Best optics for long range shooting?

[Motley Doo]

Don't have a lot of experience with long range scopes, but my dad has had a Burris(4x12) on top of his 8mm Rem. Mag. for over 20 years, and has had ZERO issues with it. And those aren't factory 8 mag loads, either, like the kind of loads that you shoot 3 rounds and take a break! Its hard to argue with the quality of the Burris, or the leupold that's on my Browning BLR lightning in 7mm mag. I have HEARD some very good things about Nikons, ended up putting one on a Rem. VTR(.223 and 4.5-14x), but really haven't had a chance to shoot it. I can't speak for any others, though.

Hey Highmark, how do you like that 7mm STW, dad was kicking around swapping barrels since its just a necked down 8 mag case.

 

[Makaveli_Rev]

I have a leupold Vari X 1111 with the Boone and Crocket Recticle. If i got a new scope though i would get the Haskaraw... check those out... not sure how to spell it

 

[Supplicate]

Your best shooters are your gun smiths PERIOD

 

[HIGHMARK]

HIGHMARK, I read you're a 240WBY owner too. Not many of us out there and even fewer who will admit it. Mines a custom on a Model 700 with a 27in. Lilja barrel. Of all the long guns I own it's my all time funnest to shoot!

LOVE my .240! Best antelope and deer gun I have ever seen! Kind of expensive to shoot if you don't reload but I don't EVER shoot factory loads unless it's just to fireform cases so it's all good for me!

 

[mulestar]

Not trying to get anyone excited, but I went into a store with full intentions of buying a leupold and leupold only. The salesman was an older fella who knew his optics. Totally turned me away from the leupold and pointed me towards the Burris. Started telling me about how the scopes were put together, told me the leupold is put together with nylon and plastic while the Burris are all brass inside, brass is self lubricating and should last much longer. He also went on to say that the glass that is in a Burris, the upper end ones, (mines the Signature series), were made the same way Zeiss and Swarovski are made, while the Vari X III had the same type of glass the regular Burris's had. At the time the Signature was the same price as the Vari X III.

I chose the Burris and have been very pleased, this was about ten years ago when I shot alot more than I do now, so alot of things have probably changed.

I alway liked the reticle leupold had to offer and I still believe they are an excellent scope, so I am really not biased, just giving you my experience.

I will admit they were two drawbacks to the Burris, one it is, or was, alot heavier than the leupold, and I never cared much for the crosshairs, too thick, at least in mine. Now I see there are many reticles you can choose from, wish I could have chose different ones for mine.

I am starting to shoot more these days, sure miss it, shoot more 22 than the .280, ammo has gotten expensive!

 

[spring snow hero]

really it all depends on your budget. you can get US optics to build what ever you want.....tubes up to silly diameters, more reticle options than you ever care to decide on.....blah blah blah.

now it seems that nobody adressed this aspect;

you are shooting a .270. they are great fast flat shooters.....no question there....but you are wanting to shoot long range with a caliber that really is lacking in the BC dept and most 270 barrels are going to be slow on the twist to stabilize any long heavy bullets (should you find any). you can go either way and really do much better on bullet choices. I have a tannel built 6.5-06 that has taken critters up to elk at ranges I will not post, but trust me they are long. the 6.5's are great on the BC/SD spectrum and light on recoil. you could go up to the 7mm's or 30's, .338's and milk a lot more PREDICTABLE downrange performance out of the rifle.

so as for scopes.

you are swining a rifle that IMO should stay inside 1k yds for hunting. to keep hits inside a 10" circle a 14x is enough. I would say that if you go USO, S&B, nightforce, heck even leuy-pentax-elite range of scopes you ought to be able to make good hits.

I would spend what you can afford on a decent scope and the rest on ammo to practice with. I feel that a $1000 scope and $500 in ammo is going to make you a better shot than a $4000 scope and no practice.

enjoy.

 

[snow_knight]

I would spend what you can afford on a decent scope and the rest on ammo to practice with. I feel that a $1000 scope and $500 in ammo is going to make you a better shot than a $4000 scope and no practice.

enjoy.

Very well said.. and something most people need to take note of....You could have a very nice scope/rifle/caliber setup.. and still not hit jack chit.... You could be shooting a savage.. put a decant scope on it.. trigger job.. quality reloads.. and practice, lots of practice.. you wouldnt believe what you can hit at very long distances..


but then what the heck do i know about shooting long ranges

 

[Supplicate]

I would spend what you can afford on a decent scope and the rest on ammo to practice with. I feel that a $1000 scope and $500 in ammo is going to make you a better shot than a $4000 scope and no practice.

If it comes right down to it; a person would be better off buying a CZ452, putting a good scope on it, buying several thousand rounds of 22lr and learn how to shoot it out to 100 yards.

 

[johnny be bad]

!!!

 

[happylilcuss]

really it all depends on your budget. you can get US optics to build what ever you want.....tubes up to silly diameters, more reticle options than you ever care to decide on.....blah blah blah.

now it seems that nobody adressed this aspect;

you are shooting a .270. they are great fast flat shooters.....no question there....but you are wanting to shoot long range with a caliber that really is lacking in the BC dept and most 270 barrels are going to be slow on the twist to stabilize any long heavy bullets (should you find any). you can go either way and really do much better on bullet choices. I have a tannel built 6.5-06 that has taken critters up to elk at ranges I will not post, but trust me they are long. the 6.5's are great on the BC/SD spectrum and light on recoil. you could go up to the 7mm's or 30's, .338's and milk a lot more PREDICTABLE downrange performance out of the rifle.

so as for scopes.

you are swining a rifle that IMO should stay inside 1k yds for hunting. to keep hits inside a 10" circle a 14x is enough. I would say that if you go USO, S&B, nightforce, heck even leuy-pentax-elite range of scopes you ought to be able to make good hits.

I would spend what you can afford on a decent scope and the rest on ammo to practice with. I feel that a $1000 scope and $500 in ammo is going to make you a better shot than a $4000 scope and no practice.

enjoy.

Well, spring I am gonna disagree with what you are saying. First of all I am shooting a 270WSM not just a 270. Second the BC for my bullets will be .525 down to .496. with a barrel twist of 1-10. Now I Know its not as good as the remington model 700xcr .308 with a 1-12 twist rate. However having a 3" longer barrel cant hurt me right? (BTW the winchester model 70 has a tist of 1-10 in 270wsm and 1-12 .308 with a 22" barrel. The savage model 10fp which some have stated as a great long range gun in .308 is 1-10 twist with a 20" barrel) I looked up some BC's for the beloved .308 and have come up with BT&AB (.507) PT (.474) from nosler and from Supreme® Hollow Point Boattail Match .452. I will include this as well. http://www.remington.com/products/a...aspx?data=R308W1*PRA308WB*R270WSM1*PRA270WSMB I know that there are soo many things that can be done with reloading and gunsmithing so everyone please dont get offended about my post. I just wanted some ideas on scopes and now have them.
I am looking toward having Leupold build me a custom mark4 or going with the nightforce. From research I have done its pretty much like polaris and cat.. maybe quite a bit higher end on the nightforce.
I am not saying that my caliber is better than anything else. I just know what I like and I also know what it can do (But want to test it even more at longer range) It kills me how people freak out when someone try's something out of the norm in the long range world..

 

[Nate]

.270 WSM is the best caliber you can buy off the shelf next to 7mm STW

People just dont understand efficiancy of a case. Look at the 6mmBR......

I would shy away from a custom leupold and just go straight to a Nightforce Just from my findings, they are night and day difference

 

[spring snow hero]

no offense meant to you. I know full well that you are shooting a wsm. it really does not matter if you were shooting a 270-378roy the caliber has never been loved by the match crowd. I am the worlds biggest 270 fan and have several, but like I said IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT SHOOTING OVER 1K YARDS you are seriously handicapped. the 1-10 twist is not bad at all for the class of bullets that you will find in 277 offerings. you are thinking that 5ish is special for a bullet in bc terms. sierra shows 488 as a best in the MK's in 277 at top velos, 6.5's at top velos are banging on the .6's the 308s are at 629....that is a big gap. go look at bergers.....huge spread there too.

the extra barrel length..........it is more of a good thing.....or more of a bad thing, it depends. I have a broughton that is finished at 28" it shoots quite well and milks every last bit out of the round. in a factory barrel, often times you will get BETTER accuracy with a SHORTER barrel. velos will be reduced, but accuracy goes up. not always but often.

you can only expect relaible accuracy as long as a bullet stays supersonic, once they come back from there they go all funky. a slick bullet will fly truer. wind doping is going to get you way farther than an arguement on bullets. learning to read mirage is paramount as well.

I agree that there are some fine shooting savage and rems out there ( I have some) but if I need to knock clay piegons at a grand I will go custom every time. once you shoot a rifle that is intended for long range you will understand. the off the shelf guns are a far cry from a smithed rifle. ever see a stock gun with bedded bases? prolly not. most guys don't even know about it.

call shawn carlock and ask him what he would suggest for a long range gun.

I bet he says the 270's are sweet for a light weight hunting rig, but lack the bullets for true long range shooting.

thanks for listening.

 

[spring snow hero]

as for custom shop leuys...don't waste your $$ you can have mark kenseth (sp) build you a cam to your ele, bc, velo, alt, baro.....etc. he can make a couple sets for less than the custom shop and the warranty will still be in place.

 

[happylilcuss]

Nate thanks for the info, I will go with the nightforce nxs 5.5-22X50 maybe the 56.

When I was giving the BC numbers I was just comparing what is available without a ton looking and comparing them. I totally understand that you can get higher BC numbers than what I was showing. Also this is a direct quote from my previous post; "I know that there are soo many things that can be done with reloading and gunsmithing so everyone please dont get offended about my post." When I posted this I kinda figured that everyone would understand that I was discussing a factory rifle and comparing other factory rifles to it. Comparing a custom rifle to a off the shelf does no better than comparing a turbo to a stock 800 there is no way to compare the 2.

 

[Supplicate]

In regards to the gunsmithing question:

It is my firm belief that a person is better off shooting a factory tube until it is burned out, using everything said person learned during all that trigger pulling to then buy a barrel with exactly what you want/need. There is no better way of learning then burning powder. Maybe by that time there will be decent target bullets offered in 277 or you could go to a 7mm bore and have the best of everything in the 7wizzum.

A $600 gun with $2000 scope is an awesome learning tool, a $2000 gun with a cheap a$$ scope is no better then a tomato stake.

 

[Snow Fox]

I believe it was Nate that mentioned Dan Kinneman. Dan taught me a lot about the world of long range target shooting. Before I spoke to him I only knew one world and that is military/law enforcement shooting/tactics and that world is where I have recieved the majority of my training. His knowledge really opened my eyes, and I have enjoyed learning about that side of shooting. The special calibers in the custom target rifles are very awesome. On the flip side, there is a big difference between the long range target/prairie dog shooting world and the world of military/law enforcement. Sorry, but in my world I do not need a custom target rifle in a special unique caliber w/ a 3 or 4 thousand dollar scope. An M-14 or Rem 700 Police in .308 or even .300 Win Mag equipped with a Mark 4 Leupold will do just fine. Just my 2 cents.

 

[happylilcuss]

I believe it was Nate that mentioned Dan Kinneman. Dan taught me a lot about the world of long range target shooting. Before I spoke to him I only knew one world and that is military/law enforcement shooting/tactics and that world is where I have recieved the majority of my training. His knowledge really opened my eyes, and I have enjoyed learning about that side of shooting. The special calibers in the custom target rifles are very awesome. On the flip side, there is a big difference between the long range target/prairie dog shooting world and the world of military/law enforcement. Sorry, but in my world I do not need a custom target rifle in a special unique caliber w/ a 3 or 4 thousand dollar scope. An M-14 or Rem 700 Police in .308 or even .300 Win Mag equipped with a Mark 4 Leupold will do just fine. Just my 2 cents.

Snow I like the way you think!! has anyone had any expierence with these: IOR Valdada 4-14x50 Tactical Scope, 30mm tube, illuminated MP8 reticle
From my research they are really nice scopes in the mid money range. Better than your leupys, burris, swaro's, nikon not quite as nice as NF, but no where near the SB and us optic. It seems to me to be a pretty intriguing scope. The people that love em hink they rank better than the NF and right with the SB scopes for glass but lack a little in the refinements. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Supplicate]

I've heard good things about IOR, never used one myself though.

 

[TIM]

I wonder if my dall last year knew it was killed with a bad scope, or my bull or my buck. lol

 

[xrated]

Nice Tim!!!

You could be shooting a savage.. put a decant scope on it.. trigger job.. quality reloads.. and practice, lots of practice.. you wouldnt believe what you can hit at very long distances Here ya go Knight...
I can't say much for long range, but I have a rifle that was 150 with scope. Out to 100 it was shooting sub 3/4" and the other guns(long range custom built dog guns, bedded and all)were shooting sub 1/2". Pretty sure no animal is gonna say, "wait just a minute, that was 1/4" to far off". Not sure what kinda scope either one was, but the dog guns were upper echelon scopes. I think scopes will play a big part in long range or any shooting, but the ultimate is the guy squeezing the trigger, especially at long range.

Ive shot with enough military trained guys to know that military isnt the best training for shooting.-now nate what's wrong with Aquire, Identify and Eliminate?

$1000 scope damn I just about chit myself...my sled is barely worth that. Aww hell just work on your stalking skills. Besides everyone knows anything over a .22 is small man syndrome.