Truer words were never spoken. Go BCA. I have and have been very pleased with them.
Airbag packs??
- Thread starter kreps306
- Start date
Truer words were never spoken. Go BCA. I have and have been very pleased with them.
I've been riding with an ABS Freeride since 2009. The pack was expensive, but I feel a lot better riding with it. It has held together awesome and is as good as new. I will say it is significantly lighter than some of the competitive packs my buddies have and still holds just enough gear.
Good information and thanks for all the reviews. I am looking into getting an Avy bag this year also. From what I gather here, you should try one on before you buy one. Where or which dealer has them in stock to make sure you get the right bag to fit your body? I don't know of anyone in North Dakota that has bags in store to do this.
Thanks, I.P.
Thanks, I.P.
Since I'm one of the people that recommended you try on a bag, I'll follow that up with many of the online retailers have a no cost return policy (check before you order) so you can do your research, pick the pack with your preffered technology, reference that manufacturers size chart and order, knowing you can return if it doesn't fit well.
Keep in mind any full canisters have to ship via hazmat so extra $35 in US and more to canada. And you can not fly with them. Not an issue for sledders as we tend to drive, but something many don't realize. One alternative is the new Black Diamond Jet force line of packs. Uses a battery and fan to fill. Slick technology and no cannister refill, you can fly with it, and practice with it often as you don't have to refill a canister each time you deploy.
Also, Youtube is a good place to watch pack reviews to see someone demo the bag inflation, how to repack, show pocket layout, etc.
Keep in mind any full canisters have to ship via hazmat so extra $35 in US and more to canada. And you can not fly with them. Not an issue for sledders as we tend to drive, but something many don't realize. One alternative is the new Black Diamond Jet force line of packs. Uses a battery and fan to fill. Slick technology and no cannister refill, you can fly with it, and practice with it often as you don't have to refill a canister each time you deploy.
Also, Youtube is a good place to watch pack reviews to see someone demo the bag inflation, how to repack, show pocket layout, etc.
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Thanks for the info. Will research more.
S
Spaarky
Well-known member
I am in about the same boat. We are loading up and going to First Place Parts to try on bags. It's a haul, but I am hoping it's worth it.
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suitcase
Well-known member
For sure try them on! IMO you should put on your layers and then put the pack on, walk around the store for a bit. spend a little time in it. you want to be comfy..
I have had the ABS freeride, ABS 15 escape, the BCA Float 22, and the Wary vest.
The next bag I buy will be the BCA 25 turbo.
I prefer the BCA bags, they are a bit lighter and seem to be more comfortable. The only draw back is BCA uses air which in cold cold weather you lose some presure in the bottle, not alot but it does take a bit longer to deploy.. Im talking -20 -30 degress. I dont snowmobile when it is that cold, hahhaa..
I went with the wary vest this year, just because im tired of having all the weight on my back. but I want the avy pack. So I am going to see what the vest feels like. So far it does not feel like a back pack, it takes the weight off by not having thin straps but a larger area over your shoulders.
I have like all of my packs, really don't have any bad things to say about ABS or BCA, they are both great products. If you have any tuff questions Call shane at Blownmotor he has used many of the brands he carries and has some great insite that has helped me choose whats right for me.
I have had the ABS freeride, ABS 15 escape, the BCA Float 22, and the Wary vest.
The next bag I buy will be the BCA 25 turbo.
I prefer the BCA bags, they are a bit lighter and seem to be more comfortable. The only draw back is BCA uses air which in cold cold weather you lose some presure in the bottle, not alot but it does take a bit longer to deploy.. Im talking -20 -30 degress. I dont snowmobile when it is that cold, hahhaa..
I went with the wary vest this year, just because im tired of having all the weight on my back. but I want the avy pack. So I am going to see what the vest feels like. So far it does not feel like a back pack, it takes the weight off by not having thin straps but a larger area over your shoulders.
I have like all of my packs, really don't have any bad things to say about ABS or BCA, they are both great products. If you have any tuff questions Call shane at Blownmotor he has used many of the brands he carries and has some great insite that has helped me choose whats right for me.
I just skimmed the comments so forgive me if I missed this BUT, check out the Black Diamond Jet Force packs, we sell them at my work and they are nice looking bags, and you dont need a a canister of any sort, its all battery powered. Very cool pack and you can blow it off over and over without needing a re fill.
B
Bacon
Well-known member
Dang, those look pretty slick. Little on the spendy side. Would be nice to not have to worry about refilling canisters.
I had briefly mentioned the Jet force but worth it again as the technology is sweet. They were developed jointly with a couple other companies so the tech is available from all three manufacturers. Black diomand is in the biz of comfortable packs so some are reporting they are comfortable packs. They are just now available so price will be high this first season then maybe retailers will start selling below msrp as is typical.
Very excited to see how these work in the field then may consider one next year. Being able to practice is great without expense of canisters. Battery has power to deploy 4 or more times on one full charge...when battery is new. Replacement of battery is estimated to be every 3 to 5 years. No idea on battery price, but if it is kept down to around the cost of 1 or 2 canister fills, that would be great.
No worries on air travel which is not possible with a canister. And no hesitation of deploing it in the field because you just repack it and are ready to ride again.
Lots of good Youtube vids on it like this one...
http://youtu.be/vo6XuQ1LzD4
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Very excited to see how these work in the field then may consider one next year. Being able to practice is great without expense of canisters. Battery has power to deploy 4 or more times on one full charge...when battery is new. Replacement of battery is estimated to be every 3 to 5 years. No idea on battery price, but if it is kept down to around the cost of 1 or 2 canister fills, that would be great.
No worries on air travel which is not possible with a canister. And no hesitation of deploing it in the field because you just repack it and are ready to ride again.
Lots of good Youtube vids on it like this one...
http://youtu.be/vo6XuQ1LzD4
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I really like my Wary Avy Vest, but it looks like I got one of the last ones...
Bummer.
I had the Snowpulse Highmark bag before and prefer the vest-weight distribution is much better.
One thing I REALLY don't like about the ABS packs is the 'wing' formation of the bags. It offers no head protection whatsoever and in the event of an avalanche puts you face down as the bags move to the top of the debris.
Their own graphic even shows it:
Another:
I think the bags that deploy from the top of the pack are the way to go.
Snowpulse:
Bummer.
I had the Snowpulse Highmark bag before and prefer the vest-weight distribution is much better.
One thing I REALLY don't like about the ABS packs is the 'wing' formation of the bags. It offers no head protection whatsoever and in the event of an avalanche puts you face down as the bags move to the top of the debris.
Their own graphic even shows it:
Another:
I think the bags that deploy from the top of the pack are the way to go.
Snowpulse:
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A lot of different thought processes on the bag layouts. Pros and cons to all. Some give better head protection. Some have two bags rather than one in case one gets torn. Various design choices to try to assist in your final resting position.
The ABS doesn't have as much head protection as the Snowpulse. Though the ABS bags do come up as high as the middle of your head, the two individual bags and pivot from your side to behind you as you tumble. That is one strong point of the Snowpulse. Our wearing a helmet helps from certain types of trauma, but I agree the snowpulse has an advantage there and some of the airbag is down below your shoulders so potentially less likely to bury your torso.
I didn't like the large single bags that deploy at shoulder level and above because there is some evidence that your arms and torso can be buried so even if your head is out, buried arms can impede self rescue. The point of the ABS bags is that your entire torso stays on top and laying flat which give you the best chance to pushout, rollout, etc. since your torso and arms are not buried. You are less likely to be buried in a "standing" position which traps arms. So the bags with one pillow at shoulder level and above were out for me. I do like the layout of the snowpulse bags, but there were a few other features of the ABS that made me go that route (nitrogen and bang trigger, twin bags, etc.)
A lot of theory in all of it and each manufacturers design. Way more than can be repeated in this thread. It would be extremely interesting to see some documented study on final resting position of various avy bag wearers as any trends there would be beneficial information, but we do know that all bag designs are better than nothing, as was shown again in the second Cooke slide yesterday (again on Henderson) where the avy bag wearer had minor injuries and ended up on top of the debri where as the other rider ended up 7 feet under (and miraculously survived because there were 5 guys digging him out...including the gut that was in the avy but had the avy bag. He was actually able to help rescue the other rider. That speaks volumes).
Bottom line is each person should research and go with the tech that resonates with you because really it's all gong to be pretty close to one another...at least when compared to no bag.
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The ABS doesn't have as much head protection as the Snowpulse. Though the ABS bags do come up as high as the middle of your head, the two individual bags and pivot from your side to behind you as you tumble. That is one strong point of the Snowpulse. Our wearing a helmet helps from certain types of trauma, but I agree the snowpulse has an advantage there and some of the airbag is down below your shoulders so potentially less likely to bury your torso.
I didn't like the large single bags that deploy at shoulder level and above because there is some evidence that your arms and torso can be buried so even if your head is out, buried arms can impede self rescue. The point of the ABS bags is that your entire torso stays on top and laying flat which give you the best chance to pushout, rollout, etc. since your torso and arms are not buried. You are less likely to be buried in a "standing" position which traps arms. So the bags with one pillow at shoulder level and above were out for me. I do like the layout of the snowpulse bags, but there were a few other features of the ABS that made me go that route (nitrogen and bang trigger, twin bags, etc.)
A lot of theory in all of it and each manufacturers design. Way more than can be repeated in this thread. It would be extremely interesting to see some documented study on final resting position of various avy bag wearers as any trends there would be beneficial information, but we do know that all bag designs are better than nothing, as was shown again in the second Cooke slide yesterday (again on Henderson) where the avy bag wearer had minor injuries and ended up on top of the debri where as the other rider ended up 7 feet under (and miraculously survived because there were 5 guys digging him out...including the gut that was in the avy but had the avy bag. He was actually able to help rescue the other rider. That speaks volumes).
Bottom line is each person should research and go with the tech that resonates with you because really it's all gong to be pretty close to one another...at least when compared to no bag.
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Would like to hear some opinions on the snowpulse packs too.
J
jerrydecoy
Well-known member
There are only a few places I will have fill my canisters. Most scuba and paintball shops are equipped to fill em' but the places that know Avy packs will actually cool the canister so you don't lose pressure when it gets cold!
After almost spending a night in the back country on more then one occasion I have a float32 and it's full of stuff to make sure I survive. My wife and son have the float 22's but I just can't get enough gear in them
Just ordered a BCA Float 25 turbo. Looks like the happy medium from what I've been seeing. My avi gear is now complete.
Just so people know, ABS has the strongest bag on the market, the previous one was the strongest( orange material) our new one is kevlar re-enforced high tensile river raft material. We drove an F350 over the bag and it went all wonky but did not pop, and we NEVER promote that our bags protect you from trauma! There is zero proof of this, they are not car air bags. Despite what you read, air bags are designed to float you, not protect you. The only way to effectively protect your head and neck is with a neck brace and helmet.
On another note, I know there seems to be a lot of theory on how you will ride down an avalanche and how you will end up at the bottom by what bag you are wearing. Being caught in an avalanche is like falling while surfing Jaws Wave in Maui. If you get hammered, you will be tossed around like nobodies business, don't think for one minute your gonna try to overpower it....how you end up is luck of the draw, if you think your going to cruise down on your back because of your air bag then you must believe the safety card in an airplane that shows people with smiles on their faces after their jumbo jet has crash landed in the ocean and they have exited with their life jackets on.....the advantage of wearing an avy pack is they make you a bigger nut, and those float to the top....and if you get caught in a big one, that is all that matters is that you are on or near the top.
All air bags work, try on the one that fits you the best and take the bag from purchase to blowing it off to setting it back up to use again and see all the things you have to do to some bags and how little you have to do to others to reset them. Pros and Cons vary for each rider and their location to a dealer or shop. Then make your choice, and try to never have to use it by taking as many courses as you can and riding smart. Have a safe winter!
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D
Drewd
Well-known member
Just picked up a lightly used BCA Float 18 for wife and she loves its size. She doesn't exert herself much while riding and doesn't need a water bladder in her backpack.
I just got in a new BCA Float 25 and so far it looks good. My only complaint about BCA packs is the Made in China logo. Its shame that a local company that started in a garage in Colorado can't manufacture these in the USA.
All I need to do is find a place to fill my canisters. The girl answering the phone at local scuba shop in COS told me that they have to hold and observe all new tanks as a visual inspection for a couple of days. Has anybody had this happen to them?
Black Diamond Halo 28 Jetforce is $1295 and is listed for sale on several sites. Word on the street is this company donates money to causes that are against power sports. If a more friendly company comes out with one, I'll probably get it
I just got in a new BCA Float 25 and so far it looks good. My only complaint about BCA packs is the Made in China logo. Its shame that a local company that started in a garage in Colorado can't manufacture these in the USA.
All I need to do is find a place to fill my canisters. The girl answering the phone at local scuba shop in COS told me that they have to hold and observe all new tanks as a visual inspection for a couple of days. Has anybody had this happen to them?
Black Diamond Halo 28 Jetforce is $1295 and is listed for sale on several sites. Word on the street is this company donates money to causes that are against power sports. If a more friendly company comes out with one, I'll probably get it
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I found Ortovox free ride 26 with canister on sale for $715, The ergo,s of the belt are tailored with easy quick connect and great fit. I have never used one before . It sure looks top notch
I take mine to Underwater Connection on Rusina Road. They are familiar with the canister (BCA) and will fill it on the spot.
I bought one of the wary vest. It fits well way more comfy then any backpack that I have worn. I have an Abs vario as my other pack now. The avy vest has surprisingly lots of storage space. Only thing that I am worried about is being to warm with the vest as even with a back pack on my back gets wet from sweating.
