Abolish the IRS! Lets hear some support for the Fair Tax!

[V-Man]

How many of you guys have read up on the Fair Tax? I think it is awesome! Vote for Huckabee in 4 years. He's a strong supporter of fixing our outdated tax system and abolishing the IRS.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

 

[Wade]

Very interesting proposal. There's about a million questions generated by that proposal. The charitable donation would have a fit, since it doesn't address them. Looks to me like the person to person market would explode. Do businesses pay federal sales tax on exported products, and the material that goes into that product? I didn't get how they plan to collect medicare and social security.

I like the idea, but I'd like to see some more examples of how taxes are collected.

 

[V-Man]

Very interesting proposal. There's about a million questions generated by that proposal. The charitable donation would have a fit, since it doesn't address them. Looks to me like the person to person market would explode. Do businesses pay federal sales tax on exported products, and the material that goes into that product? I didn't get how they plan to collect medicare and social security.

I like the idea, but I'd like to see some more examples of how taxes are collected.

Why would exports need to be taxed? The US could be far more competitive on a global scale if the overall cost of our goods was less.

Medicare and social security contributions are funded from the same sales tax.

Taxes are collected one and only one way, finished new goods. At a 23% rate every citizen will pay less tax per year and the government has exactly the same amount of tax revenue as it does today. Illegal immigrants pay tax. No more "underground economy".

Estimates suggest that upwards of 17 trillion US dollars are invested outside of our country to avoid our tax system. Talking about a stimulous. That money would all come back and we'd attrack foreign investment at levels never seen before

The pre-bates concept to make sure people living at poverty levels don't have to pay taxes is ingenious if you ask me. The FAQ on that site is really very interesting.

 

[ArcticBoy]

Look at all the tax attorneys you'd out out of business . Oh wait most polititions are attorneys, doubt it happening

 

[Snow Fox]

Never see it happen, at least not right now with our corrupt political system.

 

[Wade]

Why would exports need to be taxed? The US could be far more competitive on a global scale if the overall cost of our goods was less.

That's why I formed the sentence as a question. The new material required to make a wedgit, would it be taxed. And, then the only the final product not be taxed, only if it's exported.

Medicare and social security contributions are funded from the same sales tax.

Yha, it keeps saying no payroll tax, but I didn't see how payroll would be funded. I mean, does this mean that all citizens now get social security, or only the working ones that. And, how would thay know if you didn't file a tax return?

Taxes are collected one and only one way, finished new goods. At a 23% rate every citizen will pay less tax per year and the government has exactly the same amount of tax revenue as it does today. Illegal immigrants pay tax. No more "underground economy".

But, doesn't that mean people will just rebuilt things, and stop buying new? And, how bad will the illegal importation of un taxed items be. Don't forget the illegal sugar and rum imports that happened, when they created special taxes for them. Heck, they still run cigs and some alcohol. Like the fact that illegals will have to pay taxes, and everyone else.

Estimates suggest that upwards of 17 trillion US dollars are invested outside of our country to avoid our tax system. Talking about a stimulous. That money would all come back and we'd attrack foreign investment at levels never seen before.

But most of that will be financial investments, that could be made anywhere. But, they'll make them here, to avoid capital gains, then just take the profits out of the country. That won't create many/any jobs.


[/QUOTE]The pre-bates concept to make sure people living at poverty levels don't have to pay taxes is ingenious if you ask me. The FAQ on that site is really very interesting.[/QUOTE]

You'll have to have that, or the liberals won't bite. They can just keep increasing that without end. No one will make comparisons about how their getting more back than they pay in. Just an exemption rate. This won't get rid of the unwilling to work, they'll still have to be welfare.


The idea sounds good, but I see the unwilling to work already looking for loop holes. The drug dealers, and mob guys will pay taxes for a change. Like I said, I'm not against it, just a lot of questions.

 

[V-Man]

With a Fair Tax, there will never be behind the scenes tax increases. It is only collected one way, period.

As I mentioned in another thread, Obama just raised taxes today that will certainly effect some of the 95% of people he promised would not see a penny of tax increases. He just signed off on a cigarette tax hike. This is going to go on, and on, and on, and on......... Our tax system is too open to taxing us all in so many different ways. Our tax liability is far higher than what you think it is on April 15th.

 

[V-Man]

That's why I formed the sentence as a question. The new material required to make a wedgit, would it be taxed. And, then the only the final product not be taxed, only if it's exported.

As I understood it, businesses would not be taxed on materials that are re-sold, just like today. I beleive those rules are enforced quite well today.

Yha, it keeps saying no payroll tax, but I didn't see how payroll would be funded. I mean, does this mean that all citizens now get social security, or only the working ones that. And, how would thay know if you didn't file a tax return?

Good question. Maybe employers would still report earnings to the social security administration but not have any withholding.

But, doesn't that mean people will just rebuilt things, and stop buying new? And, how bad will the illegal importation of un taxed items be. Don't forget the illegal sugar and rum imports that happened, when they created special taxes for them. Heck, they still run cigs and some alcohol. Like the fact that illegals will have to pay taxes, and everyone else.

Agreed, there will always be an underground. Retailers would have to be held accountable and I beleive the Fair Tax even provides financial incentive for collecting the tax and cooperating. At least all these crooks that make money running underground operations will be paying their share of tax instead of having it hidden in cash only businesses.

But most of that will be financial investments, that could be made anywhere. But, they'll make them here, to avoid capital gains, then just take the profits out of the country. That won't create many/any jobs.

Today, if I make money in foreign markets, the US gov still taxes it. I'm not sure how other countries work though. Despite other country's tax codes would foreign investment in US companies really be a bad thing?

You'll have to have that, or the liberals won't bite. They can just keep increasing that without end. No one will make comparisons about how their getting more back than they pay in. Just an exemption rate. This won't get rid of the unwilling to work, they'll still have to be welfare.


The idea sounds good, but I see the unwilling to work already looking for loop holes. The drug dealers, and mob guys will pay taxes for a change. Like I said, I'm not against it, just a lot of questions.

Well, it wouldn't stand a chance if poor people paid taxes too. You are exactly right though, that aspect of the plan could get liberals to bite. In reality, it closes down all their back door taxes so it'll be a serious fight. If you look at who supports it today, there are only 2 democrats from both the house and senate.

I'll have to do some more research on what the common objections are. Over 20 million dollars has been invested in the creation of this plan. I bet there are answers out there for nearly every objection.

 

[2XM3]

Heres your tax form::


1) how much did you take in ????

a) if over 250,000.00....................................X 15%..........

b) if over 40,000.00,less than 250,000.00...............X 7.5%.......

c) if less than 40,000................................No Tax Due, skip the form


2) Mail in your payment, there are NO deductions,no estate tax, no captial gains tax, no loopholes, no exceptions


3) thats all the goverment gets, and they have to make due with it just like the rest of us.

 

[V-Man]

Heres your tax form::


1) how much did you take in ????

a) if over 250,000.00....................................X 15%..........

b) if over 40,000.00,less than 250,000.00...............X 7.5%.......

c) if less than 40,000................................No Tax Due, skip the form


2) Mail in your payment, there are NO deductions,no estate tax, no captial gains tax, no loopholes, no exceptions


3) thats all the goverment gets, and they have to make due with it just like the rest of us.

The trouble with this is the gov ends up with a massive revenue shortfall. The Fair Tax results in the same revenue from taxes because there is no tax shelter for the underground economy (cash), illegals pay, tourists pay, and the IRS employees get canned. April 15th would be just another day of the year with no special significance!

 

[SAWYER]

I'm done paying taxes

 

[Wade]

Putting the IRS out of business would be worth make me happy.

If it's limited to new products, I wonder how a house is handled. Today, I pay my mortgage with post tax income. Wonder if a house would be new tax, or tax exempt? Definitely couldn't be just new houses only. And, the Realtor's will howl if you can't get a deduction on interest, unless the payment is tax free. Hummm.

Also, imagine the windfall from a increased sales tax on gas.

Personally, I'd take it one step further. Federal can only collect sales tax. States only collect income tax only. Local can property and sales tax.

 

[opus]

While we are at it, we need to privatize the USPS. Enough of the govt sink holes.

 

[swampwater]

You will never abolish the IRS even with the fair tax as even in states that rely on sales taxes they have their revenue collection agencies. The best aspects of a national sales tax is that it is voluntary, don't want to pay the tax don't buy the items, it will secure taxes from underground monies when they purchase items and it is not a direct tax on the citizens as the constitution requires. The enforcement will be applied against the business community not against individual citizens. Swampy

 

[mtn_extreme]

so how does each individual state gain appropriate funding that it requires ?

 

[Wade]

so how does each individual state gain appropriate funding that it requires ?

State's rights. Each State can change their constitution to say what they want, up to some federal limits. If they want to collect taxes, I doubt the constitution forbids it. States where pretty independent when that document was written.

 

[V-Man]

so how does each individual state gain appropriate funding that it requires ?

This is national only, states would still collect taxes the way they see fit. Money supplied to the states by the federal government would be the same as it is today. There is not reduction in overall tax revenue received by the federal gov.

 

[mtn_extreme]

So a 15% federal tax and the state taxes what it want's thru sales tax also? Since were already at 6% would the state have to go up to 15% to make up the difference.

Then were being taxed 30 cents on the dollar, hmmmmmmmm?

 

[V-Man]

So a 15% federal tax and the state taxes what it want's thru sales tax also? Since were already at 6% would the state have to go up to 15% to make up the difference.

Then were being taxed 30 cents on the dollar, hmmmmmmmm?

The state sales tax has no reason to change. British Columbia has two sales taxes, GST, and PST.

The federal sales tax would be 23% and your state's would stay at 6%, so you would pay 29%. It may sound scary at first, but read a little more about it. You will pay significantly less overall tax than you do today.

 

[T-BO]

If Ron Paul is for it then I am for it! Man that guy is smart.