5 days since the NEO dropped and nobody is even interested enough to care to want to discuss it here?
- Thread starter Escmanaze
- Start date
I think a half-price full-size sled is awesome.
I thought the free style was awesome almost 20yrs ago.
If memory serves me, that was a real midsized sled.
It didn't do so well either.
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I thought the free style was awesome almost 20yrs ago.
If memory serves me, that was a real midsized sled.
It didn't do so well either.
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C
I’m interested and optimistic for it
. I Spring Checked a Neo+ and hopeful that it will be right machine for my 10 and 14 year old girls to continue to gain confidence and work on mtn skills. My 14 year old tries to sidehill our 2018 RMK 600, but ergonomics are not close to ideal for her. For the 10 year old, getting her off the 440SKS will be a great thing.
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M
just saw them for the first time today. They are full-size?
The NEO is a Gen4 chassis with the seat, handlebars, and such trimmed down for a smaller rider. Very similar to what Polaris did with the EVO, although with a newer chassis and motor. What boggles my mind, especially in the Summit NEO, is that the engine is de-rated to 55HP. That's about the same as Poo's 550 fan. The Summit NEO would be hands-down a better choice than the EVO RMK if you could get it with the full output of that engine (85 HP); just about any rider could use the full power in deep snow. I've said it about the EVO, and I think the same could be said of the NEO: if you're into doing a little modding, you could take a 600 RMK or Summit and do basically the same things (narrow, lower handlebars, cut down seat, modify controls for smaller hands) for the same money and have a sled that's just as easy to ride but can handle deep snow and have some chance of keeping up with the pack once the rider builds enough skill.
@summ8rmk I've never rode a Freestyle, but they're an intriguing sled. I'm not sure why they didn't catch on; maybe they're one that was only really appreciated once it was gone. I hear good used ones are very much in demand. It was more of a paired down sled than the NEO or EVO, and it actually has a better power-weight ratio than either of those!
@summ8rmk I've never rode a Freestyle, but they're an intriguing sled. I'm not sure why they didn't catch on; maybe they're one that was only really appreciated once it was gone. I hear good used ones are very much in demand. It was more of a paired down sled than the NEO or EVO, and it actually has a better power-weight ratio than either of those!
C
I’ve got a Summit Neo + ordered for my 14 year old daughter, but I’ve also got a 2018 RMK 600 144 that she has been riding. It’s just a bit too big in terms of dimensions and it is not easy to sidehill for a small person. My main hope is the narrow front on the Neo will be better for a small rider who wants to learn mtn skills. But your comment really has me thinking.
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I don't have kids, but my guess is your daughter will find the NEO easier to ride. I'm not sure how much difference the ergonomics will make for sidehilling, but it can't hurt. Maybe it'll do better than I think despite the HP deficit, but it has half the power. I'd consider holding onto to the RMK if you can. She'll probably end up wanting to ride it instead once she's grown and gotten more experienced. I'm sure there are threads detailing the kind of mods I have in mind: it's not rocket science, but there's not much available off-the-shelf for the parts you'd need. Some EVO parts might fit though. The NEO will probably be a good sled for trail riding and light off-trail, but my guess is anybody hoping to work up to more aggressive or technical riding is going to hit a power wall pretty quickly. Obviously, turning a new riding loose on a full-power sled is asking for trouble, but it'd be so easy to offer selectable power levels, and the only reason not to is to drive more sales down the road.
C
Thanks, and yeah we will definitely hold on to the RMK 600. Maybe a Khaos conversion on the front of it would make it easier to tip over, but maybe the Neo will be the solution, we shall see.
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SD gave up early on the Freestyle. Demand was just slow to take off, and EPA certs pushed the motors out of existence. They were hugely functional for kids and less experienced riders, needed some restyling and an improved front suspension. I owned two for many miles, a 300 and 550 Park. GREAT learner sleds for kids, and I had fun, too. The 300 was a hoot on the trails, like riding a 70 Elan. The 550 got around fine in 12" or less, jetted and clutched, even at +8k feet. Sold both when the kids were ready for full size for what I paid for them - had six sleds at the time and ran out of room and maintenance time. Should have kept the 300. Sharing my lesson for the young guys who are buying now.
Ever since we first got the ride the Blast/Venom I've talked about higher HP for my kids to grow into. 40hp is similar to a twin carbed 340/370/380 of yesteryear. 55hp is identical to a twin carbed 440 fan.
I think Doo is really close, 55hp de-tune and a ECM flash for 85hp would jump them to the front of the youth sled movement.
My daughter(15) loves her Mtn Venom but hates the lack of power. She rode a SBA 600 for the past two years and although she couldn't utilize all the power(unless drag racing) she misses the extra grunt of the 600. Chassis-wise, she loves the Alpha, if I can just get it into the 80+hp range, then it's a homerun.
I think Doo is really close, 55hp de-tune and a ECM flash for 85hp would jump them to the front of the youth sled movement.
My daughter(15) loves her Mtn Venom but hates the lack of power. She rode a SBA 600 for the past two years and although she couldn't utilize all the power(unless drag racing) she misses the extra grunt of the 600. Chassis-wise, she loves the Alpha, if I can just get it into the 80+hp range, then it's a homerun.
Reeb, i thought you were going to go big bore on your venom? I was hoping you would try it first so I knew if it was worth the coin! My 10yo son only rode a couple days out west with me but did freaking awesome on it. He can throw it around really well but the lack of power is going to really be a big problem next year.
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That was absolutely the plan, however a lack of parts and lead time kept that from happening. I only know of 3-4 that have gotten bigbored and only one of those is a true consumer(not racer or sponsored rider). I can fill you in on more details privately, it's not my place to say publically I don't think.
So here is my take on the NEO.
Parts of what they are offering are really encouraging because it starts to seem like maybe they are kinda figuring out what these Tweens need, but then it can be super discouraging where they are so close and they just swing and miss.
Here is a bit of what I wish Ski-Doo would have done. They are so close.
First, start with the standard NEO. That thing is 404 pounds and has a 14" wide track. AWESOME!!! Put the Camso Freeride on there with 1.5" lugs. Now, take that awesome 34" ski stance that the Summit Neos have. Imagine, a sled that is 404 pounds with electric start, has a 14X121 track, and a 34" ski stance. Now we are really talking about a sled that even a very small person can get up on edge and really learn how to ride the right way.
Now here is the final real kicker. It absolutely destroys me that Ski-Doo is using this 600 engine capable of 85 HP and they intentionally handicap it and make it very difficult to get the power back. At elevation, we are already handicapped for power by thin air. Then to make matters worse, we are trying to push tracks with big lugs through deep, often heavy powder up somewhat steep hills. I understand that I don't want to give a 9 year old a really fast sled from a safety perspective. But I wish that the manufacturers would understand that out west, up high in the mountains, the proper way to give a kid a safe sled is to gear it down, not to power it down. By all means, please give it a gearing ratio that won't even let it get over 45 mph. I have no problem with that. In fact I would love it, because it would help the bottom end so much. Please, stop powering down, and start gearing down for these Tween sleds.
Last but not least, this is particularly frustrating coming from Bombardier. Many of us have ridden and owned Sea Doos, which for the last 15 years at least have had the technology of having a "learner key" as part of the DESS. So even if some folks to want to power down their NEO - please do it by means of DESS and the learner key. Please don't do it by means of robbing the engine of power in a way that is super difficult to get back.
Right now, the market on the freestyles, especially the 300 model, from 15 years ago remains elevated to almost ridiculous levels. Why? Because there still isn't a sled out there that can even touch it for what it does. It is unquestionably the best sled for a kid to jump to right after the kid gets bored with his snoscoot. It has a 121" track 15" wide and has a 32" ski stance and a dry weight of 370 pounds for the non-electric start version. It remains untouched on those specs as the easiest sled, bigger than a snoscoot, for a kid to get on edge and learn to powder turn, sidehill etc. Had Ski-Doo built the sled I outline above, the value of those Freestyles would have immediately plummeted from ridiculously high levels to the levels of an obsoleted old sled. Unfortunately they didn't, and the freestyle 300s will continue selling for close to the same value as their original MSRP, or maybe even more as has been recently the case.
So close Ski-Doo. So close. They had all the right parts. They just didn't quite put them together in the right package for those of us out here in the West with a kid who has learned good basics and fundamentals on a snoscoot and doesn't want to take a step backwards as he goes up to the next size sled.
Parts of what they are offering are really encouraging because it starts to seem like maybe they are kinda figuring out what these Tweens need, but then it can be super discouraging where they are so close and they just swing and miss.
Here is a bit of what I wish Ski-Doo would have done. They are so close.
First, start with the standard NEO. That thing is 404 pounds and has a 14" wide track. AWESOME!!! Put the Camso Freeride on there with 1.5" lugs. Now, take that awesome 34" ski stance that the Summit Neos have. Imagine, a sled that is 404 pounds with electric start, has a 14X121 track, and a 34" ski stance. Now we are really talking about a sled that even a very small person can get up on edge and really learn how to ride the right way.
Now here is the final real kicker. It absolutely destroys me that Ski-Doo is using this 600 engine capable of 85 HP and they intentionally handicap it and make it very difficult to get the power back. At elevation, we are already handicapped for power by thin air. Then to make matters worse, we are trying to push tracks with big lugs through deep, often heavy powder up somewhat steep hills. I understand that I don't want to give a 9 year old a really fast sled from a safety perspective. But I wish that the manufacturers would understand that out west, up high in the mountains, the proper way to give a kid a safe sled is to gear it down, not to power it down. By all means, please give it a gearing ratio that won't even let it get over 45 mph. I have no problem with that. In fact I would love it, because it would help the bottom end so much. Please, stop powering down, and start gearing down for these Tween sleds.
Last but not least, this is particularly frustrating coming from Bombardier. Many of us have ridden and owned Sea Doos, which for the last 15 years at least have had the technology of having a "learner key" as part of the DESS. So even if some folks to want to power down their NEO - please do it by means of DESS and the learner key. Please don't do it by means of robbing the engine of power in a way that is super difficult to get back.
Right now, the market on the freestyles, especially the 300 model, from 15 years ago remains elevated to almost ridiculous levels. Why? Because there still isn't a sled out there that can even touch it for what it does. It is unquestionably the best sled for a kid to jump to right after the kid gets bored with his snoscoot. It has a 121" track 15" wide and has a 32" ski stance and a dry weight of 370 pounds for the non-electric start version. It remains untouched on those specs as the easiest sled, bigger than a snoscoot, for a kid to get on edge and learn to powder turn, sidehill etc. Had Ski-Doo built the sled I outline above, the value of those Freestyles would have immediately plummeted from ridiculously high levels to the levels of an obsoleted old sled. Unfortunately they didn't, and the freestyle 300s will continue selling for close to the same value as their original MSRP, or maybe even more as has been recently the case.
So close Ski-Doo. So close. They had all the right parts. They just didn't quite put them together in the right package for those of us out here in the West with a kid who has learned good basics and fundamentals on a snoscoot and doesn't want to take a step backwards as he goes up to the next size sled.
For the Mtn version I’d like to see it stretched to a 141/146 with 18/50 gearing. I’m completely in agreement with you, leave the hp numbers alone, gear down and put a learner key on it. That way my 9yo can be comfortable on it, and so could my 15yo.
I think you’re onto something here bud!
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C
Do we know that Ski-Doo didn’t get gearing right? For clarity, I agree with what you say about power, but would be good news if they got the clutching right.
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I personally see a place for both track lengths. Especially if they actually did the right thing with the engine of giving it all the power and then giving it a 40 HP learner key.
When my kid is 9 years old, still like 60 pounds, and has learned to get the snoscoot on edge, but now is getting bored with the lack of power on the scoot, then, with the kid that small, I really think the 121 by 14 track will help the tiny kid transition those skills he has learned to a bigger sled and still have a chance at getting this thing up on edge. And for a little while, I would only give him the 40 HP learner key.
But then, once he is 10 or 11 and is about 70-80 pounds and has a year or two of experience on the 121 x 14, then he is definitely ready to move up to a 141/6 x 15 track.
I have a freestyle 300 with the 121 track. Just a touch of paddle on it and the thing really can get through some pretty deep snow, even with the short track. And the short track really helps the smaller kids control it better.
I suppose we can hope right?
Agreed there. I learned how to ride mountains on a 91 440 Prowler. Learned how to jump and sidehill and descent hills without brakes on that sled.
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