push" you away from the hill. JMO and observation.

 

[gman086]

Softening the ski shocks definitely allows you to pull the sled over easier BUT there is a caveat in that it will create a diving issue (compounded even more if you remove the stabilizer bar). I adjust my ski shocks to just avoid harsh bottoming and mainly focus on getting the center skid shock set up just perfect. Cranking up the preload on the center shock allows for less ski pressure and much easier countersteering which is CRITICAL for initiating a sidehill. Too much and you'll trench the rear as you'll get too much ski lift so you need to play with it a bit and rear shock comes into play then too for controlling ski lift. As with the ski shocks, I set the rear so I never bottom hard and work from there on the center shock. It's a balancing act that takes time to get just right and will change with changing snow conditions too!

Have FUN!

G MAN

 

[mastertech]

WILDCARD- You must learn to ride like a man first..



hahaha.. j/k

 

[Skidoohmx]

Practice, practice, and more practice...LOL! You can do things to the suspesion no doubt to make it easier but it still takes rider ability from practice like I have told you before. Sled is looking good! Makes me wish I had mine back!

 

[Ckale]

Some deep snow would help too!!!

 

[wildcard28]

Practice, practice, and more practice...LOL! You can do things to the suspesion no doubt to make it easier but it still takes rider ability from practice like I have told you before. Sled is looking good! Makes me wish I had mine back!

Thanks skidoohmx, ya this year when you and I get out riding, hopefully soon I am pushing my limits more like I did last year but this year even more I beleive I have a good base line on my mods and suspension setup and it time to just fine tune it and get like you say practice and seat time, going to try to put myself in more technical cituations and just riding it out like where we usually go in boville and especialy lookin forward to Sledtrap in Elkriver and pulling off some cool down to up hill turnarounds I beleive that will be a good spot starting from the top and going down to towards the second road and just laying into it!!!

Wildcard

 

[Ryan-41]

Hello everyone I have and 04 Summit X 800HO and have a series 4 159 on it and have done alot of mods, like rear 2whl kit, the 6.9 pilot skis, swapped and cutouts like the carls cutout this year have shaved some weight off it and have adjusted my front skid shock or loosened the limiter strap till the first ride this year so I can tune the trail ski pressure for turning performance but have good sidehilling and manuevers performance. have shaved some weight, oil injection delete, lightweight can and other mods , my ski stance is 38.5 with skis set to inside offset position. my front shocks are set to setting #1 and no swaybar. with rear rear shock set to #2position, limiter strap set loose and front skid shock at about 1 1/2 inchs of threads showing, I weigh myself 155-160lbs with gear on..

All mods and other are in my signature please read that and please recommend to me or others reading this What is the best sidehlling and especially set up on the Rev Chassis to execute a downhill to uphill powerturn manuever??? this is the one manuever I want to learn or be set up for the most I get in some sticky down hill spots sometimes and would like to have my sled set up to be able to do this easily, even tho I do understand this type of manuever is also rider executed and seat time and experience is key which I am trying, for sidehilling which I can do fairly well and but powerturning and the down to uphill turnaround is where I need the most help at.

Any recommendation to the sled and more set up advice would be greatly appreciated, I can`t afford aftermarket rear skid and stuff like that now, but will eventually have narrower front control arms to around 37inch stance eventually which should help but 38.5 now to 37inch doesn`t seem like it would be a heck of alot of difference, maybe.. whats the experience you all have in this set up and ski stance changes and anything mentioned in this topic????

please ask any questions if you think you need more info..

Thanks, Wildcard

The best set up is a Polaris Pro!!! But if you can't swing that! Buy the first Schooled DVD!!! That would help quite a bit cause side hilling is just rider abilty not sled!

 

[wildcard28]

Thanks Ryan-41 but Polaris Pro which is a nice sled is not in the cards, ya can`t swing it Lol, the new sleds are nice but way to over priced

I don`t plan on switchin up sleds anytime soon when the chassis I`m on is a proven one since they first came out. anything is tuned better when set up to rider likeing and feel. I have seen lots of older sleds and like you say rider ability on older sleds like the S Chassis and so one with a good rider on it out do any new sled.

I appreciate all the comments and advice on this topic

just my 02, thanks Wildcard

 

[Ryan-41]

Thanks Ryan-41 but Polaris Pro which is a nice sled is not in the cards, ya can`t swing it Lol, the new sleds are nice but way to over priced

I don`t plan on switchin up sleds anytime soon when the chassis I`m on is a proven one since they first came out. anything is tuned better when set up to rider likeing and feel. I have seen lots of older sleds and like you say rider ability on older sleds like the S Chassis and so one with a good rider on it out do any new sled.

I appreciate all the comments and advice on this topic

just my 02, thanks Wildcard

Ya I agree they are way too expensive! I don't know much about the rev, but I agree suspension tuning will help a little bit with side hilling because it is set up to your liking! I hope you figure out a good set up and start tearin it up!!!!

Hope this Helps,
Ryan

 

[BackCountryBob]

Softening the ski shocks definitely allows you to pull the sled over easier BUT there is a caveat in that it will create a diving issue (compounded even more if you remove the stabilizer bar). I adjust my ski shocks to just avoid harsh bottoming and mainly focus on getting the center skid shock set up just perfect. Cranking up the preload on the center shock allows for less ski pressure and much easier countersteering which is CRITICAL for initiating a sidehill. Too much and you'll trench the rear as you'll get too much ski lift so you need to play with it a bit and rear shock comes into play then too for controlling ski lift. As with the ski shocks, I set the rear so I never bottom hard and work from there on the center shock. It's a balancing act that takes time to get just right and will change with changing snow conditions too!

Have FUN!

G MAN

G Man,
I just trimmed my track 1/2"--like you did--can't ride for another 2 weeks and am hoping this was the "right thing to do"

BCB

 

[Ckale]

Schooled DVD's are the BOMB!!

 

[wildcard28]

Schooled DVD's are the BOMB!!

I would be interested in seeing a Schooled Dvd I like any type or sledding video, Where would be a good place to get one??

Wildcard

 

[gman086]

G Man,
I just trimmed my track 1/2"--like you did--can't ride for another 2 weeks and am hoping this was the "right thing to do"

BCB

You're gonna freak at how much more agile your sled will be! Post up your results when you get to ride her.

Cheers,

G

 

[LRD]

One of the best sleds I have ever seen actually sidehilling in the mountains was the original 670 Summit. So it was likely 50 to 70 lbs heavier than a Rev or XP, so how could it sidehill like it was born to live on the side of a mountain.

They had a 15" wide track, 36" ski stance I think and ONLY 6" wide skis.
The narrow skis help because the uphill ski will dig in a lot easier, doesn't try to float on top of the snow and roll you off down the mountain. Narrow ski stance, better leverage etc. Also think the 15" tracks may be easier than a 16".

I have a XP TNT mod mountain sled, weighs about 370 lbs, and have narrowed the 7" wide PowderHound skis 1" on the outside edges from the spindle bolts back to the tales. On the uphill ski its the tail that is mainly holding that uphill side up, especially if you countersteer. This mod originated with Carl's Cycle on the SLP Powder Pros and there is a long thread on here about it.

Link to ski mod http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236380

Took it a step further and cut out my skid plate under my a-arms. Am pretty
sure cats have always had there skid plates cut out in this area, and everybody is always bragging how well they sidehill.

The skis and skid plate mods improved my XP sidehilling a bunch.

The other thing I learned from a friend when I was whining about how difficult it was to get my new 2005 summit 550 fan mod to sidehill. He told me to try a high rate primary clutch spring. WOW, thought I had died and gone to sidehill heaven!!! A high rate spring has thick wire and is physically a shorter spring because it gets its rate from the thick wire. A lower rate spring has thinner wire and gets its rate from being a lot longer. They act
entirely different in your clutch.

Here is what the high rate will do for you, if you get one with a bit lower engagement rpm (lower lbs on the first # 130/290 you take off like a snow tractor without spinning the track) and this effect will last until a sort of crossover point where if you blip the throttle then the engine snaps to full shift rpm and you have full power at low gear ratio in the clutches apllied to your track and it will spin. So your sidehilling along doing great and the front
does the washout headed down the mountain towards certain death, well with the high rate primary spring, just a blip of the throttle with your thumb
spins the track loose a bit and the back end slides down below the front end and WITH YOUR CONTROL of YOUR THUMB you can get it level or even point it back uphill. ITS LIKE MAGIC!!!! For example for my wife I use a low engagement 100/290 and she hardly ever gets stuck, it engages around 2900 rpm and it still sidehills great but not as aggressive.

The lower the engagement you have the higher the crossover speed between tractoring along and jumping to full rpm. A 160/290 on the old fan mod was a bit nuts, would pull the skis 3 ft in the air at 15 to 20 mph, while with the original clutching, couldn't lift the skis at any speed. I always thought it was the skid until put in the high rate primary springs. A lower engaegment spring 100/290 will have the crossover point at a higher mph and not be nearly as aggressive (how as much engine HP available) to go nuts with if you really whack full throttle. The control you can get this with your thumb still amazes me. I ride a normal clutched sled and it feels like theres something in between the engine and the track soaking up half the engine HP before it gets to the track. It will eventually get there but will take a while.

These high rate springs have worked great on my wife's 70 HP fan, my buddies 800R's at 160 HP, my 370 lb TNT mod at 120 HP and even a old MachZ big bore I ported and built for a customer that likely made well over 200 HP.

On chassis I discovered this about 1991 or 92. We brought a guy along to Cooke City with a new short (121") track Yami V-Max 4. Heavy 4 cylinder sled for its day and a short track, although the Longest track then was a 136, and maybe 1.5" paddles. Anyhow we told him to stay away from trees and never stop pointed uphill cause we didn't want to stretch our arms getting him unstuck all the time. He religiously broke the uphill rule and NEVER got stuck.

I was impressed with the traction that sled had so I used something learned from Smoky Yunick and Circle Track mag to figure it out. Rounded up 4 bathroom scales and went down to my buddies Yami dealership and put the scales under a new V-Max 4. I was surprised to discover only 40% of its weight was on the skis and 60% on the skid with 60% of what was on the skid being UNDER the front arm of the skid!! I'm guessing the front of the track tamps down the snow for the rear of the track. Have used scales to adjust my suspension ever since then. When I'm really being anal about it the gas tank is full and have three 70 lb sandbags on the sled, one on the front of seat and one on each running board. Testing this way will teach you a lot about your chassis real quick and when you make adjustments you won't be guessing.

My 370 lb TNT mountain mod is close to those ideal percentages considering how far off it started out as a new and so-called improved state of the art rider forward chassis. Liked the rev chassis better, only went with a XP because the TNT is likely the only under 400 lb factory stock sled with over 100 HP liquid engine.

Here are pictures of the ski/skid plate mods and those springs are shortest (highest rate) middle would be medium rate and the longest would low rate (skinny wire)

Good Luck

 

[wildcard28]

Thanks for the reply LRD

and thanks for reminding me I thought I had another thing I wanted to do to my sled and just couldn`t think of it , it was cutting the skid plate like the pic you showed, I just traded a guy straight across my Yellow skid plate for a
Black one I was wanting and its going to be trimmed out like that and then installed I read a thread once on that mod and makes alot of sence, everyone who had done said they really liked it.

I beleive the spring in my clutch is a 200/290 the secondary is I beleive stock but not sure, someone before I purchased the sled had regeared it and it geared 19/47 pretty low but I like the lowend snappy feeling.

also diid the sidecover and footwell cutout or trimmin mod and that one feels good too positions the feet differently and can put the feet farther forward and also out on the outside of the running boards easier, don`t have to pull the feet completely out of the forward footwells and they get the feet to the outside of the running boards. This sled just on hard ground now pulls over so easy its amazing, I was at the Polaris and Cat dealer the other day and stood on all the new sleds and then gave a pull in each direction to tip the sled and had to litterally Yank on the bars and only pulled the skis up maybe 6inchs off the floor, of course all those sleds the frontend was stiff feeling and had swaybars too, I came home and did the same effort on my sled from each side and Literally layed it completely on its side in both directions.

my friend or skidoohmx who posted earlier has an awesome powered Mod tripple S Chassis summit and it feels so light and tippy on the front end also. lots of lightweight parts you`d never know it had a tripple in it. makes it feel more balanced from side to side.

Can`t wait to ride it. Wildcard

Wildcard

 

[LRD]

I got the idea for cutting the skid plate a number of years ago when a friend related how he lost his skid plate on a trip and how much better his XP sidehilled without it for the rest of his mtn trip. Put that together with the Cat's reputation for sidehilling and they only have a narrow strip down the center so I gave it a shot. Had heard about the Carls cycle mod for Powder Pros quite a few years ago but had never seen it until a couple years ago somebody posted a pic of it on here and then some of us tried it on just about any brand ski and it worked. If you have your sled in a side hill position and then look down at the uphill ski pretty easy to see why it might help.

Doing the skis and skid plate really helped my XP.
I'm also expecting going from a 16" track to a 15" wide track will help. Certainly pulls over easy on the garage floor with a 15".

And then there is always the Schooled video's with Burandt and Rasmussen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMTQ-W5qU3c Wow just looked at the teaser for Schooled 3 and at about 1:39, somebody kind of does a half barrel row endo downhill deep powder, he is under the sled, pops back up, right side up and goes down the hill in control, amazing, now thats sidehilling. In over 20 years of mtn riding I have never seen anybody pull that off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQHPnCi2T0&feature=related Looked at it again, think I'll call it a Reverse Whip!! Hey Hey


Hope I don't hurt myself to bad learning to do the Bull Dog on my Jan trip to Northern CO.

Good Luck