Axys rpm fade ?

[Ratchit]

There is documented proof that a belt does not fix all of the low rpm problems. People have swapped belts, clutches, ecu's , checked alignment and deflection and it had no effect. Either one of those has solved the issue for many people that had a low rpm issue but for the people where their rpm drop off like a lightswitch and the tone of the engine changes, it has not helped. What makes it harder to troubleshoot is the fact that it is an intermittent issue where the engine runs like a raped ape one minute, a turd the next minute and during a day of riding, it can go back and forth. That is what people are talking about when they say "rpm fade". Almost like the ecu goes into some sort of protection mode from time to time and there are no check engine lights or dtc's associated with it.

Internet chatter doesn't make it documented proof,hahahaha

I'm glad you believe everything you read on the internet

 

[greasemonkey3406]

So I guess people trade in their sleds and take a $4300 hit because they don't want to change their belt? And what about the thread on HCS started by Patrioticinnovations? He is documenting everything that he is doing to try and fix this issue but since its on the internet it must all be bull**** as well. There are a lot of people crying wolf on this issue but don't automatically assume that everyones problem has the same solution.

 

[Timbre]

I put in the SLP Stage 2 kit and got 1000 miles without problems but then the RPM issues came back with a vengeance. That's when I let my dealer have a shot at it.

Just a few questions . . .
Was the work your dealer did for you under warranty?
If so, how did they accomplish this if you had a Stage 2 kit installed?
The way i understand it, the stage 2 kit voids the warranty.
Do you think there is any chance the stage 2 kit contributed to the problem?

 

[Ratchit]

So I guess people trade in their sleds and take a $4300 hit because they don't want to change their belt? And what about the thread on HCS started by Patrioticinnovations? He is documenting everything that he is doing to try and fix this issue but since its on the internet it must all be bull**** as well. There are a lot of people crying wolf on this issue but don't automatically assume that everyones problem has the same solution.

So , when you put over 2000 miles on a sled in a season it must not be that bad. If it was no one would drive it let alone put over 2000 miles on in a season. Um ..... Ya
And buy another 2016, um.....Ya right.


What has this patriotic dude proved???

All I see is speculation and going on his assumptions.

 

[greasemonkey3406]

How is it speculation and guessing? He is going through all components and comparing his readings to spec. He hasn't proved anything yet. That's the thing, no one has a fix for it yet. What are you doing about it to be able to come on here and give everyone ****? Where is all of your proof? Sounds like a lot of speculation and guessing on your end too.

 

[Ratchit]

How is it speculation and guessing? He is going through all components and comparing his readings to spec. He hasn't proved anything yet. That's the thing, no one has a fix for it yet. What are you doing about it to be able to come on here and give everyone ****? Where is all of your proof? Sounds like a lot of speculation and guessing on your end too.

Don't get all defensive.

Hmmmm, I dunno, working on a dyno with 3. Using digital wrench program while on dyno to see every component while on dyno. Working with polaris and show all records.
I guess us guys over at dynotech just speculate , thanks for giving me the heads up on that

 

[minus40]

Don't get all defensive.

Hmmmm, I dunno, working on a dyno with 3. Using digital wrench program while on dyno to see every component while on dyno. Working with polaris and show all records.
I guess us guys over at dynotech just speculate , thanks for giving me the heads up on that

Hard not to be defensive when your calling everyone a dumbass

 

[Ratchit]

Hard not to be defensive when your calling everyone a dumbass

Show me which post I said that??

I think your assuming and speculating

 

[sledheader]

Ok, so u say 90% for belt, and the other 10% is not a belt issue. So is that just your opinion or is that proof? I just wanted to know so we can separate the speculation from the proof.
That way it can be resolved.

Absolutely factual. Took a household poll. No it's not friggin proof. I threw out numbers on my opinion. Are you kidding?

 

[jmaxdox]

Just a few questions . . .
Was the work your dealer did for you under warranty?
If so, how did they accomplish this if you had a Stage 2 kit installed?
The way i understand it, the stage 2 kit voids the warranty.
Do you think there is any chance the stage 2 kit contributed to the problem?

Not a chance. Problems started immediately after break in period and the
Kit was Installed a few hundred miles later. In fact when the kit was installed I regained full power and had no RPM issues for hundreds of miles but the RPM problems eventually returned. Best to take out any engine modifications before going to the dealer for warrantied work on any engine issues. Yes. Work was warrantied.

 

[snowmobiler]

i found somebody that has a fix for the fade.LOL

 

[jmaxdox]

So , when you put over 2000 miles on a sled in a season it must not be that bad. If it was no one would drive it let alone put over 2000 miles on in a season. Um ..... Ya
And buy another 2016, um.....Ya right.


What has this patriotic dude proved???

All I see is speculation and going on his assumptions.

You pay $13,000 for a sled, You drive the balls of it!! PERIOD. There were more recorded miles without RPM problems than there were with problems. My issues would come and go. Sometimes completely problem free rides. Other rides I'd have issues. Some days it would light switch from good to bad several times a day. Bottom line, I bought it to ride it. Sometimes she was a Bullet, Sometimes a Slug. DRIVE IT HARD!! IF IT BREAKS?? SO BE IT!!
I suppose you "Rat****" would have parked it in the garage and quit riding? Her most shameful miles were the last 500 I put on it. If it ran a little better I'd of put 3,000 on it easily. Rat****, you are an open Azz. This will be my last reply to your idiotic comments. Time to starve the Troll. Go back under the bridge!!

 

[Ratchit]

You pay $13,000 for a sled, You drive the balls of it!! PERIOD. There were more recorded miles without RPM problems than there were with problems. My issues would come and go. Sometimes completely problem free rides. Other rides I'd have issues. Some days it would light switch from good to bad several times a day. Bottom line, I bought it to ride it. Sometimes she was a Bullet, Sometimes a Slug. DRIVE IT HARD!! IF IT BREAKS?? SO BE IT!!
I suppose you "Rat****" would have parked it in the garage and quit riding? Her most shameful miles were the last 500 I put on it. If it ran a little better I'd of put 3,000 on it easily. Rat****, you are an open Azz. This will be my last reply to your idiotic comments. Time to starve the Troll. Go back under the bridge!!

Just so you know, I don't read your posts. You flooded hcs with 100's.

I think you need to join John Dee,sledfreak and maybe Dootalk to tell your stories all over again.
You missed a few internet forums,just sayin.

Sorry man, it's just a fact, no one drives a turd 2500 miles in one short season that's as problematic as you have posted oh so many times. And to top it off, purchase another axys. It's the internet,so it must be true.

Anyways, lots of helpful information out there.

 

[Timbre]

Not a chance. Problems started immediately after break in period and the
Kit was Installed a few hundred miles later. In fact when the kit was installed I regained full power and had no RPM issues for hundreds of miles but the RPM problems eventually returned. Best to take out any engine modifications before going to the dealer for warrantied work on any engine issues. Yes. Work was warrantied.

Very interesting, and frustrating for you for sure!! A few more questions . . .

On the days it worked well (or not so well), was there any consistency in outside temps., humidity, deep dry powder or heavy wet snow, sunny, snowing, rainy, foggy, elevation, miles traveled that day, fuel usage, oil usage etc?

Reason i ask is that i had a sled many years ago that had an "issue" on deep, cold, dry powder days. Found out the intake vents had been "modified" to allow more airflow (prev. owner) and were allowing the dry fine powder to enter the airbox. Another sled had minor "bogging" issues when intake vents got covered up with powder and / or turning hard right in deep heavy powder that restricted the exhaust exit.

Also, on another note . . .were you relatively happy with the Stage 2 kit? Do you feel it provided enough performance gains to justify the expense? Some say nearly 10 HP gain. What is your take on that after riding with that mod. on your sled?

Cheers!

 

[jmaxdox]

Very interesting, and frustrating for you for sure!! A few more questions . . .

On the days it worked well (or not so well), was there any consistency in outside temps., humidity, deep dry powder or heavy wet snow, sunny, snowing, rainy, foggy, elevation, miles traveled that day, fuel usage, oil usage etc?

Reason i ask is that i had a sled many years ago that had an "issue" on deep, cold, dry powder days. Found out the intake vents had been "modified" to allow more airflow (prev. owner) and were allowing the dry fine powder to enter the airbox. Another sled had minor "bogging" issues when intake vents got covered up with powder and / or turning hard right in deep heavy powder that restricted the exhaust exit.

Also, on another note . . .were you relatively happy with the Stage 2 kit? Do you feel it provided enough performance gains to justify the expense? Some say nearly 10 HP gain. What is your take on that after riding with that mod. on your sled?

Cheers!

RPM issues had no rhyme or reason. Very cold it would happen as well as warmer days. On warmer Spring like days the RPM's would dip lower than it would on very cold days though. I expect for performance to be slightly down in warmer weather but not like this. Normal RPM would be 8300-8400.
RPM issues on Cold Days would be 7800-8000. On warmer days 7400-8000

I was very happy with the SLP stage 2 kit. Not so sure I gained any 10HP numbers but I'm sure I got at least 1/2 of that or more? Never hit the Dyno to get real feedback. The Pipe was Super Light compared to the Heavy Stock pipe. The clutch kit part of the kit definately put some extra snap in there. Took off a little faster and gained about 100rpm on top. Truthfully from what I've read it seams like most of these Axys engines that have been on the dyno showed peak HP at around 8200. Maybe I should have added a gram or two more weight to bring my RPM down slightly?? The new engine spools up really fast compared to the previous Pro-r engine and with the SLP kit it spooled even faster. In my opinion it's a pretty nice set up. Good weight loss, added HP and snappier quicker revving clutching. Very tight and snappy. Loved the Tone of the pipe as well. Not a screacher but it sings a real nice tone. More throaty when idling and has a little sting when ringing her out. Quieter than any other aftermarket pipe & can I've heard so far.

On the contrary to what "RAT****" has to say. I didn't come to the Snowest site to complain about RPM issues. I actually snowchecked an SKS and was on this site looking for Deep Powder riders advice. I've spent a lot of time on the H.C.S site because I've always been a Trail Rider and there are lots of Flat Land trail riders on H.C.S to get good info from. I run my own business that has me working my Balls off Spring, Summer & Fall and I get my Winters off which translates to lots of riding time.. YAHOO!! 2300 miles isn't a record breaker for a trail riding fool like me. My buddies put that kind of mileage on every year. This year I'll have to split my time up a little. Snowchecked two sleds. Another Pro-S 800 and the SKS. The longtrack sled will be a new adventure for me. I can't wait for snow!!

 

[northstarrick]

i'am a new member here. I have my own very successful snowmobile repair business in N.H. I have customers that drive to Wyoming and ride there own sleds. it over 3000 miles. hardcore to say the least. I work on over 150 sleds a year. I worked for two different Polaris dealers, and 14 years at a ski-doo dealer. oval tracked raced in the day. had my own drag racing and sno-x race team. wrenched for pro race teams also. and rebuild shocks for some pro arctic cat teams. i'am the guy back in early 2011 that came out with a oil tank vent kit first on hcs. this was a result of working on sleds every day of the year. but my idea was copied by others. anyway.

I know what is causing the true motor sound changing fade. but people don't listen. just like the oil tank venting. people have called me all kinds of names, a liar, ripping people off etc.

anyone ever work on a fst? or better yet a msx 150 turbo watercraft? this is no different of a issue. trust me. yes a lot of guys jumped on the fade band wagon. you have to remember one thing. most of these guys are not mechanic's. so of coarse they don't really know what's going on? is that any reason to belittle people? I don't think so.

so probably 80-90% are belt/ clutch related? but the other 10-20% are not. just like the two mentioned above rides.

don't believe everything you see on the d-wrench. remember this is Polaris there electronics leave a lot to be desired at best. the d-wrench is no different.

and a # of things can and will cause the true fade. not a one smoking gun item. causing it, but it all leads to the same thing happing.( over aggressive motor protection) that's all I will say for now. is it heat or lack of? yes. is it the tps? yes. is it a bad pipe seal? yes. is it the ex. valves? yes. is it ecu calibration? yes. is it gearing and clutching? yes.

but I can fix it. don't worry about buying a 2016 sled. i'am not going anywhere. just p.m. me or have your dealer p.m. if needed. a few simple check's and test is all that's needed.

 

[jmaxdox]

i'am a new member here. I have my own very successful snowmobile repair business in N.H. I have customers that drive to Wyoming and ride there own sleds. it over 3000 miles. hardcore to say the least. I work on over 150 sleds a year. I worked for two different Polaris dealers, and 14 years at a ski-doo dealer. oval tracked raced in the day. had my own drag racing and sno-x race team. wrenched for pro race teams also. and rebuild shocks for some pro arctic cat teams. i'am the guy back in early 2011 that came out with a oil tank vent kit first on hcs. this was a result of working on sleds every day of the year. but my idea was copied by others. anyway.

I know what is causing the true motor sound changing fade. but people don't listen. just like the oil tank venting. people have called me all kinds of names, a liar, ripping people off etc.

anyone ever work on a fst? or better yet a msx 150 turbo watercraft? this is no different of a issue. trust me. yes a lot of guys jumped on the fade band wagon. you have to remember one thing. most of these guys are not mechanic's. so of coarse they don't really know what's going on? is that any reason to belittle people? I don't think so.

so probably 80-90% are belt/ clutch related? but the other 10-20% are not. just like the two mentioned above rides.

don't believe everything you see on the d-wrench. remember this is Polaris there electronics leave a lot to be desired at best. the d-wrench is no different.

and a # of things can and will cause the true fade. not a one smoking gun item. causing it, but it all leads to the same thing happing.( over aggressive motor protection) that's all I will say for now. is it heat or lack of? yes. is it the tps? yes. is it a bad pipe seal? yes. is it the ex. valves? yes. is it ecu calibration? yes. is it gearing and clutching? yes.

but I can fix it. don't worry about buying a 2016 sled. i'am not going anywhere. just p.m. me or have your dealer p.m. if needed. a few simple check's and test is all that's needed.

Thanks for all your hard work Rick. I've read countless posts by you on HCS. Polaris checked TPS and exhaust valves along with a few other simple things. I honestly didn't feel they were digging very deep and their check list of items to look into wasn't that impressive. I've read tons of posts from real mechanics like yourself that were digging in much deeper looking harder. I'm definately not a sled mechanic so looking into some of the mentioned items was above my understanding and my dealer didn't seem to have much interest in digging in any further than what Polaris gave them for a Hit List. Any time I'd bring up what was being mentioned on the forums by other mechanics for possible issues they had closed ears. Clearly they had a negative look at what forums provide for info. My guess is that dealers get paid for looking into Polaris's check list but when they dig deeper for a customer that labor goes unpaid for? "THAT'S JUST MY GUESS"

I always knew that eventually the bugs could and would be worked out. I just didn't have the patience with Polaris to wait for them to pull the rabbit from the hat and be able to help me out. Paying a mechanic to wrench on my brand new warrantied sled kind of got under my skin too. It seemed like I might get lucky and spend a few hundred bucks and find the fix but I also felt like I could easily blow a grand and still be scratching my head and then be totally grossed out and even more pissed. 1st year sleds notoriously often come with new issues and then they improve on them each year to take out the problems. I had the 2010 Rush which was refined and improved quite a bit in 2011.

I'm pretty comfortable with losing $2000-$2500 out of a sleds value in each year of use I get out of it. $4300 was more than I wanted to take for a beating on my Pro-S but like I said I already soaked up the realization that I just lost $2500 in value for 2300 miles of riding. I could have gambled and started paying a mechanic out of pocket to find the answers to my problems myself BUT I then would have to add all of my wrenching Bills on top of my $2500. So theoretically speaking lets say I spent a $1000 wrenching on top of my $2500 depreciation and now have $3500 loss of value. "HOPEFULLY FIXED??" For another $800 I could be riding a brand new 2016 with zero miles and another whole year of warranty. And hopefully the 2016 sled comes with a few improvements over the 2015 from Polaris??? Either way I'm sure many people would never agree with how I equated my reasoning for buying new again -vs- continuing for another year to try to find the fix. The aggravation factor of continuing to work out the bugs for another year also had some good weighing in on the scale of what I should do.

The aggravation hopefully is over for me. My dealer now can wrench on my old sled and maybe he will have better luck fixing it for himself than he did fixing it for me. Now I'm just waiting for the call that my new beast is ready to be picked up. Crossing my fingers that my new one doesn't share any of the same issues that my old one had

 

[snowmobiler]

cat fade

 

[Ratchit]

i'am a new member here. I have my own very successful snowmobile repair business in N.H. I have customers that drive to Wyoming and ride there own sleds. it over 3000 miles. hardcore to say the least. I work on over 150 sleds a year. I worked for two different Polaris dealers, and 14 years at a ski-doo dealer. oval tracked raced in the day. had my own drag racing and sno-x race team. wrenched for pro race teams also. and rebuild shocks for some pro arctic cat teams. i'am the guy back in early 2011 that came out with a oil tank vent kit first on hcs. this was a result of working on sleds every day of the year. but my idea was copied by others. anyway.

I know what is causing the true motor sound changing fade. but people don't listen. just like the oil tank venting. people have called me all kinds of names, a liar, ripping people off etc.

anyone ever work on a fst? or better yet a msx 150 turbo watercraft? this is no different of a issue. trust me. yes a lot of guys jumped on the fade band wagon. you have to remember one thing. most of these guys are not mechanic's. so of coarse they don't really know what's going on? is that any reason to belittle people? I don't think so.

so probably 80-90% are belt/ clutch related? but the other 10-20% are not. just like the two mentioned above rides.

don't believe everything you see on the d-wrench. remember this is Polaris there electronics leave a lot to be desired at best. the d-wrench is no different.

and a # of things can and will cause the true fade. not a one smoking gun item. causing it, but it all leads to the same thing happing.( over aggressive motor protection) that's all I will say for now. is it heat or lack of? yes. is it the tps? yes. is it a bad pipe seal? yes. is it the ex. valves? yes. is it ecu calibration? yes. is it gearing and clutching? yes.

but I can fix it. don't worry about buying a 2016 sled. i'am not going anywhere. just p.m. me or have your dealer p.m. if needed. a few simple check's and test is all that's needed.

Had 3 on the dyno as you've seen good info on psp with guys sharing about axys. I will say this 90% is in cvt system with small percentage of complaints on axys sleds with any kind of rpm issue.
tps,valves,exhaust,exhaust temp sensor,t map sensor, crank pick ups , all play a huge part in what's going on.

 

[dboivin]

cat fade

k that made me chuckle a little bit. thanks.