Any G4 Doo owners ride the Alpha 1

[Big10inch]

Little advice, open your eyes, and learn how to ride.

I haven't seen a Doo keep up in the trees on either my Axys or my 17 MC. I have seen them try week after week, winter after winter.


The chassis just isn't as stable. It isn't predictable enough on tight up hill off camber insanity that has become FUN to ride on sleds like the Axys and Mtn Cats.


Maybe with the mods listed by the Doo fans you can fix this stuff but I choose to just avoid that PIA with better choices.


That Cat is just as reliable as the Doo. Just as light as the Doo, just as narrow. The Cat has better boards, shock package, track and clutching right out of the box.


I fail to see the allure of either of the other two check options. IF the Poo motor is actually a decent piece I would consider going back that way. To me though, the Alpha would be the no brainer, especially with more great reviews above.

 

[Big10inch]

learn how to ride.LOL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91u-5QwbKRU

So you are saying the G4 is a good girls sled?

 

[Big10inch]

Maybe took it a little far, sorry. Just don’t understand why one would get so defensive when I just said there is more potential in that sled(Cat) by cutting weight without sacrificing durabilty.

The G4 is wide, it is the heaviest, and torsion springs are stupid. But it is a super capable and that motor is SWEET. I have NEVER been with any Doos in our group that have held us up because it gets too techy. Yes they are the worst sled when it gets nasty, but a very capable sled that works well, and very much so worth a consideration in 2019 IMO. That being said, there is more room for improvement on that sled now than there is on the cat. Lots of sensible weight loss, skid work, clutch work, and narrowing that could happen there. It still works well, like the Cat, but could easily be better, thats all I’m saying.

I almost always go to far, sorry as well.


I am not convinced that getting below 400 lbs on a powerful but durable platform is happening for a while from the factory. Cat and Doo have had YEARS to try and match or beat Polaris at the weight game. Even with redesigns only one offers a 408 lb 800cc mtn sled. We have seen Doo lose weight to gain it back and they still offer front end reinforcements to make it stronger, adding back weight. The new 850 Polaris is heavier. Doesn't sound like they could find any more easy places. Now with Cat and Doo at the same weight for a 3" track sled as Polaris I am not sure we are racing forward to 300# sleds.


I certainly could be wrong. For $22k BDX will sell you a 400# Omega with a 900cc motor. So maybe in a couple of more design cycles they will get them down but it will be a while because the price is going to have to come down too. Pretty friggen sweet though, a 40 lb weight loss with bolt on's.


We have had cost no object 400# sleds for 20 years now. Rarely does it get much better, and how much durability is being sacrificed to get there.


I think we are there on weight and that is why the HP has started going up, I am sure Cat will follow. Not huge for me though, I think all of the 800 were/are capable of taking me further than I should go at any given time. I have spent time on 200hp machines and don't really need one.


Great times for new sled buyer for sure. Like I mentioned I have tons of friends on Doos, they LOVE them, they just keep on buying new ones. I have just never taken a shine to one, and I have tried, I really have!

 

[goridedoo]

I almost always go to far, sorry as well.


I am not convinced that getting below 400 lbs on a powerful but durable platform is happening for a while from the factory. Cat and Doo have had YEARS to try and match or beat Polaris at the weight game. Even with redesigns only one offers a 408 lb 800cc mtn sled. We have seen Doo lose weight to gain it back and they still offer front end reinforcements to make it stronger, adding back weight. The new 850 Polaris is heavier. Doesn't sound like they could find any more easy places. Now with Cat and Doo at the same weight for a 3" track sled as Polaris I am not sure we are racing forward to 300# sleds.


I certainly could be wrong. For $22k BDX will sell you a 400# Omega with a 900cc motor. So maybe in a couple of more design cycles they will get them down but it will be a while because the price is going to have to come down too. Pretty friggen sweet though, a 40 lb weight loss with bolt on's.


We have had cost no object 400# sleds for 20 years now. Rarely does it get much better, and how much durability is being sacrificed to get there.


I think we are there on weight and that is why the HP has started going up, I am sure Cat will follow. Not huge for me though, I think all of the 800 were/are capable of taking me further than I should go at any given time. I have spent time on 200hp machines and don't really need one.


Great times for new sled buyer for sure. Like I mentioned I have tons of friends on Doos, they LOVE them, they just keep on buying new ones. I have just never taken a shine to one, and I have tried, I really have!

Yes the fact that you can drop 30-40lbs off the Cat with bolt ons that are not all titanium and CF is what I am talking about. Would be nice to see 20 or so of that go away with little things like cleaning up the rear end, lightening the tank, drive system, and trying to get rid of things like excess fasteners and plastic. I think we could see a 415-420lb sled that holds up absolutely fine and be at 400 with just a can.

 

[john6719]

Yes the fact that you can drop 30-40lbs off the Cat with bolt ons that are not all titanium and CF is what I am talking about. Would be nice to see 20 or so of that go away with little things like cleaning up the rear end, lightening the tank, drive system, and trying to get rid of things like excess fasteners and plastic. I think we could see a 415-420lb sled that holds up absolutely fine and be at 400 with just a can.

I'm planning on having a '19 Alpha arrive this fall. I'd really like to know what bolt ons will get me 30-40lbs without messing without doing a headlight delete or messing up the intake. And no belt drive, don't trust that with 3" track.

 

[snopro11]

I'm planning on having a '19 Alpha arrive this fall. I'd really like to know what bolt ons will get me 30-40lbs without messing without doing a headlight delete or messing up the intake. And no belt drive, don't trust that with 3" track.

Yup me too! Get a list going please. First thing is a diamond s ti can?

 

[Vern]

Yup me too! Get a list going please. First thing is a diamond s ti can?

If the ctec has a similar can to the zuke, that's like 20 lbs right there.

 

[turboless terry]

To try to steer back on track a little, I did get to spend a good part of two days on an Alpha. You can read my review on snowmobile.com. Conditions varied from 30" of fluff to windblown crap to tracked up meadows.

A couple thoughts beyond what the review says and re: this op - I don't own a G4 but I did own an XM and have spent time riding 17, 18, and 19 G4s. If you've spent any time comparing all 3 major brands you know the Doo handles very differently from the Cat and Polaris. It's hard for someone to jump off a Doo and feel at home on the other brands. Not as much between Cat and Polaris imo.

The biggest strengths I saw with the Alpha was the ability to roll on edge more naturally than any sled I've ridden (imo), very quick cornering in the trees, and great hook up and ability to climb. Consequently it's a blast to ride...and easy. The advantage over a G4 imo is you don't have the twitchy, unstable front end. The Alpha is predictable even in crappy conditions. I don't feel the Doo is, but that's just my opinion and definitely something you get used to with time.

I only got to sidehill moderately steep slopes. It didn't wash out. It seemed fine. However, if super steep sidehilling in spring or harder snow is what you care about, it is my guess a normal skid will outperform it. That's all I used to care about but after ending up underneath my Axys a couple times I personally ratcheted it back a few degrees!

The other thing I would say is it was fine on the trails. The easy adjust shock makes it nice and it really isn't that tippy...I guess because the front end is normal. I didn't tip it over from overriding it once but you do have to hold back the rider input a bit - overall it's pretty stable imo. Great to see some innovation and if you like variety like I do the Alpha makes for a fun day on the snow.

Pretty well the exact idea I got from my short time on the alpha. Easier and more predictable in rough stuff compared to my gen 4. Not all over the handlebars to keep it going straight. No feedback through the bars. Once in a great while the gen 4 feels like it just broke your wrist. As far as the gen4 having problems making it somewhere. That is rider. It is more than capable. You might have to be on top of your game more than an axys or cat but it will go there. I just did 2 sidehills that most wouldn't try and the doo pulled it off. I actually thought it was going to wash so I had my foot down waiting for it. I think everyone goes to far talking about these sidehills. Especially in the spring conditions. These sleds will do more than most have balls to try. I bet the alpha is the same. The other thing most go to far on is weight. They are all really close anymore. 20 pound difference doesn't mean spit. The doo rides lighter than a axys. The bigger footprint and 3 inch tracks mute the weight out compared to years ago. Save your money end put it in the gas tank or buy a turbo because I bet the only thing you notice is your wallet is lighter.

 

[goridedoo]

I'm planning on having a '19 Alpha arrive this fall. I'd really like to know what bolt ons will get me 30-40lbs without messing without doing a headlight delete or messing up the intake. And no belt drive, don't trust that with 3" track.

Well those are two of the big ones. A can, speedwerx lightweight kit, and bdx chaincase cover should get you right around 29lbs for $1500.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

 

[sno*jet]

Well those are two of the big ones. A can, speedwerx lightweight kit, and bdx chaincase cover should get you right around 29lbs for $1500.

you mean the $900 dollar kit from speedwerx that drops like 2 pounds? looks useless imo.
easy stuff i see: can, flap delete, LED taillight, remove clamshell/insulation from exhaust and coat it (i hate the fiberglass mess under the hood)
like 20 pounds maybe.

 

[goridedoo]

you mean the $900 dollar kit from speedwerx that drops like 2 pounds? looks useless imo.
easy stuff i see: can, flap delete, LED taillight, remove clamshell/insulation from exhaust and coat it (i hate the fiberglass mess under the hood)
like 20 pounds maybe.

Thats the one... they claim 8. And like I said $1500 for all.

 

[sno*jet]

Thats the one... they claim 8. And like I said $1500 for all.

so your gonna buy fancy runners for cat skis and remove/replace the new controls, put a cheap flap on it and tear into your new motor/clutches?
man id just ride it.

 

[goridedoo]

so your gonna buy fancy runners for cat skis and remove/replace the new controls, put a cheap flap on it and tear into your new motor/clutches?
man id just ride it.

No absolutely not. LOL. Just following up from above, 30lbs could be removed with bolt ons. No way I would spend $900 on that kit, I would throw the flap and taillight in the trash and call it a day.

 

[goridedoo]

Yup me too! Get a list going please. First thing is a diamond s ti can?

Yep first would be the can. 17lbs? Get rid of can, flap, windshield, and foam... 3-5lbs? Oil tank cover or belt drive 3lbs/5lbs? Trail tank claims 5 but is actually 3 I believe. LW brake rotors a pound. Grippers are lighter as well I believe.

Personally I would clean up the flap and tailight, and do a can and belt drive and be done. I wouldnt be scared of a belt drive and 3” track at all, I’m over chaincases. Out of the box the Cat doesnt really need squat, so at this point I would like to see them cut some more weight. Thats all. The can can stay heavy, that will get replaced anyway.

 

[sno*jet]

^ok, good, cuz looks like the biggest part of their 8 pounds is in "bolt-offs" , removing two bogie wheels.
I think 20 pounds easy, 30 will take you to tinkerville, tinkering more than riding.

 

[goridedoo]

^ok, good, cuz looks like the biggest part of their 8 pounds is in "bolt-offs" , removing two bogie wheels.
I think 20 pounds easy, 30 will take you to tinkerville, tinkering more than riding.

Yes I agree, thats why I am saying Cat should do that 10 or so pounds of tinkerville for us at the factory, they are capable and they probably will for 2020.

 

[Teth-Air]

So many people need to go take a spin on the NEW cat ASCENDER. It is just as narrow as an axys. The chassis and suspension package on the new mountain cat is at the very least as good as an axys, I've ridden all 3 brands extensively and I think it's pretty tough to beat honestly. They are all pretty good right now. Anyone that still has it in their head that the cat is heavy, wide, and ill handling is completely out of the loop and needs to be educated.

I rode it and it is a big improvement but still no AXYS in the light weight department. Motor is strong but not so noticeable unless you have some room to open it up. Power keeps building where Polaris drops off. My AXYS has the 2.6 track and belt drive. I would say the Cat is getting closer to the chain drive version AXYS with the steel drive shaft and e-start. Remember there is about 35 lbs difference between a manual start AXYS with 2.6' track and the electric start AXYS with 3" track.

 

[psychosledder73]

Then what are you doing? This is a sled forum and we are comparing/discussing the new sleds...


They ALL have places where weight could be easily cut, just look at the exhaust cans.


The Cat is now among the lightest so why sacrifice durability further? The Doo and the Poo have the less durable front ends still, you can keep that and the savings.


Pretty stupid not to acknowledge Poo's abysmal engine program, but I am SURE they got it right this time. Never before but, surely this time. Go ahead check one...


I have ridden the G4 in 165 and 175. I hate the way these things handle. Couldn't ride a Doo since my demo ride on a '14 when that "improvement" came along. Nice to see they stick with torsion sprung skids still too. I just cant Doo it. Too bad because the local Doo dealer stands head and shoulders above the others here.


So for ME, with a list of valid experiences on all the sleds but the Alpha. It would be STUPID to choose anything but Cat.


I love the hype behind the 850s though, 50 more cc and the game has changed? The Poo needed it, but if it doesn't last more than a season like most Poo motors, you can have it. The guys at Doo had good reliable power, they need to go back to the drawing board and design a mountain sled with proper steering geometry, a modern skid and, fix the clutching. I do not see how it competes at all frankly.

That horrible clutching in the 850 robs a ton of that engines go in the
Form of heat . Doo needs to give up on their **** clutches they've been making for 30 years ..... And yes the handlebar setup is always sweeping down low . Trail sled steering post. And torsion springs bahahahahaha

 

[powder pounder]

I rode it and it is a big improvement but still no AXYS in the light weight department. Motor is strong but not so noticeable unless you have some room to open it up. Power keeps building where Polaris drops off. My AXYS has the 2.6 track and belt drive. I would say the Cat is getting closer to the chain drive version AXYS with the steel drive shaft and e-start. Remember there is about 35 lbs difference between a manual start AXYS with 2.6' track and the electric start AXYS with 3" track.

Did you see the American snowmobile magazine article with 2018 weights. The mountain cat was lightest bye 3 lbs. ready to ride weight. The Polaris was a 155 belt drive 2.6 but it was electric start. So that is 14 to 20 lbs? But also not the 3 inch track and heavier shocks like cat. Probable the non painted tunnel and rails too?
Any which way all three are close enough in weight to stop arguing about. Add a can or a heavy weight bumper, tunnel bags etc. Makes the difference from lightest to heaviest.
Also weights were in chart with snow on sleds. Cat gained the least weight and ski do the most.
Sorry if this was already posted.