apache helicopters wackin taliban!!!!

[Scott]

there are bigger drains on us than the war on terror.at least its a good cause.welfare and lazy people rank much higher as a drain on our country than anything.im all for wiping out the taliban no matter how long it takes.if we back out and let them regroup and grow they will strike again.my .02

Go stick your head in the door of an upper level college class in the medical field. See how many of them are Americans.
Not too many. Most dont' speak English as a first language. They are usually Korean, Japanese, Sri Lankan or Asian Indian, etc.

Americans just don't want to work that hard.

 

[treemagnet03]

Scott-

we put caps on the number of non-citizens that can be trained as MDs, and they do not get low rate government loans either (like citizen students do). Considering that a major amount of the funding that goes into getting a doctor being supported by government funding, that makes perfect sense to me. The majority of foreign medical professionals trained as doctors in their own country before coming to ours. Also, so long as you are north of the mason-dixie line, it is still a pretty white place to be...though you are correct in stating upper level science and business classes anywhere are a heavily Asian population (that includes India).

The big thing is that there is no motivation anymore to do better. You see this problem in many countries like Sweden where most everything is given to you. Why work when you don't need to? True need is powerful motivation...

 

[slyrydr]

And you don't see what is happening? You don't see the total drain that this has become on us?

...and you don't yet understand that freedom isn't free ? ......i've lived, eaten, fought with and against these people, i've trained them, gotten them out of more scrapes that was going to kill them...i've understood and not understood them at so many levels..professional, personal, daily...for years...i learned more about their politics, traditions, motivations than most...as a kid, i ran in the streets with them, i spoke their language, played ball (soccer), ran scared when the bullets were flying....later in life, i taught them how to fly jet fighters, drop bombs, shoot guns...hey, i can't begin to tell you all my experiences with the muslims of more than half the countries in the mid-east...and i can tell you that much of the violence is perpetrated by the haters...they hate the russians, westerners, americans, and not least each other....they will fight with whomever is closest...and they don't respect you or me, other than for the technology we can give them to suck oil out of the ground, so that they don't have to work.....so yeah, i do understand.....

 

[beard]

...and your don't yet understand that freedom isn't free ? ......i've lived, eaten, fought with and against these people, i've trained them, gotten them out of more scrapes that was going to kill them...i've understood and not understood them at so many levels..professional, personal, daily...for years...i learned more about their politics, traditions, motivations than most...as a kid, i ran in the streets with them, i spoke their language, played ball (soccer), ran scared when the bullets were flying....later in life, i taught them how to fly jet fighters, drop bombs, shoot guns...hey, i can't begin to tell you all my experiences with the muslims of more than half the countries in the mid-east...and i can tell you that much of the violence is perpetrated by the haters...they hate the russians, westerners, americans, and not least each other....they will fight with whomever is closest...and they don't respect you or me, other than for the technology we can give them to suck oil out of the ground, so that they don't have to work.....so yeah, i do understand.....

lol....yeah takes a real genius to suck oil out of the ground.....if this thread wasnt for ******i'd b laughing.....instead i'm crying.....it's like a bad dream.

 

[RMK7SledHead]

...and your don't yet understand that freedom isn't free ? ......i've lived, eaten, fought with and against these people, i've trained them, gotten them out of more scrapes that was going to kill them...i've understood and not understood them at so many levels..professional, personal, daily...for years...i learned more about their politics, traditions, motivations than most...as a kid, i ran in the streets with them, i spoke their language, played ball (soccer), ran scared when the bullets were flying....later in life, i taught them how to fly jet fighters, drop bombs, shoot guns...hey, i can't begin to tell you all my experiences with the muslims of more than half the countries in the mid-east...and i can tell you that much of the violence is perpetrated by the haters...they hate the russians, westerners, americans, and not least each other....they will fight with whomever is closest...and they don't respect you or me, other than for the technology we can give them to suck oil out of the ground, so that they don't have to work.....so yeah, i do understand.....

I don't have anything else to add. If you've done all that, and you still think that spending the money and lives is worthwhile, then a lowly guy like me isn't going to change your mind.

May I ask what service you were in and what you flew?

 

[m8magicandmystery]

the ones who provided safe haven for bin lauden, so he could train the people who bombed embassies, the trade center buildings, killing thousands of innocents....

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/911-...e-he-planned-to-expose-more-cia-crimes-video/

 

[polemite.productions]

...and your don't yet understand that freedom isn't free ? .....

fighting for freedom makes about as much sense as screwing for virginity.

and while we're talking about freedom, does this sound anything like the definition of freedom that we enjoy? it does to me...

Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.

 

[Go4Broke]

fighting for freedom makes about as much sense as screwing for virginity.

and while we're talking about freedom, does this sound anything like the definition of freedom that we enjoy? it does to me...

Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.

maybe you should read history book before making a comment like that we fought a little war call the Revolutionary War against a tyrant King it had a lot to do with a guy that's on a dollar bill that should be more than enough info to get you started on your history lesson

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[slyrydr]

I don't have anything else to add. If you've done all that, and you still think that spending the money and lives is worthwhile, then a lowly guy like me isn't going to change your mind.

May I ask what service you were in and what you flew?

...air force, f-105, f-16, other trainers also...as always i respect your decisions and right to speak them...not referring to you especially, but some of the responses i see in this thread and others, is distressing from my vantage point in that there is a lot of ignorance about this countrys' history and why we got to where we are....and some of the "professors" at the college level that are regenades from the vietnam era, are still spewing their ignorance and myopia 40 years later....'cause they've never had to fight for anything of any importance, but lived off the backs of good men and women both in and out of the military who do defend our liberties and understand why...if anyone doesn't think that this country is special, go live in a second or third world nation for a year or two....there're reasons why so many in the world would die (and do), trying for the opportunity to come to the U.S., if nothing more than to sweep our floors and enjoy our freedom of conscience...anyway, enough....those that haven't had the experience to understand will not be persuaded by verbage...

 

[polemite.productions]

maybe you should read history book before making a comment like that we fought a little war call the Revolutionary War against a tyrant King it had a lot to do with a guy that's on a dollar bill that should be more than enough info to get you started on your history lesson

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

and just how does that apply to the 21st century? your country and your freedoms are already established. you're not trying to carve out your independance anymore (something that canada did without firing a shot). you want me to look back over 200 years to justify what's going on today? why is there this assumption that all of these outside forces are plotting to come and take america's "freedom" all the time? and for what reason? please tell me exactly which freedom iraq was attacking, and why the us had to invade iraq in order to defend that freedom? we all know the wmd story was bs.
there are a lot of other western countries out there, but they aren't being attacked, and they aren't out there attacking anyone else. and on the flip side, there are a lot of countries out there that are in desparate need of stability and liberation, yet no western country gives them a second thought. ever wonder why that is? for answers, follow the money.

i don't buy the story that these terrorist groups and middle eastern countries want to attack the us for the sole purpose of stripping their freedoms. or that they could even possibly have any effect on american freedoms even if they wanted to. the biggest threats to these freedom's are right at home. it's the policy makers that preach fear in order to trade freedom for security, and economic descisions who's consequences fall on the shoulders of the people. and their reasoning for doing so? once again, follow the money.

so if someone is going to tell me that there's gonna be a war in some foreign country, fought to preserve "freedom", i'd sure like to hear them tell me exactly which freedoms are being threatened, how these wakos could ever possibly hope to have any effect on these freedoms, and why they feel the need to come over and attempt to take them. if all of that checks out, and is verified, then i'm all for it i guess. not the case in iraq though, and afganistan is questionable. as far as i can tell, we're all just screwing for virginity over there.

but while we're at it, i'd like to hear a definition of exactly what freedom is- cuz as far as i can see, just because our cage is bigger than most other peoples, it doesn't change the fact that we're still in a cage.

 

[aebsledder]

a video of an apache gunning down taliban is about as likely to convince taliban to quit fighting... as a video of a bunch of taliban flying planes into buildings is going to convince the west from staying out of the middle east.

quite the opposite in fact. stirring up a hornets nest is more like it.


now i'm not pro-taliban or anything, but i often wonder... how far would i have to be pushed before i would decide that traveling half way around the world, learning to fly a plane, lying in wait for the right timing, then hijacking a plane, and using it to kill myself and thousands of others, was the right thing to do??? or even go up the chain of command a little- what would it take before i would be willing to plan, finance, recruit people and convince them to kill themselves, send them to hit a target on the opposite side of the world, and kill thousands of civilians in the process, all while placing myself on the hit-list of the worlds most lethal military?

seems like a big decision to make. something tells me that the west isn't quite as innocent as we'd like to believe. a strong love for allah, and the lure of 72 virgins just seems a little too thin of a reason for me to believe.

So what is your theory? Somehow the evil west wronged the Taliban in such a profound way we provoked a strike on thousands of innocent people? People who were at their jobs trying to pay for their houses that are vacant all the time? I am far from a war monger or even what would be considered "right" or "conservative". I do however believe that society has to abide by certain rules in order to prosper and succeed. Doesn't really seem like many of these rules are followed in places like Afghanistan. For god's sake, they were stoning people to death in public less than 10 years ago. I am not saying the United States is superior to all other countries, or without flaws. But I do think that we set an example that the rest of the world follows, like it or not.

 

[polemite.productions]

yeah that's pretty much my theory. i'm not condoning their actions, but i'm betting that's how they justified it to themselves.

is there really any other reasoning that would make sense?

 

[allied1]

Nobody ever talks about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Production_in_Afghanistan

 

[oldsledsrule]

My brother-in-law was in the Navy for 30 years (Naval Intelligence) he retired about 8 years ago but still does contract work for them, a few years after 9-11 he told me that if there is ever to be safety and peace for this country we would have to kill every last one of them because you cannot make a treaty with them, you cannot reason with them, they do not know the meaning of honor. The only thing they understand is violence and death. He doubted it would ever happen even if they nuked us first but it was his only conclusion on how to end it.

 

[slyrydr]

^^^ true stuff....if you haven't lived with and had close contact with the majority of the peoples' of the mid-east...they not only don't think like us, they simply don't have the education (ignorance i spoke of), to begin to make rational decisions in a modern world....they are still in the medival mindset of solving problems....might is right, my way or no way...only Allah determines when i die, what i do has nothing to do with the consequences of death...i could go on, but suffice it to say, sir, you speak from a vantage point of ignorance as to the nature of the peoples of the mid-east, which is a good part of the problem in formulating treaties with them...as pres. obama found out...

 

[polaris dude]

^^^ true stuff....if you haven't lived with and had close contact with the majority of the peoples' of the mid-east...they not only don't think like us, they simply don't have the education (ignorance i spoke of), to begin to make rational decisions in a modern world....they are still in the medival mindset of solving problems....might is right, my way or no way...only Allah determines when i die, what i do has nothing to do with the consequences of death...i could go on, but suffice it to say, sir, you speak from a vantage point of ignorance as to the nature of the peoples of the mid-east, which is a good part of the problem in formulating treaties with them...as pres. obama found out...

I'm betting if we brought our troops home and focused on keeping our borders secure a majority of the terror plots would be foiled right then and there.

 

[Leaf27]

My brother-in-law was in the Navy for 30 years (Naval Intelligence) he retired about 8 years ago but still does contract work for them, a few years after 9-11 he told me that if there is ever to be safety and peace for this country we would have to kill every last one of them because you cannot make a treaty with them, you cannot reason with them, they do not know the meaning of honor. The only thing they understand is violence and death. He doubted it would ever happen even if they nuked us first but it was his only conclusion on how to end it.

Ok so your saying everyone from the Mid East ( except Isreal of course ) is a terrorist and the US should kill them all, right gotcha.:thumbdown:

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jeff C]

This is a very complicated issue folks........

On one hand:

I can sympathize with those who say "Lets get over there and wipe all those taliban a-holes off the earth"

There is some merit to this. One less Taliban to breathe the air you and I enjoy. I completely get that. They are ruthless, savages.

On the other hand:

Afghanistan has been a mostly lawless tribal region that does not follow the same type of civil and social rules that we live life under. There have been dozens of armies that have tried to tame this region over the centuries. All have failed. The beast keeps growing new tentacles. Whack one Taliban, another takes his place. If we go in there and occupy (Like we tried), they keep attacking our bases. Every lowlife fighter from the Muslim world keeps coming in there. The mountainous terrain has been used by these people for centuries to attack, conceal themselves, hide weapons and supplies, train fighters etc. When we go and patrol these areas, our young men get slaughtered over and over through constant ambush situations.

Taking control of this country takes hundreds of thousands if not millions of troops. We did not commit enough boots on the ground to do this properly..

If we were serious about this as a nation as a whole, we would have to commit triple/quadruple the resources and personnel to do this right.

And then once you had control over the country, then what? The native population just do not think with civility and governmental reason. Its not everybody working for the country to be successful, these tribes work for the tribe to be successful, they could care less about national efforts.

Their minds do not think like ours do, and do not value the things we do (Liberty, freedom, fairness, law and order, sense of fair play, equality, etc).

I just think that our young men and women that are serving over there deserve either 1. total commitment and resources to win this war or 2. Bring our sons and daughters home and keep them from dying for this half baked plan.

I am tired of seeing our brave kids die for something that our own government is bailing on.

I have read over a dozen books over the last few months on our war in Afghanistan. One common thing keeps leaping off the pages of these books. We are not equipping our troops to be able to win! (With both numbers of troops and enough equipment)

As a nation, we need to have a dialogue and get a plan together that the American people can support. Until then, I say get our kids home.......

 

[polemite.productions]

well the simple answer to that, is that this war was never meant to be won- just sustained... it's a license to take taxpayer dollars and stuff them into the private pockets of defense/oil/construction contractors, and ultimately banks.

the horrible truth is that some really dirty business people capitalized on the terrorist attacks- used them to justify the theft of all our money, all to fight a cause that there was never any hope of winning. global war or terror??? yeah sure... lets take care of a bee problem by prodding the hive with a stick for the next 11++ years.

 

[Jeff C]

well the simple answer to that, is that this war was never meant to be won- just sustained... it's a license to take taxpayer dollars and stuff them into the private pockets of defense/oil/construction contractors, and ultimately banks.

the horrible truth is that some really dirty business people capitalized on the terrorist attacks- used them to justify the theft of all our money, all to fight a cause that there was never any hope of winning. global war or terror??? yeah sure... lets take care of a bee problem by prodding the hive with a stick for the next 11++ years.

Hmm, I guess I am not inclined to dive into the conspiracy theory agenda of others. I think we decided to strike back at the most likely place that spawned the 911 attacks in the first place. I just think we went about it half baked, and the result is, alot of our kids are needlessly dying for that half baked plan.....

Now, dont get me wrong, I think history will show that this was a failed attempt by the US.