Planed on camping this weekend. I know the avy danger is high but ive ridden up there in shirt sleeve weather before. Been going up there in the spring for years and never seen any avys. has anyone seen avys in the schrieber/ lookout and bigouse areas?
Baker
- Thread starter rato
- Start date
Bighouse slide 5+ years ago causing a death. Becareful up there.
P.P.
P.P.
M
modsledr
Well-known member
Just because you haven't seen it in years past with different snow pack and snow conditions doesn't mean the danger isn't real now.
Like PP said, BigHouse slid a few years back with far less snow than this year...and a sledder died.
be careful...live to ride another day.
modsledr
Any more? Like conditions, weather leading up to it, and also where on Big House it slid? It is kind of big. Was up there today, played around down lower and slowly worked our way up. Lots of slides off the rocks and cornices... but not much where we were riding except for cornices...little wet slides from sidehills.
So for those more informed, with this long 4 days of hot and sun, how will the progression of danger be? Like is Sunday going to be the worst? I know it is a difficult question to answer ... to many variables. But more on the science of it. Does instability of snowpack increase every day it is warm and sunny after it hasn't been, or is a major change in temperature worse for snowpack instability? Or does it just level out at poor instability till it comes down.
Thanks for any info.
Oh, almost forgot the report. Parking has left the lower lot and moved up maybe 100 yards or so. Still almost 3-4 feet in the next snopark then it goes bare up the last switch backs for 1/4 mile or so. Makes the sled feel like an ATV. Trail is good, but the snow is good enough to bypass it in several areas....
Last edited:
R-ryder...............when BigHouse slid, it was pretty much the whole face. The rider that was killed climbed the hill and turned out at the top followed by the whole hill coming down. It did not help that he did not have on a beacon.
P.P.
Avalanche Accident Report for April 11, 2001
—near Mt Baker, Washington
One snowmobiler caught, buried and killed
South side of Mt. Baker, Snowmobile Avalanche-Fatality Report
Report prepared by Brandon Weathermon; Bellingham Mountain Rescue 04/13/01
A. General Information
1. Date: April 11, 2001
2. Time: approx. 10:00 am
3. Exact Location: 48°44.50N, 121°49.46W ; 6390 feet; just East of the Metcalfe Moraine on the North Cascade Volcano, Mt. Baker in Washington State
4. Accident: 1 person caught; 1 completely buried; 1 killed
5. Victim: 31-yr. old male, Everett, Washington
6. Witnesses: 3 other snowmobilers travelling with the victim witnessed the event
7. Damage: No damage occurred to buildings or lifts
B. Accident Summary
Winter seemed to finally arrive in Washington during the spring of 2001. With snowpack levels in the Mt. Baker region some 70% below normal for the year, the Governor of Washington State declared a state of drought for Washington State by the middle of March.
A series of winter storms blanketed the northwest beginning March 25th. This first storm system on the 25th may have also contributed to the death of two climbers on Mt. Baker, one of which was recovered the same day of this avalanche incident.
The morning of April 11th, sunny skies and strong northwesterly winds were evident in the Bellingham area, but winds where reported to be calm on the mountain during the time of the incident.
A group of four snowmobilers from the Seattle area annually visit the slopes on the South side of Mt. Baker in the spring. Around 10:00 the group had reached the 6400' level. The victim reportedly headed up a large bowl-like slope reaching approx. 6800' then made a turn down slope. Witnesses indicated that the slope fractured "out in front of him" and that he ran into the slide on his way downslope. The point last scene was approximately 10 feet below the crown, mid-slope. Witnesses did not see the subject run into the avalanche and become entrapped as they were moving out of the slide path to avoid being caught.
C. Search
The party quickly scuff searched the debris field; no one in the party carried avalanche transceivers, probes or shovels. Other snowmobiles began to arrive, many with transceivers, probes and shovels. Around 10:30 a 911 cell phone call was made, and by 11:00 am Bellingham Mountain Rescue team members and the Whatcom County Snowmobile club had been paged out. The Whidbey Island Naval Air Station was contacted and provided helicopter support for the incident.
Whidbey helicopter Firewood 6 was able land below the incident, dropping off one Mountain Rescue team member who was then transported to the scene by snowmobile around 13:30.
Arrival on scene showed approximately 25 other snowmobilers searching the scene, some with probes randomly spot probing areas. The victim's snowmobile had been located and dug out. The tip of on one of the skis had been found above the snow surface. Subsequent probing around the snowmobile revealed the victim's helmet.
Rescuers organized coarse probe lines utilizing snowmobilers equipped with transceivers, posted avalanche guards and identified escape routes. Four other Mountain Rescue team members arrived on scene around 15:00 with armloads of probes for the many snowmobilers willing to help. Around 17:00 two Mountain Rescue dogs and handlers arrived on scene and began searching.
Around 17:30 the subject was probed utilizing a closed order, course probe. The victim was buried approx. 3.5 feet deep in a prone position, head down slope, and one arm reaching forward. Victim was pulse-less, apnec and cyanotic. Subject was approx. 150' up-slope from where the snowmobile and helmet had been recovered, roughly in line of travel from point last scene. The subject was airlifted to St. Joseph's hospital in Bellingham, WA and pronounced dead some 45 minutes later. Subjects core temp was noted to be around 80° F.
D. Weather and Snowpack Data (Also see additional weather data below)
1. Weather: A strong system had moved through the area on the morning and afternoon of the 10th. The evening of the 10th and morning of the 11th skies were clear. The Mt. Baker Ski Area, 9 miles away on the North side of Mt. Baker at 4200', reported 6 inches of new snow by 13:00 on the 10th. On the morning of the 11th no new snow was reported at the ski area since late on the previous morning, temperature was 26° at 0700, 36° at 1300
2. Snowpack: The snow surface around and above the accident scene showed evidence of high winds and heavy snow transport. An ice layer was probed at most locations to be approx. 3' deep.
3. Danger Rating: The Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center had rated the danger Considerable above 4000', Moderate below, except for locally high danger on steep sun exposed slopes (see Ancillary Section below for further weather and avalanche information).
E. Avalanche Data
1. Class: HS-AO-2-0
2. Dimensions: approx. 150 yards across; 1000 feet of run
3. Crown Face: 1.5-2.5 feet deep for most of crown; estimated
4. Depth of Debris: 1-8 feet
5. Other: Bowl like wind loaded slope.
F. Terrain Data
1. Crown Line elevation: approx. 6850 feet
2. Toe elevation: approx. 6200 feet
3. Starting Zone angle: estimated at 32-34 degrees
4. Vegetative cover: open
5. Shape of avalanche path: open-gully
6. Slope Aspect: South
G. Conclusions:
Several snowmobilers volunteering in probe lines at the accident scene were very vocal about how the victim's lack of wearing an avalanche transceiver was extremely frustrating. Of the group of snowmobilers on scene 50% appeared to be equipped with transceivers.
Effective probing of an avalanche area usually requires substantial resources. In this case, the participation of other snowmobilers was a key factor in the successful location of the subject. Without them, the subject would not have been located the same day.
P.P.
Avalanche Accident Report for April 11, 2001
—near Mt Baker, Washington
One snowmobiler caught, buried and killed
South side of Mt. Baker, Snowmobile Avalanche-Fatality Report
Report prepared by Brandon Weathermon; Bellingham Mountain Rescue 04/13/01
A. General Information
1. Date: April 11, 2001
2. Time: approx. 10:00 am
3. Exact Location: 48°44.50N, 121°49.46W ; 6390 feet; just East of the Metcalfe Moraine on the North Cascade Volcano, Mt. Baker in Washington State
4. Accident: 1 person caught; 1 completely buried; 1 killed
5. Victim: 31-yr. old male, Everett, Washington
6. Witnesses: 3 other snowmobilers travelling with the victim witnessed the event
7. Damage: No damage occurred to buildings or lifts
B. Accident Summary
Winter seemed to finally arrive in Washington during the spring of 2001. With snowpack levels in the Mt. Baker region some 70% below normal for the year, the Governor of Washington State declared a state of drought for Washington State by the middle of March.
A series of winter storms blanketed the northwest beginning March 25th. This first storm system on the 25th may have also contributed to the death of two climbers on Mt. Baker, one of which was recovered the same day of this avalanche incident.
The morning of April 11th, sunny skies and strong northwesterly winds were evident in the Bellingham area, but winds where reported to be calm on the mountain during the time of the incident.
A group of four snowmobilers from the Seattle area annually visit the slopes on the South side of Mt. Baker in the spring. Around 10:00 the group had reached the 6400' level. The victim reportedly headed up a large bowl-like slope reaching approx. 6800' then made a turn down slope. Witnesses indicated that the slope fractured "out in front of him" and that he ran into the slide on his way downslope. The point last scene was approximately 10 feet below the crown, mid-slope. Witnesses did not see the subject run into the avalanche and become entrapped as they were moving out of the slide path to avoid being caught.
C. Search
The party quickly scuff searched the debris field; no one in the party carried avalanche transceivers, probes or shovels. Other snowmobiles began to arrive, many with transceivers, probes and shovels. Around 10:30 a 911 cell phone call was made, and by 11:00 am Bellingham Mountain Rescue team members and the Whatcom County Snowmobile club had been paged out. The Whidbey Island Naval Air Station was contacted and provided helicopter support for the incident.
Whidbey helicopter Firewood 6 was able land below the incident, dropping off one Mountain Rescue team member who was then transported to the scene by snowmobile around 13:30.
Arrival on scene showed approximately 25 other snowmobilers searching the scene, some with probes randomly spot probing areas. The victim's snowmobile had been located and dug out. The tip of on one of the skis had been found above the snow surface. Subsequent probing around the snowmobile revealed the victim's helmet.
Rescuers organized coarse probe lines utilizing snowmobilers equipped with transceivers, posted avalanche guards and identified escape routes. Four other Mountain Rescue team members arrived on scene around 15:00 with armloads of probes for the many snowmobilers willing to help. Around 17:00 two Mountain Rescue dogs and handlers arrived on scene and began searching.
Around 17:30 the subject was probed utilizing a closed order, course probe. The victim was buried approx. 3.5 feet deep in a prone position, head down slope, and one arm reaching forward. Victim was pulse-less, apnec and cyanotic. Subject was approx. 150' up-slope from where the snowmobile and helmet had been recovered, roughly in line of travel from point last scene. The subject was airlifted to St. Joseph's hospital in Bellingham, WA and pronounced dead some 45 minutes later. Subjects core temp was noted to be around 80° F.
D. Weather and Snowpack Data (Also see additional weather data below)
1. Weather: A strong system had moved through the area on the morning and afternoon of the 10th. The evening of the 10th and morning of the 11th skies were clear. The Mt. Baker Ski Area, 9 miles away on the North side of Mt. Baker at 4200', reported 6 inches of new snow by 13:00 on the 10th. On the morning of the 11th no new snow was reported at the ski area since late on the previous morning, temperature was 26° at 0700, 36° at 1300
2. Snowpack: The snow surface around and above the accident scene showed evidence of high winds and heavy snow transport. An ice layer was probed at most locations to be approx. 3' deep.
3. Danger Rating: The Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center had rated the danger Considerable above 4000', Moderate below, except for locally high danger on steep sun exposed slopes (see Ancillary Section below for further weather and avalanche information).
E. Avalanche Data
1. Class: HS-AO-2-0
2. Dimensions: approx. 150 yards across; 1000 feet of run
3. Crown Face: 1.5-2.5 feet deep for most of crown; estimated
4. Depth of Debris: 1-8 feet
5. Other: Bowl like wind loaded slope.
F. Terrain Data
1. Crown Line elevation: approx. 6850 feet
2. Toe elevation: approx. 6200 feet
3. Starting Zone angle: estimated at 32-34 degrees
4. Vegetative cover: open
5. Shape of avalanche path: open-gully
6. Slope Aspect: South
G. Conclusions:
Several snowmobilers volunteering in probe lines at the accident scene were very vocal about how the victim's lack of wearing an avalanche transceiver was extremely frustrating. Of the group of snowmobilers on scene 50% appeared to be equipped with transceivers.
Effective probing of an avalanche area usually requires substantial resources. In this case, the participation of other snowmobilers was a key factor in the successful location of the subject. Without them, the subject would not have been located the same day.
Last edited:
P
powder Head
Active member
We had 2 days of rain. Reported to be 2 to 3 inches. then we get the sun Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and probably Saturday. The Sun softens up the snow which sends the rain water down to the last frozen level and in some cases depending on the depth of snow could be all the way to the ground level. The more sun the more unstable the snow. If your walking or sledding and your foot or ski goes 2 to 3 or more inches from the surface then you probably shoudn't be riding on that slope. Plus if the cornices drop then can trigger a slide below it because of the added pressure.
I'm not an expert by any means, but have taken several extensive avy classes. After you take those classes it really wakes you up, because every day and every year is different. Just my two and a half cents worht, be safe...........
I'm not an expert by any means, but have taken several extensive avy classes. After you take those classes it really wakes you up, because every day and every year is different. Just my two and a half cents worht, be safe...........
I think back to early season, December??? When we had about 2 ft of snow and then a warming and freezing rain. I'm guessing that icy layer down deep will play a role also.
Will still be a good day to just get out, get some sun and meet some people....be safe!
Will still be a good day to just get out, get some sun and meet some people....be safe!
M
mtn mike on boost
Well-known member
funny you say that paul. i took my first avy class this year and the instructor had some real concernes about that event. he said it could possibly cause some of the biggest slides we have seen around here.....
ill be up there saturday, but plan on being extra careful. lucky for me(i guess)my turbo is at turbo doc and ill only have my back up to ride. less likely to get into trouble that way
ill be up there saturday, but plan on being extra careful. lucky for me(i guess)my turbo is at turbo doc and ill only have my back up to ride. less likely to get into trouble that way
D
deepdiver
Well-known member
More info
Like others have said....mountain conditions can and will change without notice. The snow you were on in the morning may be totally different by the time you head down. Right now conditions on slopes greater than 30deg will be very unstable...many of the steeper hills will "fix" themselves...it is the ones that anybody can go up that need some help(like 700lbs of sled and rider to break them loose.
I see you are from Chelan...I am a former Search/Rescue team leader for Chelan Sherrifs dept. I have been on three body recoverys(no beacons on any of them) One in the Navaho..one in the Blewett area(not the typical Blewett places that people ride. Then there was a bad one near Conconelly(sp?) That one had only 3-4ft of snow. There were a Father and his son at the bottom of a hill and someone not in their group went and did a big sidehill above them...the hill came down all the way to the frozen dirt! Now do the math take 600ft across and 800 ft downhill times 4 ft. and you will see how deep the white concrete was at the bottom. The son did not make it and the father was partially buried...I could only imagine the thoughts that the Father had as he was able to have his head above the snow but couldnt do anything.
If you have to side hill do it only when you are ready to leave an area. Aftewr reading this you will understand why if I am at the base of a hill and you or anyone cuts the hill above me...I can garrantee that you will get a small"come to Jesus metting from me or any of the azzholes that I ride with! We dont take that stuff litely.
Keep it safe please! BTW...there have already been some slides in the Baker area a few weeks ago.
Like others have said....mountain conditions can and will change without notice. The snow you were on in the morning may be totally different by the time you head down. Right now conditions on slopes greater than 30deg will be very unstable...many of the steeper hills will "fix" themselves...it is the ones that anybody can go up that need some help(like 700lbs of sled and rider to break them loose.
I see you are from Chelan...I am a former Search/Rescue team leader for Chelan Sherrifs dept. I have been on three body recoverys(no beacons on any of them) One in the Navaho..one in the Blewett area(not the typical Blewett places that people ride. Then there was a bad one near Conconelly(sp?) That one had only 3-4ft of snow. There were a Father and his son at the bottom of a hill and someone not in their group went and did a big sidehill above them...the hill came down all the way to the frozen dirt! Now do the math take 600ft across and 800 ft downhill times 4 ft. and you will see how deep the white concrete was at the bottom. The son did not make it and the father was partially buried...I could only imagine the thoughts that the Father had as he was able to have his head above the snow but couldnt do anything.
If you have to side hill do it only when you are ready to leave an area. Aftewr reading this you will understand why if I am at the base of a hill and you or anyone cuts the hill above me...I can garrantee that you will get a small"come to Jesus metting from me or any of the azzholes that I ride with! We dont take that stuff litely.
Keep it safe please! BTW...there have already been some slides in the Baker area a few weeks ago.
P
powder Head
Active member
Thanks DD, I'm having a hard time confincing folks close to me that it probably not safe to ride up there. If the weather tomorrow is warm like today it's going to be even worse and Baker like our avy guru says is a prime places to slide almost anywhere because almost all of it is South facing.
Please folks be safe tomorrw.....................................
Please folks be safe tomorrw.....................................
I'd be dayamm careful around, on, or especially under cornices
On 5/11 I seen some slow lava like movement off rocks and such, I'd be more worried about cornices letting loose now though..
On 5/11 I seen some slow lava like movement off rocks and such, I'd be more worried about cornices letting loose now though..
