Bearpaw riding- adjacent wilderness area

[Backcountry]

If you are riding in the wilderness area- knock it off. Its got a bunch of hikers all up in arms and they are calling the ranger station complaining. Sure hate to see areas get shut down because of some bad apples. Theres pictures of the riders so if you know them, a kind word may help...

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=586564#586564

The blue line in this link is where riders were riding...Much past Excelsior is wilderness.
http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?q=http://www.schroder.us/2010nwhiker/maps/excelsior.kml

 

[tar]

Those are nice sled pics, could have been taken any where.


Tar

 

[Chicken]

It looks like it was a awesome day! Wish I was there! Looks like they were on a hill on the back side of the widowmaker. I know the tree hugger that took this picture had nothing better to do. But why would a sledder post these pictures? The guy that took these pictures probley drives a suburu or a volkswagon that burns two quarts of oil for every tank of gas. I wonder if he takes pictures of all the trails the hikers have cut into the ground all over the mountains?
Rember when you are pointing at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you!

Conrad

 

[BigT]

It does not matter if the snow looks awesome or if the the sun is out or even if the greenies make a mess of the land. We need to be a notch above and stay out--period. If you feel that you should be able to ride in the wilderness then fight the battle correctly and not by simply riding in wilderness anyway. That does no positive but a huge amount of negitive.
You will get it shut down for the rest of us.

BigT

 

[Chicken]

It does not matter if the snow looks awesome or if the the sun is out or even if the greenies make a mess of the land. We need to be a notch above and stay out--period. If you feel that you should be able to ride in the wilderness then fight the battle correctly and not by simply riding in wilderness anyway. That does no positive but a huge amount of negitive.
You will get it shut down for the rest of us.

BigT

Big T I agree with you that we need to stay a notch above. Thats why we do clean ups as clubs. Open roads up when the forest service has no money to do this. Or when one of these hikers that dislike us so bad get lost in the "Wilderness" who do they call? For some reason we still go looking for them. Do you think they would come looking for a snowmobiler? I went to the NW hikers forum. Most of them will admit they do more damage to the land than the snowmobiler but they don't care. They are more concerned about the noise we make for a second as a sledder goes by. Maybe they are not really worried about the enviroment like I have always assumed but instead they are just selfish and want everything for themselves and not share with someone who has a diffrent intrest. The thing that really gets me is when they come to a snow park and ski or snowshoe down a groomed trail and wont move for sleds. 99% of sledders will slow down when going by a cross country skier or what have you and wave.

 

[BigT]

I hear ya Chicken. My point was only that we need to stay out of the Wilderness. If one doesn't like having to stay out, then go about opening up the areas up through legal channel. Riding in Wilderness will only get more areas closed AND give ALL sledders a bad name.

BigT

 

[wiley75]

Big T I agree with you that we need to stay a notch above. Thats why we do clean ups as clubs. Open roads up when the forest service has no money to do this. Or when one of these hikers that dislike us so bad get lost in the "Wilderness" who do they call? For some reason we still go looking for them. Do you think they would come looking for a snowmobiler? I went to the NW hikers forum. Most of them will admit they do more damage to the land than the snowmobiler but they don't care. They are more concerned about the noise we make for a second as a sledder goes by. Maybe they are not really worried about the enviroment like I have always assumed but instead they are just selfish and want everything for themselves and not share with someone who has a diffrent intrest. The thing that really gets me is when they come to a snow park and ski or snowshoe down a groomed trail and wont move for sleds. 99% of sledders will slow down when going by a cross country skier or what have you and wave.

I feel your pain! But make sure you fight this the appropriate way - by joining SAWS, BRC, and also Tread Lightly. Also write your congress rep and senator. It sounds like you already participate in clean-ups, which is great news. But whatever you do - PLEASE do not ride in Wilderness areas. It just puts bullets in their gun. Empathy and cooperation (even when they spit in our face) is the best approach. Sometimes it's tough, I know!

 

[little_orange_cat]

those pics are not from the wilderness

I know that area pretty well means i have been riding since i was 9 that is the hill the that climbs up to the top of excelsior ridge as far as i know that is not considered a wilderness area. these dumb tree hugger's think they know all we need to put an end to all this nonsense.

 

[ruffryder]

would it be possible to make a google earth or google map that shows the boundry of the wilderness in this area?

this and baker might be really helpful

just a thought. I could try and do it, but I don't know where exactly the boundry is / are.

Though from the picture it does not look like the ridge I am thinking of??

I don't know, but it looks like there might be a bunch of misinformed people skiers and snowmobilers alike.

 

[newtrout]

would it be possible to make a google earth or google map that shows the boundry of the wilderness in this area?

this and baker might be really helpful

just a thought. I could try and do it, but I don't know where exactly the boundry is / are.

Though from the picture it does not look like the ridge I am thinking of??

I don't know, but it looks like there might be a bunch of misinformed people skiers and snowmobilers alike.

This site works pretty good. I linked directly to the map section. You can select Mount Baker Wilderness and then zoom in on aerial photos to whatever section you'd like.
http://wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS

Please, people. Stay out of Wilderness! It's a selfish, short-sighted act. I know a lot of the locals up there have been doing it for years and feel 'grandfathered in', but times are changing. Obviously sleds don't do any damage, but that's not the point. The laws are the laws. We don't get to pick and choose what laws we want to follow just because it's fun.

That area, in particular, gets a lot of foot traffic when the weather gets nice. This kind of publicity is the worst kind. NWhikers.net gets a lot of traffic. I use it all the time. We're going to get a whole new community riled up against us. Going over there and posting on their site is going to do nothing but make more enemies. These sledders were in the wrong and got photographed doing it. There's no valid excuses.

 

[Lake Cle Elum]

I would really hope no one on these forums rides the Wilderness, nor support those that do. It's our responsibility to know where the boundaries are and respect them. PERIOD.

I've ridden right to the line above Lake Ann (Longs Pass) and stopped to admire what looked like an endless untracked riding area........We need to play by the rules and leave it that way.......

 

[_AJ_]

Thanks for the link Newtrout-

That's really clear and helpful.

AJ

 

[little_orange_cat]

This site works pretty good. I linked directly to the map section. You can select Mount Baker Wilderness and then zoom in on aerial photos to whatever section you'd like.
http://wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS

Please, people. Stay out of Wilderness! It's a selfish, short-sighted act. I know a lot of the locals up there have been doing it for years and feel 'grandfathered in', but times are changing. Obviously sleds don't do any damage, but that's not the point. The laws are the laws. We don't get to pick and choose what laws we want to follow just because it's fun.

That area, in particular, gets a lot of foot traffic when the weather gets nice. This kind of publicity is the worst kind. NWhikers.net gets a lot of traffic. I use it all the time. We're going to get a whole new community riled up against us. Going over there and posting on their site is going to do nothing but make more enemies. These sledders were in the wrong and got photographed doing it. There's no valid excuses.

these sledders where not in the wrong i know that area and it is not wilderness if i am wrong i want you to mark it out on that map and show me where those sledders where
not trying to be a smart a## i can point that spot out on that map and it is within boundaries
how do i know i bent my rails on my snowmobile on that little bump that green sled is going over
ill take a few pictures this weekend and post it on there site to show them how knowledgeable of the area they really are

 

[newtrout]

these sledders where not in the wrong i know that area and it is not wilderness if i am wrong i want you to mark it out on that map and show me where those sledders where
not trying to be a smart a## i can point that spot out on that map and it is within boundaries
how do i know i bent my rails on my snowmobile on that little bump that green sled is going over
ill take a few pictures this weekend and post it on there site to show them how knowledgeable of the area they really are

Two issues here. You're right about the pictures. They don't show anything. Excelsior Peak is right on the boundary.

But, these hikers are talking about seeing these guys head off toward Welcome Pass and Yellow Aster Butte. Read their first post. Sure they might be lying; but I doubt it. All of us that have ridden up there have seen tracks heading off down the ridge to the east into Wilderness.

You can argue with them if you want, but we all know it's going on.

I'll admit I'm guilty of crossing through Wilderness getting up to Excelsior Peak. If you follow the normal route up through the trees and then cross through the alpine to the peak, you're riding in Wilderness. I didn't know it until Blindman pointed it out to me on a map. I should have educated myself. Funny that they don't have a sign posted on that standard snowmobile route, though.

 

[Chicken]

This site works pretty good. I linked directly to the map section. You can select Mount Baker Wilderness and then zoom in on aerial photos to whatever section you'd like.
http://wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS

Please, people. Stay out of Wilderness! It's a selfish, short-sighted act. I know a lot of the locals up there have been doing it for years and feel 'grandfathered in', but times are changing. Obviously sleds don't do any damage, but that's not the point. The laws are the laws. We don't get to pick and choose what laws we want to follow just because it's fun.

That area, in particular, gets a lot of foot traffic when the weather gets nice. This kind of publicity is the worst kind. NWhikers.net gets a lot of traffic. I use it all the time. We're going to get a whole new community riled up against us. Going over there and posting on their site is going to do nothing but make more enemies. These sledders were in the wrong and got photographed doing it. There's no valid excuses.

I need to stay off here because I understand both sides and I have a tendency to get worked up. Here is my concern.
1) You are accussing these sledders of doing wrong. I know for a fact that they were not in the wilderness in these pictures. If you know the area or have ever ridden it, you will know where it is.(I was being smart earlier when I said it was on the back side of the widow maker). It's located just inside the boundary where you pop up over the ridge and are heading towards Church Mt. The main hiking trail comes in right behind that knob on the left as you are heading down into the old snow stake play area.
2) Pretty sure the whole reason the whole "wilderness" area was created originally was to perserve the land. Atleast this was the main idea. The whole non motorized vehicle part was put in there so that the land was not destroyed. A snowmobile is different than any other motorized vehicle. Cars,dirt bikes,quads,ect all tear the ground up and tear up vegetation. As long as the snowmobiler is responsible there will be enough snow, that all vegetation is covered nothing would be destroyed by a sled. I wish I kept an article that was written on Yellowstone about twenty years ago. It showed a picture of a hill side all tracked up and torn up. The next picture showed the same area the next day after a snowfall. The next picture showed the same area in the summer after all the snow had melted. After the first picture the caption stated that the area looked virtually untouched. The next page showed a hill side with a hiking trail going through the middle of it. The caption in this picture asked a question. Who is doing more damage?
3)So why is it ok to go ridding in these area's when a hiker is lost? If its a law how can anyone give someone else permission to ride in these areas for what ever reason?
It's funny the Mt. Baker ski area is in the same wilderness area that we are discusing. But as long as there is money involved there is no problem. Permits or money for the goverment ect. Along the same note there are people who have been given permission by the dept. of Home Land Security to enter the wilderness if they see something suspicious in this area.

Just out of curiousity if these hikers don't like to hear these sleds for a minute as they pass by how do they feel about the choppers that patrol that area?

Seriously they make EAR PLUGS for a reason!!!

Well, if everyone uses common sense their shouldn't be an issue.

 

[ride]

its good that we are self policing. if you see some guys dropping into the wilderness... stop them! its stuff like this that will get our areas shut down in no time. there is plenty of area out there that is not wilderness to ride. no intelligence in jeopardizing what we have and have worked so hard to keep.

 

[ReTodd]

I need to stay off here because I understand both sides and I have a tendency to get worked up. Here is my concern.
1) You are accussing these sledders of doing wrong. I know for a fact that they were not in the wilderness in these pictures. If you know the area or have ever ridden it, you will know where it is.(I was being smart earlier when I said it was on the back side of the widow maker). It's located just inside the boundary where you pop up over the ridge and are heading towards Church Mt. The main hiking trail comes in right behind that knob on the left as you are heading down into the old snow stake play area.
2) Pretty sure the whole reason the whole "wilderness" area was created originally was to perserve the land. Atleast this was the main idea. The whole non motorized vehicle part was put in there so that the land was not destroyed. A snowmobile is different than any other motorized vehicle. Cars,dirt bikes,quads,ect all tear the ground up and tear up vegetation. As long as the snowmobiler is responsible there will be enough snow, that all vegetation is covered nothing would be destroyed by a sled. I wish I kept an article that was written on Yellowstone about twenty years ago. It showed a picture of a hill side all tracked up and torn up. The next picture showed the same area the next day after a snowfall. The next picture showed the same area in the summer after all the snow had melted. After the first picture the caption stated that the area looked virtually untouched. The next page showed a hill side with a hiking trail going through the middle of it. The caption in this picture asked a question. Who is doing more damage?
3)So why is it ok to go ridding in these area's when a hiker is lost? If its a law how can anyone give someone else permission to ride in these areas for what ever reason?
It's funny the Mt. Baker ski area is in the same wilderness area that we are discusing. But as long as there is money involved there is no problem. Permits or money for the goverment ect. Along the same note there are people who have been given permission by the dept. of Home Land Security to enter the wilderness if they see something suspicious in this area.

Just out of curiousity if these hikers don't like to hear these sleds for a minute as they pass by how do they feel about the choppers that patrol that area?

Seriously they make EAR PLUGS for a reason!!!

Well, if everyone uses common sense their shouldn't be an issue.

1st of all....I agree. 2nd...I agree. I have been accused by people of riding in wilderness areas when in fact, according to the GPS, I am a few hundy feet clear of it. Besides, I am tired of all the PC bullchit saying we should do this or not do that. I grew up where a broke down VW was a septic tank and you owned your property outright. You 48'ers are just way too soft and you get taken advantage of for it! If that means I can't be a member of your PC club then count me out anyway!

While I'm ranting, WTF does my son, who is 10, not allowed to give a valentines day card to a girl he has a crush on unless he gives an equivalent card/gift to every jerk, retard, or fatass in his class! Who TF killed valentines day? I guess Darwinism is out the window now....natural selection is dead and we can de-evolve into a society of mediocrity!

Rt

 

[winter brew]

LOL!! Jerks, retards and fatass's need lovin' too!

 

[Snowlover]

Great map site Newtrout. Anyone know if you can get the wilderness boundries saved as a file that can be added to your GPS? If you can get it on google map, you should be able to select the path/boundry and save it as a kml to transfer to a gpx, then to Garmin's?

Not sure they are claiming that the pictures of the sleds are in fact in the wilderness area. They are claiming they saw those same sleds coming out or going into the wilderness area.

Civil disobedience has always been a way to stand up for your beliefs or rights. I don't favor that in Wilderness cases because the enviro wackos have so much money and clueless people behind their cause, so these displays only fire up their people.

 

[newtrout]

Great map site Newtrout. Anyone know if you can get the wilderness boundries saved as a file that can be added to your GPS? If you can get it on google map, you should be able to select the path/boundry and save it as a kml to transfer to a gpx, then to Garmin's?

Not sure they are claiming that the pictures of the sleds are in fact in the wilderness area. They are claiming they saw those same sleds coming out or going into the wilderness area.

Civil disobedience has always been a way to stand up for your beliefs or rights. I don't favor that in Wilderness cases because the enviro wackos have so much money and clueless people behind their cause, so these displays only fire up their people.

On the same map page, check the drop down menu for print/view/download. It gives a .kml file as an option. Pretty cool.