Avy Training Course Input Needed

[modsledr]

Michael Jackson, the founder of the Alpine Safty Awareness Program (ASAP www.alpinesafety.org ) has asked me to speak at the upcoming American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education (AIARE www.avtraining.org ) forum in Bellingham WA about what type of curriculum would best reach snowmobilers.

Mr. Jackson is working very hard at reaching out to the snowmobile community to help reduce our avalanche incidents, and is puting together a dedicated curriculum aimed specifically at the snowmobile community...in turn, he's hoping to gain AIARE recognition for these snowmobile specific courses.

He currently teaches one day courses, which include topics such as the human elements to avalanche avoidance, avalanche terrain and avoidance, and basic beacon training.

Additionally, he is currently working on a 2 day "on the snow" course (we took the inaugural "guinea pig" course 2 weeks ago) that includes terrain recognition, snow pack testing (pit compression test) and more in depth beacon training and rescue scenarios (this course must be preceded by the one day course).


What I am looking for is additional input on what type of course(s) could be offered that you as a snowmobiler WOULD attend, OR, if the above classes were offered in your area, would you take them?

Thanks in advance for the input!!

Brent

 

[Soccerd6]

I was under the false impression that the afternoon beacon work at the one-day class (taken twice) would make me proficient enough to help in a rescue - I'm sad to report, not so.... While it taught me the basics of my beacon and how it "behaves", I think it's important to stress that it doesn't even come close to simulating an on-the-snow rescue (or even a simulation of one!) Other than that, I wouldn't change anything in the one-day course.

Also, based on what I understand about your "guinea pig" course 2 weeks ago, I think a training somewhere between the 1-day course and what you guys took may be more appropriate for my level.

 

[Van Epps]

Would be interested in Group searching tactics vs solo searching.

I would be very interested in comprehensive stability testing, along with info to help interpret results. Column testing, from what I understand, includes 3 progressive levels. Each level consists of 10 taps on shovel. 1st set 10 taps hinging at wrist. 2nd set 10 taps hinging from elbow. 3rd set 10 hits, hinging from shoulder. How are the results classified? What level of instability is considered "safe" or acceptable for motorized use? What level is considered safe or acceptable for skiing/boarding? Provide historical data regarding instability level at the time of recorded slide incidents and explain consequences.

I'm also interested in learning how different factors affect stability.. ex wind loads, temp changes while on hill. Which factor create greater risk? We are taking calculated risks with our lives each day doing what we love. Teach us how to intelligently weigh the risk.

Online video courses would be great.

 

[ruffryder]

What I am looking for is additional input on what type of course(s) could be offered that you as a snowmobiler WOULD attend, OR, if the above classes were offered in your area, would you take them?

that includes terrain recognition, snow pack testing (pit compression test) and more in depth beacon training and rescue scenarios (this course must be preceded by the one day course).

See the bold... the pit tests are not too big of concern to me. Maybe from a perspective of learning about snow layers / constructions / types of layers / composition and the like.

One thing that I would like to see more of is real photage of avalanches. I have seen enough of the big faces, but the little ones in the trees and such is where I am overly confident.. and more susceptable in my everyday riding.

I would also like to know more about the associated risks due to the season ie beginning vs spring riding, and is anything to note that is different between them.

 

[modsledr]

Thanks Karen!!

Are you saying you would want a class of beacon training exclusively?

The beacon training in these classes (both the one day and the two day) is INTENDED to allow you to take that info and practice on your own.


Everyone please keep in mind that the emphasis of the classes is RECOGNITION AND AVOIDANCE of avalanche terrain.

 

[Van Epps]

Agree 100%, Terrain recognition and in depth beacon search training along with scenarios.

 

[Soccerd6]

Thanks Karen!!

Are you saying you would want a class of beacon training exclusively?

The beacon training in these classes (both the one day and the two day) is INTENDED to allow you to take that info and practice on your own.

I would attend an on-the-snow rescue simulation beacon training. Using what I've learned in the one-day class I've practiced in the parking lot, and on the hill when it was foggy, but nothing prepared me for the beacon searches we did at the LR, where there were multiple "buriels", including one without a beacon - hard to practice a probing line on the baseball field....

Thx Brent (and Brandy) for all you're doing for us sledders in this regard...

 

[HM8]

I would like to see more on the snow courses available. From talking to people who have attended them, it sounds like the hands on experience in both beacon use and terrain recognition made a much better impression on the snow rather than exclusively in the classroom.

 

[graveler]

Agree 100%, Terrain recognition and in depth beacon search training along with scenarios.

terrain recognition is key to staying safe!!!! so many times I have heard people say this area was logged!!!! the area I am referring to is the secondary entrance into Gallagher!!!! but then what do I know!!!! seems I can read the signs but I didnt listen to them!!!! almost cost me....

 

[havinfun]

On snow beacon use class.


2 classes with Mike only makes me realize how much I don't know about beacon use. Practicing with friends at home and at the class has to be vastly different than being on the side of a hill and actually probing and maintaining straight lines of sweep over a large area.

 

[mc2stroke]

Training...

I'd be into some kinda of on the avy training. I know I need it as I do not know the first thing about truly evaluating the terrian.

Ithink I know how to use my beacon decently but I'm positive I need assistance in that arena too....

 

[darkeyes]

We'd definitely take the avy course if it were offered in our area (southern WA). I know several other sledders down this way that would be interested, too.

I'm also certain we'd take it up that way if we can work in a road trip.

Thanks B & B.

 

[CoyoteGirl]

if we can work in a road trip.

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY lol

 

[Macattack]

All good points above.

I like what VE mentioned above. "Teach us how to intelligently weigh the risk."

We all know a deep pow day will not turn us away based on a weak previous facet layer. So if we can clearly understand the cause~effect~percentage~terrain~impact~etc, we could ride smart to ride another day.

I also like to see a simulation as S6 mentioned. Single AND multiple burials. The true test of knowledge is putting it to work. I have some avy knowledge both in training and theoretical but have not put it to use in a scenario.

Honestly, I don't believe a single day could cover the curriculum I would expect to see. 2 days may be difficult, but it may just save a life.

 

[modsledr]

This is all great feedback, and it's appreciated!!

Keep in mind that Michael Jacksons main goal is to teach us how to recognize both avalanche terrain and the human factors that lead to causing avalanches, so we are better prepared to avoid them...he stresses that if you can make educated decisions, then you can ride even if the avy danger is high by proper terrain and route choice

The one day class is specific to these 2 things, with a little basic beacon training thrown in.

The two day class he is developing will pick up where the one day leaves off, with on the snow terrain and snowpack analysis, followed by more rescue scenarios on the hill.

thanks again!!

 

[Snowbyrd]

Beacon classes?

Why are so many waiting for someone to train them further in the use of the beacon?

Michael Jackson teaches you how your beacon works and how to locate another buried one with it. You leave his class with the info needed to practice any time you want in real mountain riding areas. Is there that much need for someone to organize an official "beacon class"? How many would be willing to go and devote the time to plan a day or two to do such a class? This type of a class might be something you could look into putting on yourself Brent. There is still enough time this year or first of the season next year.

As a side note, the probe line for finding someone that wasn't wearing a beacon is mostly for a body recovery (if you consider the 15 min rule), I wouldn't spend to much time practicing for that scenario. It is the main reason to not ride with anybody that doesn't wear a beacon!

Just my .02

 

[freak58trio]

Beacon classes?

Why are so many waiting for someone to train them further in the use of the beacon?

Michael Jackson teaches you how your beacon works and how to locate another buried one with it. You leave his class with the info needed to practice any time you want in real mountain riding areas. Is there that much need for someone to organize an official "beacon class"? How many would be willing to go and devote the time to plan a day or two to do such a class? This type of a class might be something you could look into putting on yourself Brent. There is still enough time this year or first of the season next year.

As a side note, the probe line for finding someone that wasn't wearing a beacon is mostly for a body recovery (if you consider the 15 min rule), I wouldn't spend to much time practicing for that scenario. It is the main reason to not ride with anybody that doesn't wear a beacon!

Just my .02

Brian;
I agree when you leave the class you are leaving with the knowledge of how to use your beacon but more classes isn't going to help you out , practice in the field is what's going to help you imo . As a side note in many of the pics I see on here a lot of you are wearing your beacon outside of your tekvest or jersey ! Isn't one of the thing's Mr. Jackson teaches is to wear them as close to your body as possibly (i.e. at your base layer) ??? sp as to not get torn off as easily if caught in an avy ?

 

[Van Epps]

if you can make educated decisions, then you can ride even if the avy danger is high by proper terrain and route choice

To me, this says it all. ^^^^^

I agree that becoming efficient searchers with our beacons is really up to us individually once we understand the basics.

 

[Tumblina]

I'd be up for an on the snow type class. Maybe a refresher with ALPTRUTH & all the human factors first.

I'm interested in working with my beacon more too. I think about practicing with it...but then I get out there forget all about it. Or maybe I'm just lazy.

I'd like to be a little more prepared if something DID happen. I'm sure practicing with it on the snow will enlighten me beyond words.

I know the one probe line I did at the Ladies Ride scared the hell outta me. I never want to look for someone like that. I never want to look for someone period.

 

[modsledr]

Great Input...keep it coming!!