Ballistic Battery installed on M1100T

[catweasel]

In my quest to put the big Cat on a diet, I decided to try the Ballistic Battery. I was shocked at how small and light it is at 2.44 pounds. When holding it, it is feather light. The stock battery has to be over 10 pounds easliy. I left it outside for a few days to see how it did in the cold. It was 9 degrees last night so I went ahead with the install. Here is the battery-

http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/12cell.php

More CCA than stock and gauranteed to work down to 0 degrees.

It is not a striaght foward install. I had to make some modifications to make it fit right.

I saw someone back in December install one and the wrapped it in aluminum foil. Nothing against them, but I would never wrap a battery in conductive material. I ordered the foam insert for an extra 7.00.

First I set the battery in the foam and cut the foam down till it was apporximatly the size of the stock battery. I then ran into my first problem. The terminals on the new battery have a small plastic trim on the inner and top sides. The aluminum plate would not sit flush on the battery or clear the terminals. You can't turn the battery upsidedown because the cables are way too short. I ground these off.

I then ran into my second problem. The aluminum plate that secures the batter touched the terminals on both sides since they are much closer together than the stock one. Sparks did fly. I took an angle die grinder with a small grinding wheel and ground down the sides till I had 3/4 inch clearance on both sides.

Got everything hooked up and ran into problem number three. Since the terminals are closer, they line up with the bolts that hold the aluminum plate on. The terminals were too close to them for my liking. I cut about a 1/2 inch of foam off the bottom of the insert so the battery would sit lower, giving me about 3/4 of inch clearance on the bolts. I took some of the foam I had cut off and glued it to the bottom of the aluminum plate to secure the battery. Bolted everything down, installed the seat, and she fired right up.

187.00 for the battery and 7.00 for the insert for a 10 pound diet. Not bad.

 

[Jeff C]

Looks great!!

What I am still waiting for is how these batteries perform in -10 degree (Fahrenheight) temps to start a cold engine.

Any troubles starting on a cold morning?

 

[KSH]

Looks great!!

What I am still waiting for is how these batteries perform in -10 degree (Fahrenheight) temps to start a cold engine.

Any troubles starting on a cold morning?

I started mine in -8 to -20 degree weather in West.

It take 3 to five minutes of repeated tries, but it starts it and does not drain the battery.

 

[MTdream]

You won't have a problem, installed it have ran it at zero degrees....no issues

 

[beturbo]

I have a anti gravity 12 cell. It will not start it at 0. Had to go get something to eat and let it sight in the sun for a hour or two. Not a real big deal but if it was real cold would have to spend the day at the bar, not all that would be real bad either.

 

[JustBoostIt]

Lithium and the cold

We've sold a couple dozen Antigravity batteries, mostly 12 cell. I've started mine as low as -33C, around -26F. Didn't even turn over at that, 6 cycles later it started. All less than a 2 minute deal. Colder it gets the more cycling it takes but it's never failed to start. Our regular temps are -12C so that was extreme. I relocated mine to in front of the pipe. Saved some wire weight and easier to access if u have to, i put the belt in old location.

 

[beturbo]

I only cycled it about 2 times. I should have tried more, I quess it really didn't mater worked this way too.

 

[TurboDHC-2]

I purchased the same Ballistic Battery. It works great down to -10C for me. Below that (-15C and colder) I have to take the seat off and blast it with the heat gun or interior car warmer for 2-5 mins to get going. I spent 10 minutes one morning at the bush cabin with my jacket over my head and the battery, blowing on it and holding my hands on it wherever I could touch it to warm it up enough to start the machine. PITA to remove it and bring it in every night and then reinstall it in the morning just to go home.

 

[toony]

These batterys will warm themselves up...Just cycle it let it sit for 10-15 sec...cycle again....Repeat until it starts. I have the 12 cell Anti-gravity and never have had trouble starting in any weather. I've had them in my nytro's and in my M1100t.

 

[Jeff C]

A quick disconnect system would come in handy to pop the battery out, keep it in the cabin, then quickly install it in the morning......

 

[MTdream]

you guys are WAYYYYY over thinking and scoping this...

the two batteries are radically different technologies...

Install a little switch, that triggers a grip heater or something....wait 1-2 minutes...the amperage draw, is what causes the Lithium Ferrous particles to wake up and start dancing, which allows you to start your sled without an issue...

Here is a pic of where I installed mine...mine is the 8 cell...small one...

Here is the switch....

Here is a pic of the little battery bag...which contains a left over grip heater, wired to the battery through the switch...

Here is a bag opened up....

Have had the sled left for a week, temps at 0 over night, started sled on third try (without the switch/heater turned on) without an issue...Used the heater once, switched it on, put stuff in packs got ready for trip...(no more than 2-3 minutes later) sled started right up, not even a hesitation with the start up...

Dont overthink this, but also dont try and apply lead acid battery logic to it...completely different stuff...but WELL worth the savings...

 

[catweasel]

Wouldn't simply turning the key on for a couple of minutes do it since it would be drawing amperage? (gauge, lights, etc....)

 

[JustBoostIt]

Warming up the lithium

Anything producing a draw, charging the 2-way while you load up is good too. After running i've never has an issue, even better now with it beside the pipe.

 

[Turbo11T]

Well I was the guy who wrapped my foam in aluminum duct tape. There was a reason for this, Also no issues with the conductive material as it isn't wrapped by the terminals.

I have the 12cell ballistic. It works well. Started it at -15f in west a couple mornings. You need to try to start the sled. Say maybe 3 4-5sec tries in a row. Then walk away for a couple minutes and it always worked the next try.

 

[damx]

justboostit do you have a picture of the batt, beside the pipe?

 

[TurboDHC-2]

Some good suggestions and info guys. First I want to be clear I am NOT bashing this battery, just offering my experience. I weighed both when I bought it and was impressed with the weight savings. It would not still be on my machine after 3 months if I didn't like it. I have tried cycling (multiple times before I pulled the gloves and jacket off the first time) AND leaving a draw on (hardwired GPS) at the same time. I just accept that sometimes my days and conditions up north are extreme (-15 to -42 Celcius or +5 to -43F) compared to most, and it is in the negative F range where I just have some more work to do to get going for now. A battery blanket (or the grip heater hardwired to the battery and a switch and stuck to the battery) are options for me. I looked at the Poo battery heater but it is an aluminum C channel with an element on its bottom and more suited to a battery box than a fuel tank.

 

[JustBoostIt]

Ballistic vs Antigravity

I have been around both and I prefer the Antigravity fit and finish. I haven't been around both at the same time in -30C, but the from what I have heard the Ballistic might not work as well the colder it gets. We have sold a handfull of the 16 cell for those that were concerned, but after seeing what mine did I wouldn't be afraid of only selling the 12 cell.

Tig'd up a little box and riveted it to the floor pan. Mounted the selenoid to the frame. Soldered on new ends I grabbed from my car audio shop. Used a hood hinge pin I found and a cotter pin to secure. I've boosted a couple of Yami's and what a pain that was so viola! That and I like farmer customs and one offs.

I have a 2.5" straight pipe going on with the divorced downpipe but I'll probably still trim up a chunk of the muffler wrap from a M8 to wrap around it. I did that on the Antigravity 12 cell we put on the JL stereo sled and worked great. I have vented side panels as well so should be okay for heat.

 

[Murph]

I have been watching these battery threads for awhile and formulating a response. I apologize in advance for this being long-winded....

In the interest of full disclosure, I am the Director of Motorsports for Speedcell Technologies we make Lithium batteries for powersport applications.

I want to give you some information so that you can make an informed decision without simply saying we are great and everybody else sucks.

When it comes to Lithium batteries, there is more misinformation out there than legitimate information. Some of it is intentionally misleading, some of it is simply because some of these "battery companies" really don't know what they are doing-- they aren't actually battery companies, they are merely resellers of Chinese made products. Even things that should be straight forward are not always what they appear to be. What is even more disturbing is that some of these "battery companies" actually seem to believe some of their own marketing materials. Speedcell Technologies is the Motorsports division of Navitus. Navitus was started by a veteran (15 year)-- USMC Force Recon. Navitus is a U.S. Department of Energy and US Department of Defense contractor-- cage code 1VC84. Many of you are former or current military and understand the significance of a cage code, this will be pertinent further in the discussion.

Here goes.....

Lithium DOES have limitations in cold weather applications--as does lead acid (what the OEMs use now in their snowmobiles). The strategy that the OEMs use to overcome cold weather performance degradation is capacity. Most OEMs have a "performance envelope" of -30 to +30 degrees. This is why most OEMs batteries are 16 to 20 amp hour even though many people (SnoWesters) will tell you that a 7 amp hour battery will work just fine-- it will as long as it isn't too cold out or the sled was in a trailer or heated garage. Try and start a Nytro that has been outside for a week in -30 temperatures with a 7 amp hour battery and it will prove my point. As a technology platform, lithium can use the same strategy of excess capacity to overcome cold weather performance degradation. Even with excess capacity, the Lithium platform is still smaller and lighter than its lead acid equivalent due to the fact that lithium is more energy dense.

Not all lithium batteries are created equally. A battery's performance is dependent on the quality of cells inside. The cell manufacturers even have different levels of "quality" in the cells they offer. Why does this matter to you, the consumer/ end user? The cell quality typically determines two important factors when it comes to battery "performance"-- 1. starting power ( ability to overcome motor inertia and spin the motor fast enough to fire), 2. Longevity- lithium batteries are susceptible to overdischarge -- even more suseptible then lead acid-- if the individual cells are not balanced properly and one discharges more than the others in a start cycle, the battery can be rendered inoperable. At Speedcell, we use A-grade A123 cells because they are the most energy dense and have the highest quality. Many of our competitors claim to use A123 cells, and some of them do, but they are not the A-grade cells. The reason that I can make this claim is that A123 will not sell A-grade cells to a company that does not have a US government issued cage code. As I stated previously, Speedcell through its parent company Navitus, has a cage code-- 1VC84. Our products are built in our facility in Las Cruces, New Mexico. We supply battery systems to the DoE and the DoD. If you have a custom application or need, we can build a unique solution for you. Call our competitors and tell them that you need a custom battery built for size, layout, capacity, etc-- see what they say. It's real easy to determine who actually is a battery company versus a "battery company" (i.e. reseller of foreign products)

Who uses Speedcell?
Department of Energy
Department of Defense
Monster Energy Graves Yamaha (AMA Superbike factory team)
Yoshimura Suzuki Racing (AMA Superbike factory team)
M4 Broaster Chicken Suzuki (AMA Superbike)
Geico Suzuki (AMA Daytona Sportbike)
M4 Broaster Chicken Suzuki (AMA Daytona Sportbike)
Y.E.S. Graves Yamaha (AMA Daytona Sportbike factory team)
Roadrace Factory RedBull Yamaha (AMA Daytona Sportbike team)

At the last AMA round April 20-22 at Road Atlanta, Speedcell took ALL twelve podium positions in the four Superbike/ Daytona Sportbike races. ALL twelve. Why does this matter?....because every battery that has been discussed in this thread is available to the teams, and they all choose Speedcell.



Why else should you choose Speedcell?

We are snowmobilers

We actively support keeping riding areas open. We are currently drafting a corporate policy to divert a percentage of snowmobile battery sales profits to groups that fight land closures

We truly are an American company, building American products--cage code 1VC84

Ask your dealer to carry Speedcell. If they don't, feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
Murph

 

[Murph]

you guys are WAYYYYY over thinking and scoping this...

the two batteries are radically different technologies...

Install a little switch, that triggers a grip heater or something....wait 1-2 minutes...the amperage draw, is what causes the Lithium Ferrous particles to wake up and start dancing, which allows you to start your sled without an issue...

Here is a pic of where I installed mine...mine is the 8 cell...small one...

Here is the switch....

Here is a pic of the little battery bag...which contains a left over grip heater, wired to the battery through the switch...

Here is a bag opened up....

Have had the sled left for a week, temps at 0 over night, started sled on third try (without the switch/heater turned on) without an issue...Used the heater once, switched it on, put stuff in packs got ready for trip...(no more than 2-3 minutes later) sled started right up, not even a hesitation with the start up...

Dont overthink this, but also dont try and apply lead acid battery logic to it...completely different stuff...but WELL worth the savings...

Jeremy,

Great explanation of battery "pre-heat" cycle.

One thing to remember, make sure you turn off ALL parasitic draws from a Lithium battery.

Lithium batteries are great BUT one of their limitations (regardless of brand) is over discharge. This is one area where lead acid is superior, lead acid is much more robust when it comes to recovery from over discharge.

Because of this, all Speedcell batteries are sold with a dual pole Anderson style SSY connector. It is the same connector that we use in our military applications. It is rated for 100 g's and yet is easy to disconnect and bring the battery inside at night if desired or to disconnect at the end of the season.

 

[Matte Murder]

Can you hurt these batteries by jumping them? On our race cars we would wire in a mil spec quick disconnect plug that was easy to access so if the battery was weak, especially on pre-grid, we could quickly and easily jump start them with a battery pack. Sounds like running the Speedcell 12 cell would eliminate all of the cold start problems anyway.