Last week went to the free avy class that Ski Doo is sponsoring. Mike Duffy is putting it on and he did an amazing job for a 4 hour class. I have shovel probe beacon and training. Just bought an avy bag. I have come to the conclusion that the bag is the most important piece of equipment I own for saving me from an avalanche. Bought bags for my boys. If somebody asked me what to get and they had very limited resources I would tell them to get a bag FIRST. I didn't get this from Mike Duffy. Just my educated opinion. If I didn't have a bag I wouldn't ride with somebody who didn't have a beacon, just a bag. If you ride by yourself, get a bag. Only chance you have. If you ride with knuckleheads get a bag, you are basically on your own anyway. If you ride with strangers, get a bag. I think MOST people can truly afford ALL the gear, bag, beacon, shovel and probe. It would have to be a pretty extreme case of poverty too excuse the no beacon shovel or probe strategy. The bags are 98% effective in keeping the users head above the snow. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BE BURIED. Prolly going to get shelled for this opinion.
Beacon or Avy bag? What's more important?
- Thread starter Matte Murder
- Start date
What good is a bag on you when your buddy is burried and you dont have a beacon?
IMO Beacon first, and to be out riding avy terrain/backcountry by yourself is dumb and i would never do that for a long list of reason.
I own bag, beacon, shovel, probe.
S
SledsWest
Well-known member
Get both, no excuses! The bag is for you, the beacon is to find somebody else that doesn't have a bag...and hopefully has a beacon. I can't imagine the helpless feeling when somebody yells "avalanche, we need your help finding our buddy. Please help us" and you don't have a beacon to help look for a buried person. Also, a beacon could still be very useful if you deployed your bag, got knocked unconscious during the slide and maybe got buried just enough that your buddies can't see you to get your head above the snow.
98% rate when you pull the cord.
Beacon, shovel, probe, training, practice, and dig a pit. Bag if you have the cash, as I think they're a great tool, but absolutely not the primary tool.
Beacon, shovel, probe, training, practice, and dig a pit. Bag if you have the cash, as I think they're a great tool, but absolutely not the primary tool.
That's a dangerous conclusion. Airbags are excellent, yes, but they are not guaranteed. You could still find yourself buried.
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slednutz
Active member
Althought I do agree that the best bet for saving yourself would be a bag how could you possibly not get a beacon, probe, shovel first. How helpless would you feel if you were to come across an avy and have to try and help somebody or even within your own group and you had no beacon. It is a no brainer to spend the money on of these things before anything else. It really bugs me to see people who will spend money on brand new sleds, turbo's, and other things and say that a avy bag is expensive. I thought cat did a really good deal last year as having an avy bag and shovel as one of their sno-check options.
Knew I was gonna get shelled. I would always help someone but I'm not losing sleep over other people going into the back country totally un-prepared either. I do have beacon, only ride with people who have beacons but I think the bag is the primary tool for saving my life. Searchers with beacons find a lot of bodies. Awesome, you found my body. 98% is odds I am going to bet on. Still think it's the primary. I also don't buy the argument most of the time that "I can't afford it" but if I was going to choose it's still the bag. Most people, I bet over 80% couldn't conduct a beacon search under stress either.
The simple fact is the more tools that are available, the better the chances for a positive outcome.
Your brain is a tool to evaluate not only the avy conditions, but also the terrain and how you ride. Ie, if the danger is higher and there are places that have to be crossed, use the one person at a time, avoid terrain traps, and stainer situations with rocks and trees.
The ABS is an awesome tool if the above fails. However a friend of mine was involved in an avy this year where he wasn't able to deploy his ABS and was lucky enough to not be buried. He was strained through some trees, but his injuries weren't serious luckily.
A beacon is a tool to possibly save your life and anybody else that you might come across. 10 years ago I came across a group with a guy that had just been buried just minutes earlier. My group all had beacons, probes and shovels. The victim was NOT wearing a beacon and guess what his chance of dying was? yup, 100%. That man might have had a small chance with a beacon, but at least he had a chance. It was a pretty ****ty feeling riding the rest of the day, knowing that guy was dead and it could have been prevented. I also beg to differ on not being able to find somebody in a search, I have practiced with my T2 and it is a very simple process. If you have a beacon you need to practice finding it.
Your brain is a tool to evaluate not only the avy conditions, but also the terrain and how you ride. Ie, if the danger is higher and there are places that have to be crossed, use the one person at a time, avoid terrain traps, and stainer situations with rocks and trees.
The ABS is an awesome tool if the above fails. However a friend of mine was involved in an avy this year where he wasn't able to deploy his ABS and was lucky enough to not be buried. He was strained through some trees, but his injuries weren't serious luckily.
A beacon is a tool to possibly save your life and anybody else that you might come across. 10 years ago I came across a group with a guy that had just been buried just minutes earlier. My group all had beacons, probes and shovels. The victim was NOT wearing a beacon and guess what his chance of dying was? yup, 100%. That man might have had a small chance with a beacon, but at least he had a chance. It was a pretty ****ty feeling riding the rest of the day, knowing that guy was dead and it could have been prevented. I also beg to differ on not being able to find somebody in a search, I have practiced with my T2 and it is a very simple process. If you have a beacon you need to practice finding it.
A
aksnopro
Well-known member
hm
i dunno, i think i would rather have the bag first, the bag keeps you on top and most people die from getting thrown to the bottom of an avalanche and ground up like a meat grinder. if your on top, you can possibly rescue yourself.
i have both but if i had to choose between one of the other, i would probably choose a bag, because not everyone has a beacon (i have 3) but look at the testing with those bags, they really do stay on top! and the #'s they claim for survival rate when successfully deployed are impressive.
but i agree both are key, and dont just own one, PRACTICE USING IT.
-Aksnopro
i dunno, i think i would rather have the bag first, the bag keeps you on top and most people die from getting thrown to the bottom of an avalanche and ground up like a meat grinder. if your on top, you can possibly rescue yourself.
i have both but if i had to choose between one of the other, i would probably choose a bag, because not everyone has a beacon (i have 3) but look at the testing with those bags, they really do stay on top! and the #'s they claim for survival rate when successfully deployed are impressive.
but i agree both are key, and dont just own one, PRACTICE USING IT.
-Aksnopro
I havent bought a bag yet, prob will this year. My number one key to survival is staying the f ck out of avy dangers, as best I can anyway, we all have beacons and require the people we ride with to have them.
1st-don't ride the avy (most proven)
2nd-beacon, shovel, prob etc...
3rd-bag
1st-don't ride the avy (most proven)
2nd-beacon, shovel, prob etc...
3rd-bag
You may have got "shelled", but you brought up an interesting point and generated a pretty good conversation here. That's the purpose of a forum.
You're probably right about some people being unable to operate a beacon under stress. A few years back we had a couple of near misses with some slides, and after that we spent a little bit of time practicing with our beacons. After a bit of practice I was way more comfortable knowing I could actually use it if need be. I personally won't go out with a particular beacon unless I've spent some time with it and am comfortable. An actual avalanche is not the time to figure out how to use it.
I still say the beacon is #1, but that is just my opinion. Whether you choose beacon, airbag, or both, learn how to use it.
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St0rm77
Active member
i believe the beacon should be first in this case; but the proper training from reputable trainers is a big plus in being able to effectively use the equipment how its meant to be used.
when we did our avy course and some rescue techniques, our search went from 9 minutes for 4 burials (spare beacons in back-packs), to a little over 1 and a half minutes for the same burials.
get the tools and deffinately learn AND practice how to use them.
-B
when we did our avy course and some rescue techniques, our search went from 9 minutes for 4 burials (spare beacons in back-packs), to a little over 1 and a half minutes for the same burials.
get the tools and deffinately learn AND practice how to use them.
-B
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PalousePoo
Well-known member
Interesting conversation. Two of my buddies don't know which end is up on thier beacons. That's why I bought an ABS last year. My beacon, i figure, is to help find them, cause they will never find me in time.
Hmm, I would do my best to teach my buddies how to use a beacon or point them in the direction of someone who can. I probably wouldn't ride with them until they were prepared to find me if the ****e hits the fan.
The bag isn't foolproof either, what if it malfunctions?
in my opinion, we use all the tools out there, not one over the other.
