I would have posted from the meeting but we had no cell or internet service on bluett pass. For info , WSSA did vote for a $40 snopark permit. We've been getting them for free for all these years, It's a fair price, and wont "kill" anyone. We had to match the same price as the skiers snopark to avoid them buying a cheeper pass from the motorized program. To all of you who are going to have a fit, just remember our Motorized program is in serious trouble, we've lost nearly 28% of our grooming funds the last 3 years, with sled registrations trending down the last 3 years we had to do something. Also, WSSA argued back and forth as to how much to raise the license fee's for our sled, the "Cheep skates" won out, I'm not a rich guy by any means but I'd certainly pay 20 or 30 bucks more per sled to get better grooming and all else that goes with the program. But they did vote for a $10 increase per sled the first year and 10 more on the second year for a total of $20 over a 2 year period, BUT REMEMBER, the sled registration money will not hit our bank account till 2014 at the earliest, It still has to go thru Olympia. Most likely we wont see the snopark money till 2014 either, so for next year, expect less grooming than this year, just the facts folks. The groomers did take another 9% hit for this coming season. I have to say for all the people that wanted to increase fee's ect, very few people showed up, Myself and several others were very disappointed with the turn out. Dont get me wrong , I've always been a wssa supporter and they've done a lot for our sport, but trying to change the minds of some of these people is a real challenge. Many of them are still living in the year 2000, not 2012. At least they agreed on some kind of an increase, now lets see if we can get it thru Olympia ??
ALMOST LIVE FROM THE WSSA SUMMER MEETING
- Thread starter JETJOHNSO
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you want guys like me to pay more just cause some candy asses can ride a groomed trail!! BS! Looks like I wont buy tabs for my sled this year!
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paulharris
Well-known member
Nice work Dan, thanks
Thanks for the update JetChev.
We differ on this point but I think the WSSA did the right thing by not raising fees any more than they already have. The increases seem reasonable. I am fine with a little less grooming. If people could learn to park and invest in snow tires then we wouldn't need as much maintenance/plowing in the parking lots either.
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We differ on this point but I think the WSSA did the right thing by not raising fees any more than they already have. The increases seem reasonable. I am fine with a little less grooming. If people could learn to park and invest in snow tires then we wouldn't need as much maintenance/plowing in the parking lots either.
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i wish i was not rich like you !! if i had your not rich, i'd burn mine !!
Thank God that Food, Gas, oil, Housing, Insurance, minimum wage, TV, Internet, Furniture, new car prices, new sled prices, tire prices, shop rates, Water, Power, Sewer, groomer prices, repair bills, hotel costs, big bore kits, construction prices, L&I rates, Sales tax, tools, and replacement parts haven't gone up 1 dollar since 2000... That would really be too much to ask of folks over a period of 10 years.
Attitudes like yours really don't help to solve anything, get with the program.
I don't mean to get ticked off, but when was the last time a fee for a service you are provided stayed the same for over 10 years? When was the last time ANYTHING stayed the same for 10 years? Do you make the same yearly income you did in 2000? Do you drive the same truck, ride the same sled, pay the same for your lunch??? The bottom line is that EVERYTHING in life goes up in price, the fact we have gone so long without an increase is amazing, and it's the whole reason it is feeling like such a 'shock' now. For cripe's sake we are talking about increasing the fee for the entire year by the amount you spend on food and gas for your sled in 1 FREAKING DAY!!!! Hopefully you never go to Canada, they charge you what we currently pay for a year for EVERY SINGLE DAY that you ride up there. Talk about a deal, we're almost stealing our groomed trail at that cost comparison. Three (3) days of Trail passes at Boulder Mtn, in Revelstoke would cost the same or more than what the new rate will be for an entire season here!!!
I have read so many posts from so many people on here who just don't get it. If we don't come up with more money to fund the program, the grooming conditions won't be reduced any more, entire ares will be cut from the program - No grooming at all, no snowpark plowing, no birms at trail heads. Without designated parking areas off of the county roads, you WILL NOT be able to sled on public lands.... your truck will be ticketed for illegally parking, or even towed if it's blocking traffic. Conditions on popular trails will make them virtually impassible the moguls will be so big. It takes some places everything the groomers can afford to give right now just to keep the bumps less than 2 ft tall. Parking lot plowing during the peak of the season is barely adequate at best, any worse and you'd be ripping axles off in the potholes just keeping enough momentum to keep from getting stuck! Let's not kid ourselves, the average person DOES ride the trail for some amount of time to get to the good stuff, it's reality and it's not going to change. Once we lose it it's virtually gone.... When was the last time you heard about a significant new trail or area OPENING to sleds?
The fact of the matter is that we only have what we have until we lose it, then it's gone... Do you really want to be one of the people who contributes to the demise because you're too cheap to buy a $40 parking permit? I know I don't. Sledding is my 1 true passion in this life at the moment, and I WILL FIGHT for my privilege (not right) to continue to sled here.
Shame on you for your selfishness.
I don't know if you're aware, but 2 and 3 years ago we almost lost access to the largest sledding area around here because of insufficient funds. the Tampico/Ahtanum area receives an estimated 38,000 sled visits each season, without money to clear the lots and groom the trail, other areas would be completely over-run with the load, if there were any other places locally left open. Sledding enthusiasts like the Yakima Ski-Benders, Vanamberg Enterprises, and countless businesses and individuals took it upon ourselves to pay our way above and beyond the $35 to keep from losing the area and thanks to the Discover Pass, access to Tampico is now safe from the chopping block. If you really claim to never ride the trails, where do you think others would come looking? Do you have a nice area others would love to know about? When the rest of us are locked out of our favorite spots due to lack of funding, you better watch out, you may be getting some visitors, and we'll bring the 4 ft moguls with us. What's the cost of a sled compared the cost of licensing it, REALLY! If you've got extra plowing or grooming money you're not needing then great, send it over here, because we desperately NEED IT here.
rite on fordguy, that's what i was gonna say !!
I'll probably cut the registration for all the sleds but my primary. There's no way I'm buying more than one parking pass either if I'm required to buy one with each sled registration. I used to register all my sleds even if the others were rarely used. Not anymore.
Dan thanks for all you do. Sorry for all the knuckleheads that don't get it. Some people are so tight on the wrong things. I would much rather rip down 20 miles of trail at 60-80mph than 25 because the whoops are so bad. I don't ride anywhere but Baker where there isn't a pretty long trail ride to the good stuff. So I have been getting sno park passes with my sled registation now. Will I be paying $40 for each sled plus registration. I firmly believe in pay for play. If you use it you should fund it. We shouldn't ask the other 95% of the state to pay for our niche sport.
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paulharris
Well-known member
hopefully you will recieve a nice ticket that will cost you 3 times as much as the tabs would have.
No more free pass with sled registration. My understanding is you pay for both. So essentially sled registration has over doubled.
And Matte Murder, just because someone doesn't share your opinion on something doesn't make them a "knucklehead". Some of us don't want to pay more and we don't care that will equate to less grooming. That is a valid and understandable point of view that deserves the same respect as your point of view.
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Wa this is said knucklehead. Wasn't referring to you. I would refer to you, respectfully, as "wrong headed". Just for reference, i don't like any form of the government or anything they do except the military. We are so over-taxed right now that anytime the gov't, any gov't, gets in my pocket it pizzs me off. But we have a pay to play system right now that seems like it works pretty well but is under funded because less people are "playing". We need more "players" or more per player or we do with less. There are no "other" people we can tax to pay for what we do.
You can hope all you want. I've never seen or heard of anyone getting a ticket for expired tabs on a sled. The level of enforcement done beyond the parking lot is so minimal that some people have figured out that it's essentially a voluntary donation if they buy tabs.
I know many people that have been fined for no tabs. The Forest Circus, I mean Forest Service has employees on sleds in many parts of the state that ride around all day looking for folks with no tabs and folks riding in where they shouldn't. They are easy to outrun and they can not get most places but they are in the area.
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Less players because the sport is expensive and the economy sucks. So why the hell make it more expensive for the few that remain. It is the fundamental question facing our country. We must toughen up and take care of our self. Times are tough and until things get better we need to be more self sufficient and "do with less" instead of punishing the few that remain by taxing the crap out of them. Just my 2cents.
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tar
Well-known member
There is nothing stopping any of us from donating money or time to the grooming program.
If you think it's worth more donate to your local groomer, if you have equipment plow the road and parking lot.
Back when I had a groomer there were many times people would donate money for extra grooming after the funds where gone,
I would put the money in the fuel tank and donate my grooming time.
This is our snomobile program it's up to all of us to make it a success or not.
Tar
If you think it's worth more donate to your local groomer, if you have equipment plow the road and parking lot.
Back when I had a groomer there were many times people would donate money for extra grooming after the funds where gone,
I would put the money in the fuel tank and donate my grooming time.
This is our snomobile program it's up to all of us to make it a success or not.
Tar
Isn't buying tabs how Olympia and the Forest Service figures how many sledders there are using the system?
If you don't buy tabs, they don't know you ride. So our numbers shrink and we become less of a voice every year.
Seems to me I see MORE people every year up on the volcano not less. So, if our numbers are declining that means less people are registering and riding illegally. That sucks because the greenies can say use has declined so why not consolidate riding areas and provide "better, safer, and more reliable grooming" for us. Their doing us a favor right?
I have historically always been a rebel. I didn't even start registering my sleds till 2006. I only did it because I realized their were 3 less voices without me.
I don't like to give them my money, I don't care about groomed trails one little bit either. In fact, I prefer them ungroomed and unmaintained. I would rather the road became covered and I had to sidehill in for 6 miles in 7' deep ghacker. But...
Just like some animals, we are an endangered species my friends. Without buying tabs we are dwindling towards extinction year after year. We are one species the huggers will not rescue and nurse back to healthy numbers either.
I will keep buying tabs and pay more. Its better than becoming a silent member of the snowmobile species.
Just my opinion..
If you don't buy tabs, they don't know you ride. So our numbers shrink and we become less of a voice every year.
Seems to me I see MORE people every year up on the volcano not less. So, if our numbers are declining that means less people are registering and riding illegally. That sucks because the greenies can say use has declined so why not consolidate riding areas and provide "better, safer, and more reliable grooming" for us. Their doing us a favor right?
I have historically always been a rebel. I didn't even start registering my sleds till 2006. I only did it because I realized their were 3 less voices without me.
I don't like to give them my money, I don't care about groomed trails one little bit either. In fact, I prefer them ungroomed and unmaintained. I would rather the road became covered and I had to sidehill in for 6 miles in 7' deep ghacker. But...
Just like some animals, we are an endangered species my friends. Without buying tabs we are dwindling towards extinction year after year. We are one species the huggers will not rescue and nurse back to healthy numbers either.
I will keep buying tabs and pay more. Its better than becoming a silent member of the snowmobile species.
Just my opinion..
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well fortunately most get it,
bikerpyro, the ticket you get is way more than the license fee is. think about that, also, you've never used an out house at the snopark? never had to chain up because the road was not plowed ?? think about it, It's 10 buck more for your sled registration 10 BUCKS ?? and you only need one snopark permit no matter how many sleds you have, NOT $ 40 FOR EACH SLED, 94 ford guy, thanks, nice post , appreciate that, I guess if $ 50 more a year to ride is to much, it's time to take up another sport in the winter, just remember ,, a lift ticket to ski or snowboard is $ 50 to $90 A DAY depending on where you go, The cross country skiers pay more than we do just to ski down a trail !!! With that being said, hope I didnt ruffle any ones feathers to bad, but facts are facts, and 94ford guy said it best, thanks
bikerpyro, the ticket you get is way more than the license fee is. think about that, also, you've never used an out house at the snopark? never had to chain up because the road was not plowed ?? think about it, It's 10 buck more for your sled registration 10 BUCKS ?? and you only need one snopark permit no matter how many sleds you have, NOT $ 40 FOR EACH SLED, 94 ford guy, thanks, nice post , appreciate that, I guess if $ 50 more a year to ride is to much, it's time to take up another sport in the winter, just remember ,, a lift ticket to ski or snowboard is $ 50 to $90 A DAY depending on where you go, The cross country skiers pay more than we do just to ski down a trail !!! With that being said, hope I didnt ruffle any ones feathers to bad, but facts are facts, and 94ford guy said it best, thanks
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No ruffled feathers here. Even if we don't agree 100% on things I appreciate your effort and participation. I know your intent is to improve things for all riders.
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paulharris
Well-known member
perhaps state parks could set up a pay station to charge a daily trail fee to the guys who refuse to register their sleds. And that money could go into the grooming program. $20 per day, per sled would be the same that they charge in many areas of B.C.
It would be your choice.....either buy your tabs for the year, or pay at the snowpark each day you ride
you gotta pay to play, nothing is free. you can't go to a ski area and ride their lifts for free.
It would be your choice.....either buy your tabs for the year, or pay at the snowpark each day you ride
you gotta pay to play, nothing is free. you can't go to a ski area and ride their lifts for free.
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