700 RMK Clutching Setups

[hardhat32]

I was checking to see what clutching setups people have tried on the newer 700 RMKs. I remember there were a few threads out there back before the 800s were out, but I haven't been able to find them.

I have an '08 with an SLP pipe, 19-41 gears. Normally I ride at 9,000' to 11,000', but I have ridden it down around 6,000'.

My last setup was 10-58 weights with the stock primary spring, and a 58-40.46 helix with a Red/Black (140/240) secondary, and a derlin washer.

The setup seemed to work well on the trail or in a drag race situation, but it would start to loss RPM when climbing. I believe the .46 is causing the initial angle to lasts too long, and a .36 would be better. I'm planning on trying a shim to decrease it to a .40.

I'm thinking that Belly Busters or MTXs with a different helix would work better. Has anyone tried the Belly Busters or MTXs with the 700's, and if so what helix/spring combination works well with them?


It also seems like I lost 200 RPM or so when I switched from the stock 1115 to the 1080. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[fraufarm]

from SAWYER-

"SLP pipe with HPS can
VForceIII reeds
SLP Airhorn
62 gram bellybuster wieghts with almond in the primary
62/40 team helix with black/purple in the secondary
Regeared
Vented

It is clutched absolutely perfect for 3-7k ft. It will spank most 800's out there. "

I remember he said it ripped so i copied his post

 

[trailtoy1993]

It also seems like I lost 200 RPM or so when I switched from the stock 1115 to the 1080. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, if I remember correctly the 080 is ever so slightly narrower than the 115 so it does loose a little rpm with the narrower belt.

 

[hardhat32]

I was noticing that the specs on 080 are a bit narrower than the 115, and I was starting to think that was the reason for the RPM drop.

I hear a lot of people saying the XS809 belt will drop RPM too, and I notice it is narrower than the 115. I was wondering if the width has more to do with the RPM drop than the type of compound.

 

[IDAHO HOT SHOT]

I bought an 08 700 rmk 155 the year they came out. I bought an SLP single and strapped it on with stock clutching and it ripped. I was a little high on rpm's at 8500 but it sure ran good. Then I did something stupid, I clutched it to specs and it didn't run for $hit. 6-10k ft

 

[mtnclimber19]

I have an 08 700 with and slp pipe and hps can geared at 19/42. I was running slp's recommended setup of 62 gram mtx weights with a one gram rivet in the tip and the stock helix and didn't really like it all that much.
Then I switched the helix and secondary spring to a 60-40-.46 with a black/purple spring and it improved it some, held rpms better when climbing but was a little soft on the bottom end so I put in a team gold primary spring and that woke up the bottom end.
I recently put on a team tied secondary and have tried a few different spring and helix combos but still wasn't quite happy because it would'nt pull 8200 consistently. Then this last weekend I put the polaris 58 gram weights back in the primary and now I am really pleased, it ripped all day. The team gold spring in the primary might be too much for the stock wieghts as it engaged a little high, but really makes it snappy off the bottom end. I think an slp green/pink would probably work really good since it is 20lbs lighter intial rate but about the same finish rate as a team gold.
So I would think 10-58's with an slp green/pink spring in the primary and a 60-40-.46 helix with a black/purple spring and you would be very happy. You might even be able to run a red/black sping in the secondary and still hold rpms.
Hope this helps, good luck!

Oh and also I tried running the xs 809 belt and lost 2-300 rpms compared with the 115.

 

[Scoutin Wyo]

I have an 08 700 with and slp pipe and hps can geared at 19/42. I was running slp's recommended setup of 62 gram mtx weights with a one gram rivet in the tip and the stock helix and didn't really like it all that much.
Then I switched the helix and secondary spring to a 60-40-.46 with a black/purple spring and it improved it some, held rpms better when climbing but was a little soft on the bottom end so I put in a team gold primary spring and that woke up the bottom end.
I recently put on a team tied secondary and have tried a few different spring and helix combos but still wasn't quite happy because it would'nt pull 8200 consistently. Then this last weekend I put the polaris 58 gram weights back in the primary and now I am really pleased, it ripped all day. The team gold spring in the primary might be too much for the stock wieghts as it engaged a little high, but really makes it snappy off the bottom end. I think an slp green/pink would probably work really good since it is 20lbs lighter intial rate but about the same finish rate as a team gold.
So I would think 10-58's with an slp green/pink spring in the primary and a 60-40-.46 helix with a black/purple spring and you would be very happy. You might even be able to run a red/black sping in the secondary and still hold rpms.
Hope this helps, good luck!

Oh and also I tried running the xs 809 belt and lost 2-300 rpms compared with the 115.

I was running around Med Bow Peak this past weekend (10,500ft) and was pulling 8,050 on the trail in the morning and 7,900 in the afternoon, and less in the powder. My 07 700 has the 115 belt, 19/42 gearing, 10-58 polaris weights, black&purple stock spring in primary, stock secondary. I have 1,100 miles on her now and was wondering if I should look at getting a new primary spring or do I need a new belt. The clutch was gone through not too long ago and when prying open the spider the weights and rollers look good with some very minor lateral movement on the weights. It might be a good time to put in some comet shims, but it doesn't appear mandetory.

I remember reading in another 700 clutching post that peak hp is 7,900-8,100 which is what I want to acheive IN THE POWDER not the trail. Were should I look next?

 

[hardhat32]

I though mine felt like it had a little more power when it got over 8100.

I'd like to hold 8100 at 10,500' with the 38 degree angle in the secondary. That way I could use the 40 angle if I'm in an area with a little less altitude. In other words, I'd like to use run a 38 degree angle in an area like the Snowies, and use the 40 angle in an area like Island Park.

I though mine ran good in Island park area with the 58-40.46 with the Red/Black spring, but it did notice some loss of RPM when climbing or in the snow.

When I was in Southern Wyoming (about 2000' higher), I really noticed a loss of RPM when climbing. Changing to the 58-38.46 didn't seam to make much difference, but my track speeds were 20-30 MPH so I think a 58-38.36 would have worked much better. I also switch to my 1080 spare belt half way through the first day down there, so that probably made the problem worse

I'm planning to try putting in a shim so the helix would be more like a 55-38.40 with a little more spring. My other option is to try a Black/Purple secondary spring (160/240) with or without the shim.

Getting a new 1115 belt will probably help get a better idea too.

I'm also considering changing the gearing from 19-41 to 19-46.

 

[hardhat32]

Has anyone compared SLP MTX weights to the EPI Belly Busters.

I'm leaning towards trying belly busters, but I want to see how the sled works with the shim in the secondary.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

have you guys tried any of the D-8 setups? I see no reason why they wouldnt work good for you with minor adjustments...(most likey just reduce the helix by 2 * on the final angle for comparable elevations)then play with the weights to dial from there............I know on the 08 sleds the 6 runs identical clutching as the 8 other then the weights....no reason the 7 cant pull the setup....

 

[theultrarider]

For you guys still running the red/black secondary springs, I would try going to the black/purple in them. That has really helped with the backshift issues that I have had in several edge sleds that I have setup for people. Both 7's and 8's. As for the belts, I gained about 100rpm when I started using the 1115's on my edge's. I think it has more to do with the hard compound than it does the width.

 

[IDAHO HOT SHOT]

I though mine felt like it had a little more power when it got over 8100.

I'd like to hold 8100 at 10,500' with the 38 degree angle in the secondary. That way I could use the 40 angle if I'm in an area with a little less altitude. In other words, I'd like to use run a 38 degree angle in an area like the Snowies, and use the 40 angle in an area like Island Park.

I though mine ran good in Island park area with the 58-40.46 with the Red/Black spring, but it did notice some loss of RPM when climbing or in the snow.

When I was in Southern Wyoming (about 2000' higher), I really noticed a loss of RPM when climbing. Changing to the 58-38.46 didn't seam to make much difference, but my track speeds were 20-30 MPH so I think a 58-38.36 would have worked much better. I also switch to my 1080 spare belt half way through the first day down there, so that probably made the problem worse

I'm planning to try putting in a shim so the helix would be more like a 55-38.40 with a little more spring. My other option is to try a Black/Purple secondary spring (160/240) with or without the shim.

Getting a new 1115 belt will probably help get a better idea too.

I'm also considering changing the gearing from 19-41 to 19-46.

A couple of my friends are running 19-45 in their D8's and are very happy. You would think that if an 800 is running 19-41, a 700 should be geared down considerably. If you are running a 162, it would make even more sense

 

[hardhat32]

I'd like to try 58 Gram Belly Busters with a 60-38.36 helix and the Black/Purple Spring, but I think I'm going to do the gearing first.

Does anyone know if Carl's sell a 62-40.36 / 60-38.36 helix? I though I saw someone had a 62-40.40 / 60-38.40 from them for their 660.

Also how much effect would different styles of weights have on selecting the optimal helix combination? In other words, should the initial angle of the helix be reduces when going from a 10 series weight to an MTX?

 

[mtnclimber19]

I was running around Med Bow Peak this past weekend (10,500ft) and was pulling 8,050 on the trail in the morning and 7,900 in the afternoon, and less in the powder. My 07 700 has the 115 belt, 19/42 gearing, 10-58 polaris weights, black&purple stock spring in primary, stock secondary. I have 1,100 miles on her now and was wondering if I should look at getting a new primary spring or do I need a new belt. The clutch was gone through not too long ago and when prying open the spider the weights and rollers look good with some very minor lateral movement on the weights. It might be a good time to put in some comet shims, but it doesn't appear mandetory.

I remember reading in another 700 clutching post that peak hp is 7,900-8,100 which is what I want to acheive IN THE POWDER not the trail. Were should I look next?

Seems like your setup isn't too bad so far, with 1100 miles if you still have the original belt on I would try changing that out first. Thats a good life for a belt IMO.

And it probably wouldn't hurt to change out both of your clutch springs. They don't cost much and I agree with some of the other guys on here about putting in new springs every season. If you do change springs, like I said above, try an slp green/pink, I think you will like it.

The only other thing I would suggest is to switch to a diff. helix, one with less of a finish angle like a 40 or a 38, it will help you hold you rpms better in the powder or on the hills

 

[Scoutin Wyo]

Seems like your setup isn't too bad so far, with 1100 miles if you still have the original belt on I would try changing that out first. Thats a good life for a belt IMO.

And it probably wouldn't hurt to change out both of your clutch springs. They don't cost much and I agree with some of the other guys on here about putting in new springs every season. If you do change springs, like I said above, try an slp green/pink, I think you will like it.

The only other thing I would suggest is to switch to a diff. helix, one with less of a finish angle like a 40 or a 38, it will help you hold you rpms better in the powder or on the hills

You got it, original belt. I measured it and compared the measurements to my new 115 belt. The old belt measures exactly 0.020" less than the new belt. I think I will start with the new belt and move on to the new springs. Thanks!

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I'd like to try 58 Gram Belly Busters with a 60-38.36 helix and the Black/Purple Spring, but I think I'm going to do the gearing first.

Does anyone know if Carl's sell a 62-40.36 / 60-38.36 helix? I though I saw someone had a 62-40.40 / 60-38.40 from them for their 660.

Also how much effect would different styles of weights have on selecting the optimal helix combination? In other words, should the initial angle of the helix be reduces when going from a 10 series weight to an MTX?

hardhat..on the D-8's I tried belly busters, series 10's and series 11 weights...mtx's worked the best....problem with such a heal heavy weight with a big helix is it really loads the motor(which is good unless it takes the snappy away)..thats where the primary spring comes in..with the slp blue/pink I got best champayne powder track speed..but it was left lacking just a little on those short steep climbs where you cant get any run..went to the green/pink slp spring and problem cured..way harder aceleration,more track speed even with same finish angles..and sled very responsive..yet doesnt trench like stock does..........thats why I think it will work for you guys..guys are riding this basic setup, helix/springs/slp 68 weights from sealevel up to 12000 ft with nothing more then at about 7-8000 ft dropping 2* off the final helix angle, then dropping another 2* when they get over 10000 ft....then just play with the rivits in the weights..I run mine from sea level up over 6500 ft with nothing more then a rivit change.....

 

[Pownar]

08 163" (2.4) 700 SLP P&C PC5

I just threw a SLP orange primary spring in.(normally the stock primary@ 5K')
-10-58's (normally 10-62's at 5k' feet)
-19-42(always have this)

I was turning 8050 consistently at 10,000' and
8250 at 7,500'

Snow was kinda set-up.

I don't think it needs to be geared down anymore. It might spin out more.



Thanks Fast Tracks, you guys set me up perfect and hooked me up.

 

[hardhat32]

Aksnowrider- Thanks for the info. What your are saying makes sense to me. If the performance is the same I would actually prefer MTX's because of the ability to adjust them. I don't how the weights compare in performance because I've never ran either one.

What angles are you finding work well on the 800s. I have been reading the posts on the 800s, and I know there are a few different setups people have tried. I noticed the 60-40.36 was quite common, but I think that was posted last year.

According to team's chart, the belt pressure with the 60-40.36 and the black/purple (160/240) would have slightly higher pressure starting out than the 58-40.46 with the red/black (140/240) that I have. A 62 would be slightly less. I just really believe going from a .46 to a .36 would really help. I need to watch my track speeds a little closer in the snow, but I believe it is the 20-30 MPH area in the deep where I'm disappointed with my current setup. My theory was to go with a more aggressive weight and a less aggressive helix so it would have a similar up-shift, but a better back-shift (and torque sensing ability).

How is the engagement with the green/pink spring? I end up picking my way through trees at low speeds a lot so I'm a bit worried about having it too high. On the other hand, dropping the gearing would probably offset the effect of having a higher engagement. I'm sure having the clutch shimmed a bit tighter would help too.

With the same spring, does switching to MTX weights change the engagement RPM much?

The green/pink would be about 14% stiffer than stock, and a 62 gram MTX is about 7% heaver so I'm guessing the primary setup you suggested would work pretty good.

Thanks for the feedback you have given and thanks in advance for any additional info.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Aksnowrider- Thanks for the info. What your are saying makes sense to me. If the performance is the same I would actually prefer MTX's because of the ability to adjust them. I don't how the weights compare in performance because I've never ran either one.

What angles are you finding work well on the 800s. I have been reading the posts on the 800s, and I know there are a few different setups people have tried. I noticed the 60-40.36 was quite common, but I think that was posted last year.

According to team's chart, the belt pressure with the 60-40.36 and the black/purple (160/240) would have slightly higher pressure starting out than the 58-40.46 with the red/black (140/240) that I have. A 62 would be slightly less. I just really believe going from a .46 to a .36 would really help. I need to watch my track speeds a little closer in the snow, but I believe it is the 20-30 MPH area in the deep where I'm disappointed with my current setup. My theory was to go with a more aggressive weight and a less aggressive helix so it would have a similar up-shift, but a better back-shift (and torque sensing ability).

How is the engagement with the green/pink spring? I end up picking my way through trees at low speeds a lot so I'm a bit worried about having it too high. On the other hand, dropping the gearing would probably offset the effect of having a higher engagement. I'm sure having the clutch shimmed a bit tighter would help too.

With the same spring, does switching to MTX weights change the engagement RPM much?

The green/pink would be about 14% stiffer than stock, and a 62 gram MTX is about 7% heaver so I'm guessing the primary setup you suggested would work pretty good.

Thanks for the feedback you have given and thanks in advance for any additional info.

hard, I havent messed much with the 40 series helix(I ride from sea level up to 6500 most of the time with a jaunt as high as 8000 once in a while..with that said..I normally run a 42 finish angle when I did run the 40 finish it felt to flat for me(800 motor and low alt)...what I found with this setup and what I didnt like with the stock setup, carls cycle's setup, or slp's setup was they wernt upshifting fast enough on the initial...while keeping the motor snappy and still getting top rpms..so thats when I blundered onto this setup...I know most guys want a shallower helix(keeps that good backshift) but it gets you trenching on takeoff and seems a little more sensitive to major elevation/snow condition changes...its alot to ask..but this setup does work very good..I am averaging 1100 miles on a belt..can turn guys loose for hrs non stop climbing steeps on mine and the belt is luke warm...the way I look at it is the guys riding at 8000 ft are making about the same power as you at 3000 ft..so if they can pull it you should be able too..I think the black/purple sec spring is about as light as you want to go with the 115 belt otherwise its hard to control low speed belt slip..I have slp black/yellow I have been meaning to try but havent been able to do it yet(because mine is working so good)..engagment rpms on the green/pink went up about 200 rpms..but it is silky smooth and totally controllable in tight areas..

 

[Mag]

My wife's 09 700 with a 155 slp pipe and can ripps 8300 and doesn't back down. Simple setup of 65g MTX with 2 g tip and 1g in the center, blk/pink primary, black/purple secondary. Stock helix 64 42 36