550 fanner

[roo]

440/600?

thought 440 might make a little better power to weight? i'm all about the light weight stuff. if I had my way would have 440 550f and 600ho, but one thing at a time still gotta get 550 finished. taking couple days off. had mtr. in and out about 20 times last night. between notching out frame and mtr ducting. what I thought would be last ducting trim ended up gaffing palm with razor knife, all the way to the hilt. OOOOOUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!
7 stitches and couple days and be back in bizness! might have to give shop keys to a freind to keep me oughta there. these snowhawks are kinda addictive!

Had to notch frame to clear reed cage and cases. going to machine plate and double up frame where notched. it was either this or move whole mtr. forward
and notch frame on both sides in front of cases. I opted to mount mtr. in original posistion.

notch in top of mtr duct is for frame. kind of the same as 503f. will cut out duct holes after mtr is in. (this is where my night ended "slow down, if u get ahead of yourself this is what happens")

thinking about using 600 jaws pipe instead of 503f. 600 pipe matches up better to the stock mxz pipe- inlet, outlet, length and diameter of chamber.
plus stock 503f pipe is smaller than my cr 250?

 

[RudeAwakening]

you should make me one of those nice carbon cans!!! i will be your bestest friend!!!

 

[roo]

re:carbon can

the only way to make it right,(so it seals) is for u to send me your can! I don't have any time before the snow flies. after it starts we'll all be to busy riding.
going to make a bunch of parts this year, see how they hold up. silencer, rear tail section, skid plates, hood (carbon fiber and mesh), peice under tank (tunnel?), top cowelling (duct) for 550f, duct vent (same as 503), seat pan and maybe a complete belly pan. trying to get some done before the beginning of season, others will hopefully be done before we run out of snow, (which was end of may last season!)
Some of the parts will be available next summer others are not feasible to reproduce due to the cost, labor and access to material, (re: belly pan will require around $1500 of aerospace grade pre-preg carbon fiber). I can scrounge plenty of material for the smaller parts though.

Easy to make pretty carbon parts! not so easy to make them so they don't break!

 

[TLKDPROD]

Stick with the 550 !

If you want something light, don't even think about going liquid cooled ! You'll have to add 15-20 pound of components (heat exchanger, hoses, prestone, prestone reservoir...) your HAwk will overheat in spring time and that will complexify your project. Where will you find a snow-Hawk radiator ? AD Boivin may sell you one but at which price !!! Doug at Okanagan watersport doesn't have his track heat exchanger setuped for the nez ZX2 yet... No let me tell ya, there's no way you'll be disapointed with this light 550 you're putting together, i'm damn sure of that.

Can you tell me what is the stigner diameter of all the pipes you have ? (the stigner is the straight tube at the end of the pipe going to the silencer) That part of the tune pipe is apparently what limits the max output of HP and that might endup being your problem here... as it' mine as well: I have the 800 with the 600 Jaws Pipe which the stigner is 44mmOD (I figure they would use 1.5mm (or 1/16") thickness tubing) so the ID of that Jaws Pipe is probably around 41mm. Apparently that is too big for a 600 (unless you soup it up)(39mm is apparently a very good ID for a "stock" 600HO motor) and juuust a little too small for the 800 that should be around 43mm. ***

That being said, I'd probably start by trying both pipes, watch the jetting cauz it'll change drastically... and see which one works the best. My first idea will be that you'll be waaaay closer with the 503 pipe than with the Jaws 600. If that's true, check out what I would do personnally: I'd take the 503 pipe and cut the stigner off and put a bigger one that has around 20% more area (Make sure it's 20% more area, not 20% more diameter ! Let's be clear !), here's the logic I have behind that: 57 divided by 46 (the numbers of official claimed HP for each motor) equals 1.239. So, theorically 23.9% more "output" from the 550 versus the 503. I'd give it a first try at 17-20% (or any tube size close enough to achieve that). Shoot me the rough numbers on stigner sizes you got on the 503 and 550 stock pipe, I'm pretty curious ! That's the kind of thing I'm intersted in !


*** I got this information from a guy in Revelstoke, Turbo Al (he's on this forum under turboal), the guy is a Ski-Doo guru, he's been around since the early days of snowmobiling and he just understand these things inside and out. From clutching to any motor mod, custom silencer / exhaust fabrication, custom sled fabricating... he's the guy. He built me a custom silencer can about a month ago for my 800 (3 pound less than the Jaws silencer !) since I blew the stock one twice last year because I ran too rich and fuel got there and lighted then can exploded... Let me tell ya guys... I'll definetly be the loudest around... warmed it up the other day with it... HÖwwwwly snÄp ! ... about 15% louder than the 600 Jaws pipe/silencer Combo... which is already DAMN LOUD ! Sounded angry... Hope I wont be hated for that this winter... ! Here's his website if any of you want to have a look at what he does: www.thesledshed.ca He works with manipulation of waves to design & build his cans called "the thing".

 

[TLKDPROD]

All right, just some more details on what I just said on the silencer can up there I now have on my Hawk cause I had that sounded wrong:

"The Thing" cans are designed to keep the main exhaust pipe running at a constant pressure regardless of elevation or temperature. That's the main reason why I choose them. I had trust in this approach.

The way it works is they use SOUND wave accoustics to achieve the correct pressure correction. Accelorating a second return sound wave to push the original faster to achieve the proper pipe pressures at any elevation is a science that Turboal has studied and has applied to keep the main pipe pressure at the constant pressure.

And it had to fit in my Hawk, so that sure doesn't leave a lot of room... So the silencer end up being pretty deep, loud and crisp sounding but I must admit that I really like the angry sound coming out of it ! Can't wait to try it. I'll keep you posted on the results as I expect them to be pretty good.

 

[roo]

The thing!

WASN'T THAT A B GRADE 80'S HORROR MOVIE? loud pipes save lives! we don,t have alot of issues with loud pipes here, we don't ever get snow down low so your never riding around any residences. I'm assuming thats the problem? guess u might scare a few marmots!

 

[snow hawk gal]

Roo here is a cool shot of your machine

Many of you may not know but his machine came from MccBrothers.
Here is a link to just a little clip of theirs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY2AttHXiQI

Hopefully they will get their video done soon so we can all get freaken amped up by watching it. I know they were having some technical delays because they went HD this year.
So we will get our Hawk fix in HD... MccBrothers thanks for the extra effort to make it perfect guys.

Tammy

 

[roo]

back at it!

hands all better now. had some time to design some parts. had new bulkhead waterjet and waiting on heavier bearing carriers. anyone that is going to put 550 in their machine will have to make a new B.H. the carbs come out of the cages alot higher than the piston port motor. your pods don't have enough clearance below the B.H. in order to make enough room you have to move one of the tenons up about .800" and increase cutouts for pods also raised the window for the steering. will post cad drawings of B.H. if anyone wants to do this conversion.

conversion so far=


must use 503 pull start housing, fan blade and cover, throttle cable (you might get away with using 550 cable but didn't want to mess with removing oiler cable. also looked a little short).

wiring is super simple, after you get done second guessing yourself, don't have to change any of stock harness. 503 will drop and plug back in without having to redo anything, wiring or mechanical. think newer 550s have mpem, that would be a different story! will post wiring diagram.

notch frame for reed cage and case clearance. make plate to reinforce frame where notched, bolt or rivet new plate. have template for notches and plate.

have new bulkhead cut. must raise heigth of mortise for larger tenon. take your time and can be done with a hack saw and file. take blade off saw put through hole and re atatch. be careful not to cut mortise to wide. recomend cutting small and finishing with file.

must run 503 pipe, no room for jaws with cooling fan.

 

[RudeAwakening]

great work roo! i want to try it when its done!

 

[snowhawk jockey]

I dig the bodily sacrifice, you took it to the hilt no less, you are a true hero to sacrifice yourself for the better of your 'hawk.

Nice work on the can. You will want the perforated baffle in there to wrap the packing around and maintain shape for exhaust flow.

Playing with all that scrap prepreg is like smoking crack!! "Oh, just one more piece to lay up... There, even the throttle tube is graphite... Now to make the handlebar switch boxes out of lead to get the center of gravity right"

AMHIK!

 

[TLKDPROD]

We can tell you're an aerospace tool maker by the quality of your work Roo.

Now I have to add this: Have a look at my bulk head plate on my '08. You could shave lot's of meat from yours actually. But I think the steering column is longer on a 503 according to the 2 lower bolt holes where the U blocks screws on... So that's another point to take in consideration...

Just to tell ya that I wouldn't see any problem being thinner there, at all.

 

[roo]

and what was I worried about!

We can tell you're an aerospace tool maker by the quality of your work Roo.

Now I have to add this: Have a look at my bulk head plate on my '08. You could shave lot's of meat from yours actually. But I think the steering column is longer on a 503 according to the 2 lower bolt holes where the U blocks screws on... So that's another point to take in consideration...

Just to tell ya that I wouldn't see any problem being thinner there, at all.

the steer column is way longer on 503, but could be easily made to work like yours alot easier and cheaper than remaking. how thick is your bulkhead? when you get to the end of your steering throw does b.h. flex alot. 503 is .25 thick and flexes about .5 when you push hard.

 

[TLKDPROD]

.25 thick as well. For the amount of flex, that's a very good question.

My friend back east has succeeded to rotate his handlebar a full 180 degree twice on his 503 and once on his 800. The bulkhead plate has flexed as hell and allowed the handlebar to "go out of tolerance". One guy at each end of the handlebar and torque like a bastadje and it should do it. That's how he got it back in place !

I only heard of another guy who had this experience.
Anyone else on this forum ?

 

[roo]

yup!

got overzelous first ride on my hawk went down going way to fast for my skill level. thought i broke steering. pushed really hard and went back into posistion, with a pop. calen said I hyper extended hym joints.

 

[buffaloHAWK]

check this

when your bars turn to far it usually bends the plate where the rear heim attaches causing it to hit the bulkhead.i just take a hammer and steel rod and pound away till it clears the frame( usually after every ride) maybe i should get a 2 planker so i dont fall down so much

 

[RudeAwakening]

maybe i should get a 2 planker so i dont fall down so much

ahahhahahahahaha what fun would that be!

 

[buffaloHAWK]

ill stick to the hawk anyday.....unless i get an explorer kit! i hear they can get chicks??????lol

 

[roo]

pics

adjustable handlebar mount 1.5" or 3" forward, motor done!!!!!!!!!!!! few more days and all need is snow!

 

[RudeAwakening]

i think you should sell me your 550 when its done! dont worry, i will take good care of it!

 

[buffaloHAWK]

hey rude

your not the guy on youtube throwing your hawk off the cliffs are you?lol