Alpha riding struggles

[summ8rmk]

Yes, that's an 18 mtn cat in pic.
My favorite sled is my Alpha, followed by the Khaos, then a twin rail cat.

I have a few decades of riding under my belt. Summits/M8s/RMKs hence the name.

I don't care for Summits from 2004 up to 2022. Haven't tried the G5.
Skidoo is in its own category as far as handling. Cat and Poo are similar to each other.

The alpha is the fastest reacting sled out there. Going through the trees, u can whip around faster than anything. So fast that u will fall over if ur not gentle.

Shock settings seem to have more impact on an Alpha vs other sleds.
Rider position is also very important.
U should almost always be in a neutral position. Stand at the back of the boards if u want to steer with ur feet. Up front with ur shins against the dash when going down hill, and u have awesome control, Slalom like a skier.

Go to the Meadow, practice riding in different spots on the boards. Repeat over and over. Change shock settings also. Repeat.
See what changes, keep making changes to the sled and ur riding position until u notice positive change.
Remember, counter steer on a cat, and it makes the sled roll over more so than other brands and exaggerated on the Alpha.

My Alpha has the elevate, so not Apples to Apples. My shower weight is 180.
Ski shocks are 65, fts 85, rear 120ish.
Skis on 1 if snow is soft, 2 on firm snow or i bottom out on wheelies. Fts on 2, Rts is 1-2 throughout the day, depending on wheelies and climbing. Don't lock unless snow is deep and i can't climb the hill.

Cat and poo are the best for sidehilling.
If u prefer meadows and straight up hill climbing, skidoo may be better suited.

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[sno*jet]

alphas are designed to tip easy for mountain riding. The 2011 summit was a very flat riding chassis, they had not even created their flexible rear suspension and tracks that their later sleds have now to get it to tip easier like the sled you have. They also had swaybars. Id say if ya dont want to learn to ride it how it was intended and just want to follow your dad, get what hes riding, sell yours and pocket some money maybe. Or, you can set yours up to ride flat. suck it down as mentioned and add a swaybar. Thats complete opposit of how mountain sleds are trending tho.
you could just practice practice practice and start leaving the old man way behind if youre in the mountains, your sled is an absolute weapon compared to those others.

 

[BubbleNuts]

Alpha should be significantly easier to ride than a 2010 m8 and a 2011 doo. Are you trying to ride it wrong foot forward? It’s very easy to over ride the alpha. In most riding conditions it is easier to stay in the normal centered riding position

Nope neutral. I just feel like it bucks me around more then any of the other sleds I’ve rode

 

[BubbleNuts]

Yes, that's an 18 mtn cat in pic.
My favorite sled is my Alpha, followed by the Khaos, then a twin rail cat.

I have a few decades of riding under my belt. Summits/M8s/RMKs hence the name.

I don't care for Summits from 2004 up to 2022. Haven't tried the G5.
Skidoo is in its own category as far as handling. Cat and Poo are similar to each other.

The alpha is the fastest reacting sled out there. Going through the trees, u can whip around faster than anything. So fast that u will fall over if ur not gentle.

Shock settings seem to have more impact on an Alpha vs other sleds.
Rider position is also very important.
U should almost always be in a neutral position. Stand at the back of the boards if u want to steer with ur feet. Up front with ur shins against the dash when going down hill, and u have awesome control, Slalom like a skier.

Go to the Meadow, practice riding in different spots on the boards. Repeat over and over. Change shock settings also. Repeat.
See what changes, keep making changes to the sled and ur riding position until u notice positive change.
Remember, counter steer on a cat, and it makes the sled roll over more so than other brands and exaggerated on the Alpha.

My Alpha has the elevate, so not Apples to Apples. My shower weight is 180.
Ski shocks are 65, fts 85, rear 120ish.
Skis on 1 if snow is soft, 2 on firm snow or i bottom out on wheelies. Fts on 2, Rts is 1-2 throughout the day, depending on wheelies and climbing. Don't lock unless snow is deep and i can't climb the hill.

Cat and poo are the best for sidehilling.
If u prefer meadows and straight up hill climbing, skidoo may be better suited.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Ok I might try this as I’m like 175 in street clothes

 

[BubbleNuts]

alphas are designed to tip easy for mountain riding. The 2011 summit was a very flat riding chassis, they had not even created their flexible rear suspension and tracks that their later sleds have now to get it to tip easier like the sled you have. They also had swaybars. Id say if ya dont want to learn to ride it how it was intended and just want to follow your dad, get what hes riding, sell yours and pocket some money maybe. Or, you can set yours up to ride flat. suck it down as mentioned and add a swaybar. Thats complete opposit of how mountain sleds are trending tho.
you could just practice practice practice and start leaving the old man way behind if youre in the mountains, your sled is an absolute weapon compared to those others.

Ok this thread is definitely giving me some opptimisim to keep the alpha though. Just feels like I’m not progressing riding as I thought I would

 

[Pinchecharlie]

So how do you alpha guys combate the “heavy steering” feeling? Is that a running board position thing ? I do t have air shocks but clickers and coil springs 21 154x2.7 . I can only go left too lol. So tired of the arm pump I can’t sleep from pulsating sore arms in the dang middle of the night ugh …lol

 

[Vern]

I don’t notice the heavy steering unless I’m turning around slowly on hard pack. Majority of the day I’m steering with my feet and throttle. Alpha is the first sled I’ve had that I can hop on for the first ride of the season and go ride all day and not be sore the next day. If you’re yanking the sled around with your arms all day, then you definitely need to work on riding technique. Let your body weight and throttle control do most of the work. Like summ8rmk says, a little counter steer goes a long way on the alpha. I tend to stand about mid board in neutral position most of the day, only going wrong foot forward in real tight slow situations. I run around 70psi in skis, 50-55 fts, and 160 in rear, all on number 2 position but I’m a bigger guy than it sounds like most of you are at about 280 in street clothes.

 

[Deltasherpa]

Most guys that post on here have more experience backing up a sled than Syxxes has going forward on his alpha!

 

[summ8rmk]

Ur weight is a bit of a disadvantage.
Bigger guys don't understand how much effort it takes for light guys to toss a sled around. I wear a backpack that weighs ~20 lbs. When i take it off, I feel a difference in sled response. My shoulders are happy when the pack is off, and i feel free, but the sled doesn't respond as well to my movements. I call my backpack my ballast. It helps me initiate and maintain one ski riding.

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[ndfb35]

The amount of sink us big guys get in deep snow is not a benefit at all. I'm 250 in clothes and 270 kitted out. The difference in flotation my friend who is 220 kitted is vastly superior. I sink he floats.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Sometimes you get junk made stuff too. The rivet thing coming from cars and motorcycles is crazy. I hear “fit and finish” and it makes me laugh. Having something that takes that much stress riveted on there is maybe ok for a race team that re-does stuff between races but it’s not for the public. He (syxxes) rides hard and that’s what we’re supposed to do. Could be built on Friday at 4 too I guess? Or maybe dropping it out of his truck everyday had something to do with it lol!
I THINK…. The aloha maybe just takes more skill. Why? Cause it responds to more subtle nuisance kinda rider Iinput. Iam new , iam honest, I dont move my feet around that much or even really know when it helps or when it does different stuff. I use more force than it takes and I go swerving all over the place . So my opinion is those kinds of inputs and composure and knowledge of when and how and how much are kinda a advanced riders thing?? I dunno but I’ve only owned one sled , a alpha rail and it’s pretty hard to not “over ride.” I don’t feel like Iam over riding it I feel like iam forever trying to save it from my own input (fighting it) or iam not committing enough and it’s heavy and i do the dreaded slow motion roll over lol. I’ve had some magic moments where it’s so good and effortless that I know it’s me. Iam tired by lunch and exhausted by quitting time and super sore the next day. So don’t feel bad lol

 

[Vern]

Being a big guy is a double edge sword, especially on an alpha. I agree it makes moving the sled around easier vs a smaller guy, but it also means the sled reacts to small movements a lot more and I’m also not able to react to those unwanted sled movements as quickly as a smaller rider might be able to. 90% of the time that I get stuck or into a bad situation on the alpha is from those times where I might not have just the right foot placement and the sled reacts or turns quicker or sharper than I intend and I’m not quick enough to recover, or I simply have to much mass and by time I realize it’s happening my weight has pulled the sled over passed the point of recovering it.

 

[Jeffy Mac]

So yesterday was my 4th day one the my alpha and i am really struggling and seem to be fighting the sled in any condition. So even in a flat meadow the nose just seems to roll and dig into the snow. I pumped up my shocks but still didnt help much. So main question here is i felt way more comfortable on my dads 2011 ski doo summit and 2010 m8000 and i even tried my uncles 2018 m8000 and seemed to ride way nicer then my alpha. My dad who is 50 and has rode sleds since he was a kid and has been to sicamous and can get around the mountain pretty freakin good said it even feels harder to ride then his 2011 summit. So is nose kinda wanting to dive to one side an alpha thing or an arctic cat thing since there a little heavier in the front end it seems. I didnt ride my uncles 18 much other then the 1 trail hence why im asking. Should i considering going to ski doo? Any questions to just ask. Hope y'all can provide some insight thanks

Welcome to Alpha rail life that’s why I sold mine. You can’t just sit on it and ride it around in soft snow you have to be a step ahead. With the alpha rail it will want to pretty much fall on its side. Wait till you get it on a hard packed slope sidehilling and the rear washes out..!?

 

[IDspud]

Took two kids 16 and 14 on a 35 mile ride Saturday up an off camber logging road and into a variety of terrain. Both never been on a sled, both on our alphas.
Told both to use their feet not their hands to steer.
Told both to use the throttle to lift the front and if there’s a question give it more not less.

Both did fantastic through a wide variety of terrain.
Both rode our twin rail 18 for about 30 minutes and wanted the alphas back.

Point being, characteristics aren’t for pros only.

PC,
If you aren’t moving your feet you aren’t riding the sled.

 

[BubbleNuts]

So how do you alpha guys combate the “heavy steering” feeling? Is that a running board position thing ? I do t have air shocks but clickers and coil springs 21 154x2.7 . I can only go left too lol. So tired of the arm pump I can’t sleep from pulsating sore arms in the dang middle of the night ugh …lol

I noticed the same thing

 

[MTN_VIPER]

Ok i felt like it does kind of not seem to react to certain inputs sometimes its kind of a wierd feeling? So you went the hole closer to the skid then cant remember how many holes it has 3? What sorta things felt better? climbing, sidehill, pow turns/ carving etc? also 154 or 165 and what shock pressures you run? Did you have issues with lots of nose roll kind if you know what i mean. I watch syxxes and hes an experienced alpha rider and even he looks squirly sometimes

Yeah I think that there are 3 holes if I remember correctly. From the factory it comes in the longest position and I'm now in the middle hole.
Sled is a 154" and I also have Gripper skis on it. I weigh 180 in street clothes and currently run 65/110 psi (EVOL shocks) in the ski shocks. 45psi front track shock and rear 150/210 psi (rear shock has dual chamber conversion).

Biggest difference is that it is less squirly when on the throttle. Also trenches less in deep heavy bottomless snow. Before when down in a tight hole where you had to be on the throttle to get out, the skis would go sky high and the sled had a mind of it's own. This would cause me to be in a spot where I didn't want to be. At first I thought it was just me, but then I had my buddy who is younger and a better rider than I am try it and he had the same issue.

 

[BubbleNuts]

Most guys that post on here have more experience backing up a sled than Syxxes has going forward on his alpha!

Did you see his rail break?

 

[BubbleNuts]

Sometimes you get junk made stuff too. The rivet thing coming from cars and motorcycles is crazy. I hear “fit and finish” and it makes me laugh. Having something that takes that much stress riveted on there is maybe ok for a race team that re-does stuff between races but it’s not for the public. He (syxxes) rides hard and that’s what we’re supposed to do. Could be built on Friday at 4 too I guess? Or maybe dropping it out of his truck everyday had something to do with it lol!
I THINK…. The aloha maybe just takes more skill. Why? Cause it responds to more subtle nuisance kinda rider Iinput. Iam new , iam honest, I dont move my feet around that much or even really know when it helps or when it does different stuff. I use more force than it takes and I go swerving all over the place . So my opinion is those kinds of inputs and composure and knowledge of when and how and how much are kinda a advanced riders thing?? I dunno but I’ve only owned one sled , a alpha rail and it’s pretty hard to not “over ride.” I don’t feel like Iam over riding it I feel like iam forever trying to save it from my own input (fighting it) or iam not committing enough and it’s heavy and i do the dreaded slow motion roll over lol. I’ve had some magic moments where it’s so good and effortless that I know it’s me. Iam tired by lunch and exhausted by quitting time and super sore the next day. So don’t feel bad lol

Ok this is almost word for word how I feel riding my alpha. Do you still have it or did you get something else?

 

[BubbleNuts]

Welcome to Alpha rail life that’s why I sold mine. You can’t just sit on it and ride it around in soft snow you have to be a step ahead. With the alpha rail it will want to pretty much fall on its side. Wait till you get it on a hard packed slope sidehilling and the rear washes out..!?

What do you ride now?

 

[BubbleNuts]

Yeah I think that there are 3 holes if I remember correctly. From the factory it comes in the longest position and I'm now in the middle hole.
Sled is a 154" and I also have Gripper skis on it. I weigh 180 in street clothes and currently run 65/110 psi (EVOL shocks) in the ski shocks. 45psi front track shock and rear 150/210 psi (rear shock has dual chamber conversion).

Biggest difference is that it is less squirly when on the throttle. Also trenches less in deep heavy bottomless snow. Before when down in a tight hole where you had to be on the throttle to get out, the skis would go sky high and the sled had a mind of it's own. This would cause me to be in a spot where I didn't want to be. At first I thought it was just me, but then I had my buddy who is younger and a better rider than I am try it and he had the same issue.

Hmm might not help me. I will have to look but I’m pretty sure but I think mines on the middle hole and mines a 165 so a lot more planted I’m guessing