Axys Silber clutch heat

[Spaarky]

Its no BS at all... not at all. Your naïve if you think is its BS....

 

[JJ_0909]

Its no BS at all... not at all. Your naïve if you think is its BS....

Its pretty simple math dude.

At 8000-10000 feet your stocker is down about 30% on power from stock.

a turbo sled at 7psi is putting out roughly 20% *more* than stocker (at sea level) at the the 8-10K elevation range. That is a massive delta delta in power (down 30 vs up 20). If you aren't getting belt slip, you are getting shift out, etc - well, I'm sorry but I don't see your "perfectly clutched NA sled" making up for that big of a horsepower delta....

EDIT: Even at 5psi its a massive delta.

 

[sledhead9825]

Its pretty simple math dude.

At 8000-10000 feet your stocker is down about 30% on power from stock.

a turbo sled at 7psi is putting out roughly 20% *more* than stocker (at sea level) at the the 8-10K elevation range. That is a massive delta delta in power (down 30 vs up 20). If you aren't getting belt slip, you are getting shift out, etc - well, I'm sorry but I don't see your "perfectly clutched NA sled" making up for that big of a horsepower delta....

EDIT: Even at 5psi its a massive delta.

One big problem with a poorly clutched Axys Turbo is how many belts you will blow up from overheating them. A proper clutch setup can pay for its self pretty quick

TRS clutching already paid for. Your only as strong as the weakest link

 

[JJ_0909]

One big problem with a poorly clutched Axys Turbo is how many belts you will blow up from overheating them. A proper clutch setup can pay for its self pretty quick

TRS clutching already paid for. Your only as strong as the weakest link

If you scroll up you'll note that's exactly what this thread was about. I found a setup that worked well and kept my belt life in check. I shared it...and because its not widely different or "the best ever" am told its "wrong".

Take it for what its worth.

Not saying you can't gain more with the TRS setup or ID setup, just saying there are alternatives you may be happy with for a lot less money if belt life is what you are after.

 

[JJ_0909]

You SHOULD NOT run delrins in your primary. It affects your spring rate and can bind. You should just clean up the spring faces and clutch faces. At most use a thunder products glide washer.

One more thing. You are right in that a delrin or glide washer can effect your spring rate (the "bind" effect increases your spring rate, the lack of the "bind" effect reduces your spring rate). Its not a massive difference, but its there. In my opinion, getting rid of spring bind (letting the spring rotate freely) is a good thing and drastically increases the life of the spring.

However delrin being a different thickness to a glide washer does NOT effect the rate, but the preload on the spring (something I prefer - I can tune engagement based on how many washers or delrins I have in...). So long as you are aware of these differences, what difference does it make?



Nitpicky...but had to point this out.

 

[Spaarky]

Its pretty simple math dude.

At 8000-10000 feet your stocker is down about 30% on power from stock.

a turbo sled at 7psi is putting out roughly 20% *more* than stocker (at sea level) at the the 8-10K elevation range. That is a massive delta delta in power (down 30 vs up 20). If you aren't getting belt slip, you are getting shift out, etc - well, I'm sorry but I don't see your "perfectly clutched NA sled" making up for that big of a horsepower delta....

EDIT: Even at 5psi its a massive delta.

You can run the math all day long. I don't need the math. I have the experience.

I am talking typical riding... Most of us are in and out of trees anymore. The set up you listed. Someday someone will pull up with a PROPERLY set up stocker and make you think WTF just happened.

And I could careless if you believe me or not.

 

[JJ_0909]

You can run the math all day long. I don't need the math. I have the experience.

I am talking typical riding... Most of us are in and out of trees anymore. The set up you listed. Someday someone will pull up with a PROPERLY set up stocker and make you think WTF just happened.

And I could careless if you believe me or not.

Like I said, I respect you and your willingness to always eek the most out of the machine.

I however believe if a dude on a stocker out rides me, on a turbo, he's a *drastically* better rider than me, not on a better machine than me... EG: my philosophy is rider-centric, yours is more machine centric. That's okay. We just disagree!

 

[tdbaugha]

Oh yeah well my dad can beat up both of your dads!

To the original poster, get TRS or IS clutching, or keep blowing belts. Those are your options. Case closed.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

I am at low elevation for the most part so I would say we make more HP than many others and this changes my clutching. We tried many things to get our clutching right, and I mean many setups! Setups that have been mentioned here and many others. Yes We were able to get our RPM down but throwing a steep helix and adding a much a weight but it was not consistent nor efficient. Belts were still hot and we were up to 86 grams to run 5 pounds. Yes it worked but we did not know what we were missing until Dan sent me some parts to test out. After trying a couple variations we were flat out impresses with what we found. I mean the power to the ground was straight impressive, pulled like a freight train! I can now hold it pinned anywhere for as long as I like with no issues. The belt temp is impressive, after holding it pinned on a long pull I can hold my hand on the clutch for as long as I want... Warm yes, hot nope... We went all season with one belt, that was two sleds with the same outcome. We are now done to 77 grams with the same setup!

Can you make other clutching work yes, but I can tell you the Indy Specialty kit flat out killed every other set up we tried, and that was a lot of them! I have a lot of springs, weights and helix's laying around.

 

[snowracer21]

Upped the weight in the primary, now at 78g. Sled pulls about 8,100-8,200 @6k'... I was hoping this would lower the heat from the primary..

I'm running the Gates Carbon belt (Axys specific)... after some long hard pulls, the the clutches & belt are hot as hell...like, burn my hand hot.

Ugh. I'm at a loss.

 

[JJ_0909]

Upped the weight in the primary, now at 78g. Sled pulls about 8,100-8,200 @6k'... I was hoping this would lower the heat from the primary..

I'm running the Gates Carbon belt (Axys specific)... after some long hard pulls, the the clutches & belt are hot as hell...like, burn my hand hot.

Ugh. I'm at a loss.

You've got a lot to try in this thread. IDs clutching, TRS clutching or my option.

I am guessing you are getting belt slip in the secondary, that's what is creating all that heat.

 

[Sage Crusher]

Pic's of the primary sheaves would help..if ya got them

 

[tmberro]

Upped the weight in the primary, now at 78g. Sled pulls about 8,100-8,200 @6k'... I was hoping this would lower the heat from the primary..

I'm running the Gates Carbon belt (Axys specific)... after some long hard pulls, the the clutches & belt are hot as hell...like, burn my hand hot.

Ugh. I'm at a loss.

Recommend reading the section on helix angles and belt grip.

 

[snowracer21]

I appreciate all the help guys. I read a bit of the TRS clutching thread... who is TRS? Can I order their kit? Or am I just piecing together the kit.

I raced snocross for nearly 10 years... my dad is a mastermind when it comes to clutching...to think I'd pay attention when him and the other mechanics were tuning the sled.

 

[snowracer21]

Sled has 100 miles on it. Cleaned the clutches before the first ride, washed the belt in warm soapy water... blew it in 40 miles.

~60 miles on the Gates 45c4553, these are what the clutches look like.

And one of the secondary:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Redrock]

I had same problem with my Silber kit put a brand new sled and blew a belt at 70 miles. Crazy clutch heat and lazy off idle performance.
Purchasers ID kit but haven’t had a chance to try it.
My Boondocker kits had heat but not like this Silber kit
I really hope it makes a big difference I aligned Clutch’s and installed SLP arm

 

[TRS]

You are getting belt slip in the primary and secondary. Poor clutching or..... Where did the water come from? If your belt is getting wet it won’t last long.

 

[snowracer21]

You are getting belt slip in the primary and secondary. Poor clutching or..... Where did the water come from? If your belt is getting wet it won’t last long.

Ignore the water, I was installing my wrap, and some water dripped down on the clutches prior to taking the photo.

Is there anything I can adjust to remedy the belt slipping? Adjust the belt deflection?

 

[snowracer21]

78g was too heavy, I think these 800s really like to be spun up. I was running 8150-8200.

Blew another belt (gates) at 135 miles (90 on the belt). On the trail ride up to the mountain, the belt was extremely hot.

Took the sled to the dealer, checked the alignment, and the secondary was too far out, so we adjusted that. Also, picked up an SLP torque stop. Gonna try it out this week, running 76g.

I'm running the Silber supplied clutching, 10 series weights, 160/327 almond primary spring, and black secondary spring, which I believe is 155/222 which is the same as stock? Also, stock 40s helix.

What is TRS's recomended setup? I'd rather not re-gear the sled, as that would mean buying a new QD pully and belt.

 

[Spaarky]

This isn't the days of old. Polaris has those motors cocked in the chasis. If you put a torque arm on it you could keep it from coming into alignment. If you use it the way it was intended.

Take the Silber clutching.... Throw it in the weeds and call Indy Specialty. Quit banging your head and many life easy. He has guys all over the continent. All elevations. All types of riding that have done the testing. Save yourself the head ache.