Anybody know why your only suposed to run 30% race gas on a new BD turbo install? Im having trouble figuring that out and wondered if any of you turbo guys knew the skinny on that?
Thanks
Thanks
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30% only race gas on bd turbo breakin?
- Thread starter sledwolf
- Start date
Not enough info as to which kit you are talking about. I would guess the race fuel is insurance in a pump gas kit against detonation/preignition while you get it all dialed in. Just my .02. If you are running a race gas kit w/high boost, you should be running 100% race fuel.
Not enough info as to which kit you are talking about. I would guess the race fuel is insurance in a pump gas kit against detonation/preignition while you get it all dialed in. Just my .02. If you are running a race gas kit w/high boost, you should be running 100% race fuel.
No, this is an intercooled kit and it says not to mix more than 30% race gas. I would think 100% race gas would be better but thats not what i think im hearing in the destructions. I ran 100% in my 2010 kit with no problems but i didnt get the memo in time. This year id like to understand the theroy.
K
Kestrel2126
Well-known member
I believe the reason that they want you to run 30% to start, is in essence, a break in period. Mainly for the waste gate actuator spring. When new, the spring takes a while to soften up, so you may think you're running 6 PSI, but the gate may not open until, say 9 PSI. If you don't have good enough fuel, you could easily get Det. Once you get the first tank through, in theory, you will have things dialed in, and can make sure everything is set up correctly and holding together. After that, you can crank up the boost and go!
As far as what fuel to run the rest of the time, that is a highly debated topic. I will give my experience, but take it with a grain of salt. Personally, I can definitely tell the effect of "overoctaning" my sled. Too much octane, and the bottom end is lazy and bogs. I run 10-13'K with 10-14 PSI of boost. granted I am pretty high in elevation, but that is also a lot of boost. Even so, I find my sled doing very well, and having no signs of Detonation or other ill effects from fuel, with a mix of 75% 100LL and 25% Premium (91) pump gas. I will also say that I used to argue the same as jcrjet, and run straight 113 race fuel. After reading up and listening to a lot of people with a lot more technical experience than myself, I began testing different fuels and mixes. All I would say is, decide for yourself, and maybe look into some of the threads regarding this topic.
As far as what fuel to run the rest of the time, that is a highly debated topic. I will give my experience, but take it with a grain of salt. Personally, I can definitely tell the effect of "overoctaning" my sled. Too much octane, and the bottom end is lazy and bogs. I run 10-13'K with 10-14 PSI of boost. granted I am pretty high in elevation, but that is also a lot of boost. Even so, I find my sled doing very well, and having no signs of Detonation or other ill effects from fuel, with a mix of 75% 100LL and 25% Premium (91) pump gas. I will also say that I used to argue the same as jcrjet, and run straight 113 race fuel. After reading up and listening to a lot of people with a lot more technical experience than myself, I began testing different fuels and mixes. All I would say is, decide for yourself, and maybe look into some of the threads regarding this topic.
Great topic, I should be getting mine by mid-week
I am going with the non-intercooled BD Turbo and will have it in the trailer Wednesday. Was thinking a few gallons for my official "break-in" and then wean down as I can. Planning on running 6-6.5psi tops.
Thoughts?
I am going with the non-intercooled BD Turbo and will have it in the trailer Wednesday. Was thinking a few gallons for my official "break-in" and then wean down as I can. Planning on running 6-6.5psi tops.
Thoughts?
I believe the reason that they want you to run 30% to start, is in essence, a break in period. Mainly for the waste gate actuator spring. When new, the spring takes a while to soften up, so you may think you're running 6 PSI, but the gate may not open until, say 9 PSI. If you don't have good enough fuel, you could easily get Det. Once you get the first tank through, in theory, you will have things dialed in, and can make sure everything is set up correctly and holding together. After that, you can crank up the boost and go!
As far as what fuel to run the rest of the time, that is a highly debated topic. I will give my experience, but take it with a grain of salt. Personally, I can definitely tell the effect of "overoctaning" my sled. Too much octane, and the bottom end is lazy and bogs. I run 10-13'K with 10-14 PSI of boost. granted I am pretty high in elevation, but that is also a lot of boost. Even so, I find my sled doing very well, and having no signs of Detonation or other ill effects from fuel, with a mix of 75% 100LL and 25% Premium (91) pump gas. I will also say that I used to argue the same as jcrjet, and run straight 113 race fuel. After reading up and listening to a lot of people with a lot more technical experience than myself, I began testing different fuels and mixes. All I would say is, decide for yourself, and maybe look into some of the threads regarding this topic.
Great info, thank you. I tend to agree with what you say. Im strongly considering the av gas route mixed 50/50 premium. I run the same alt but 8.5 to 11 psi on boost.
Thanks
I am going with the non-intercooled BD Turbo and will have it in the trailer Wednesday. Was thinking a few gallons for my official "break-in" and then wean down as I can. Planning on running 6-6.5psi tops.
Thoughts?
I ran the same setup in 2010 on a dragon. It ran sweet but 6psi didnt cut it. I was scared to turn it up but when i finally got up around 8 the sled was awsome. run 50/50 and youll be fine at the highier boost. Depending on your alt you may get away with premuim.
K
Kestrel2126
Well-known member
I am going with the non-intercooled BD Turbo and will have it in the trailer Wednesday. Was thinking a few gallons for my official "break-in" and then wean down as I can. Planning on running 6-6.5psi tops.
Thoughts?
A very big factor here is what elevation you will be running at. For instance, at 10K' for me 6 PSI of boost would be roughly equivalent to running 1 PSI of boost at sea level. The reason being that your atmospheric pressure at 10K' is just shy of 15 PSI where at sea level, it is 10 PSI. This basically means, that at 5 PSI of boost, I am basically putting the sled back to stock HP, as all advertised HP #'s are based off Sea Level conditions. So, wherever you are going to be riding will play a great deal in what kind of fuel you will need to run at the boost you want to run at. It will also greatly change how much power the sled makes. 6 PSI at sea level would be a rocket, whereas for me, not so much. For arguments sake, lets say you're running the same elevation as me (call it 10K'). At 6 - 6.5 PSI boost, I would put money on you being able to run straight 91 octane pump gas. Possibly a gallon per tank of Av gas if you are worried. A couple things to consider however, 1, make sure you have the right chip in (ethanol/non-ethanol), and 2, I would suggest getting the timing module from BD. If you are running primarily gas station "pump" gas, the 3* timing retarder module, will keep your motor running better and more safely, for the inconsistent fuel that comes out of most pumps.
Still wondering why they recomend to only run 30% rather than 100% race fuel. What would be the detrement in straight race gas on a new turbo? I cant figure that one out???? It clearly states in the instructions not to run race gas straight??
T
theshadowrider
Well-known member
To much octane at higher elevations causes ruff idling and sluggish low end. It seems almost like its to rich, making tuning it hard. I experienced this on my TD8 so I am guessing its the same for the pro. It only happened above 8000'. Just a guess though!
To much octane at higher elevations causes ruff idling and sluggish low end. It seems almost like its to rich, making tuning it hard. I experienced this on my TD8 so I am guessing its the same for the pro. It only happened above 8000'. Just a guess though!
That makes sense. I can see why that might cause havock with a new build.
timing key and EBC with TPS should assist with elevation??
Great points with the changes in elevation. Isn't this why BD came out with the EBC? I am going to run a 2012 BD non-intercooled Turbo kit. Should have it in the am!!!!!!!!!!! From what I can understand, the EBC makes those adjustments for elevation. So, if I run 6psi at 8k' it will automatically adjust and I will be running an equivalent 6psi at 10-12k' and so on. Am I understanding this right?
Thinking at least some AV gas for every ride.
Thanks for the explanation
Great points with the changes in elevation. Isn't this why BD came out with the EBC? I am going to run a 2012 BD non-intercooled Turbo kit. Should have it in the am!!!!!!!!!!! From what I can understand, the EBC makes those adjustments for elevation. So, if I run 6psi at 8k' it will automatically adjust and I will be running an equivalent 6psi at 10-12k' and so on. Am I understanding this right?
Thinking at least some AV gas for every ride.
Thanks for the explanation
A very big factor here is what elevation you will be running at. For instance, at 10K' for me 6 PSI of boost would be roughly equivalent to running 1 PSI of boost at sea level. The reason being that your atmospheric pressure at 10K' is just shy of 15 PSI where at sea level, it is 10 PSI. This basically means, that at 5 PSI of boost, I am basically putting the sled back to stock HP, as all advertised HP #'s are based off Sea Level conditions. So, wherever you are going to be riding will play a great deal in what kind of fuel you will need to run at the boost you want to run at. It will also greatly change how much power the sled makes. 6 PSI at sea level would be a rocket, whereas for me, not so much. For arguments sake, lets say you're running the same elevation as me (call it 10K'). At 6 - 6.5 PSI boost, I would put money on you being able to run straight 91 octane pump gas. Possibly a gallon per tank of Av gas if you are worried. A couple things to consider however, 1, make sure you have the right chip in (ethanol/non-ethanol), and 2, I would suggest getting the timing module from BD. If you are running primarily gas station "pump" gas, the 3* timing retarder module, will keep your motor running better and more safely, for the inconsistent fuel that comes out of most pumps.
T
theshadowrider
Well-known member
Yes. If you turn Alt Comp off, then if you set 6 psi at 8000' and you ride up to 12000' then it will keep the boost at 6psi at 12000'. Whatever you set it stays there no matter what altitude/pressure you are at. This is the setting I run and prefer. Not to nit pick things but Kestrel2126has it little backwards. Standard day at sea level atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi. At 10,000 feet its 10.2psi. Pressure decrease by about 1/2 psi per 1000' of altitude. So, when you get your ebc, if you turn alt comp on and set your boost at 6 psi at 5,000, atmospheric pressure is approx. 12.3 psi at 5,000, and then your ride to 10,000, atmospheric pressure is now 10.2 you just lost 2.1 psi, which is 2.1 psi loss in hp. So the ebc just adds 2.1 psi to boost to compensate for the loss in pressure keeping HP close to the same so you will now see approx 8.1.Great points with the changes in elevation. Isn't this why BD came out with the EBC? I am going to run a 2012 BD non-intercooled Turbo kit. Should have it in the am!!!!!!!!!!! From what I can understand, the EBC makes those adjustments for elevation. So, if I run 6psi at 8k' it will automatically adjust and I will be running an equivalent 6psi at 10-12k' and so on. Am I understanding this right?
Thinking at least some AV gas for every ride.
Thanks for the explanation
Last edited:
Thanks for the info. I am a newbie to Turbo's
I will likely be asking a few questions as I go along.
Thanks a ton. Much appreciated.
I will likely be asking a few questions as I go along.
Thanks a ton. Much appreciated.
To much octane at higher elevations causes ruff idling and sluggish low end. It seems almost like its to rich, making tuning it hard. I experienced this on my TD8 so I am guessing its the same for the pro. It only happened above 8000'. Just a guess though!
X2, I tried starting out with staight 114 in my TD8 and couldn't get it tuned even at 3000' would dog out on top end. Weaned it out to 20% and it lit the fire, too much octane isn't always a good thing because it slows the burn down to much and causes a cold burn so to speak. Good luck!
30% race gas
I have an 08 800 dragon with the BD pg gas kit with the intercooler. They are probably saying 30% race gas because thats all you need. I have ran 2 gallons of c12 to a tank of premium at 11 psi boost with no problems. Last year I thought I would try straight av gas. It ran good. But it seemed lazy on the top end and seemed to make more heat quicker when at wot. I was constantly trying to adjust the bd box to compensate for the high egt's. After the season was over I had some av gas left over. I then burned it up in the harley. It confirmed what I thought about how it was running in the sled. This year I am switching back to premium and c12. The secret is you have to keep your full ratio the same for ease of tuning.
I have an 08 800 dragon with the BD pg gas kit with the intercooler. They are probably saying 30% race gas because thats all you need. I have ran 2 gallons of c12 to a tank of premium at 11 psi boost with no problems. Last year I thought I would try straight av gas. It ran good. But it seemed lazy on the top end and seemed to make more heat quicker when at wot. I was constantly trying to adjust the bd box to compensate for the high egt's. After the season was over I had some av gas left over. I then burned it up in the harley. It confirmed what I thought about how it was running in the sled. This year I am switching back to premium and c12. The secret is you have to keep your full ratio the same for ease of tuning.
Yes. If you turn Alt Comp off, then if you set 6 psi at 8000' and you ride up to 12000' then it will keep the boost at 6psi at 12000'. Whatever you set it stays there no matter what altitude/pressure you are at. This is the setting I run and prefer. Not to nit pick things but Kestrel2126has it little backwards. Standard day at sea level atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi. At 10,000 feet its 10.2psi. Pressure decrease by about 1/2 psi per 1000' of altitude. So, when you get your ebc, if you turn alt comp on and set your boost at 6 psi at 5,000, atmospheric pressure is approx. 12.3 psi at 5,000, and then your ride to 10,000, atmospheric pressure is now 10.2 you just lost 2.1 psi, which is 2.1 psi loss in hp. So the ebc just adds 2.1 psi to boost to compensate for the loss in pressure keeping HP close to the same so you will now see approx 8.1.
Very good points. I learned a thing or two reading your post. I set mine up at about 6,800' alt with 8.5 boost so as i understand you, when i get to 11K with the comp on its going to be pushing 12+. Probably more than i want. I think ill start at closer to 6.5 at 6,500' alt and go from there. Good posts keep them coming.
K
Kestrel2126
Well-known member
You are correct, I switched my atmospheric pressures. At sea level it is just shy of 15 PSI and at 10K" it is about 10 PSI. Sorry if I confused anyone. Got in a hurry with the typing. Good catch, and thanks for clarifying ShadowRider!Yes. If you turn Alt Comp off, then if you set 6 psi at 8000' and you ride up to 12000' then it will keep the boost at 6psi at 12000'. Whatever you set it stays there no matter what altitude/pressure you are at. This is the setting I run and prefer. Not to nit pick things but Kestrel2126has it little backwards. Standard day at sea level atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi. At 10,000 feet its 10.2psi. Pressure decrease by about 1/2 psi per 1000' of altitude. So, when you get your ebc, if you turn alt comp on and set your boost at 6 psi at 5,000, atmospheric pressure is approx. 12.3 psi at 5,000, and then your ride to 10,000, atmospheric pressure is now 10.2 you just lost 2.1 psi, which is 2.1 psi loss in hp. So the ebc just adds 2.1 psi to boost to compensate for the loss in pressure keeping HP close to the same so you will now see approx 8.1.
Sledwolf I am conservative like you but remember that BD is also conservative and their altitude compensator system just maintains your power level. So if you set it at 6 or 8 PSI at say 5000 feet at 10,000 feet the motor has no more stress on it or is making no more power than what you dialed in at your starting elevation. It just keeps your power level as consistent as possible while going up and down in elevation. Pretty cool feature of the BD kit.
Picked up 100 Octane and will throw 3gallons in
Picked up 100 Octane today and plan to run 3-4 gallons for my break in ride tomorrow.
I have the 2012 BD Non-Intercooled Turbo kit. I will be starting at 4.o psi on the EBC at the parking lot and adjust from there. I am still a bit confused about it's function/effect. So, basically, if I run 4.0 psi at 8k', the EBC will automatically adjust the boost to compensate for changes in elevation. Does this mean, I will in effect, always be running the equivalent to 4.0 lbs at all elevations. At optimal elevation, let's say 10.5k', is that more boost? So am I better leaving the boost lower and go from there?
Picked up 100 Octane today and plan to run 3-4 gallons for my break in ride tomorrow.
I have the 2012 BD Non-Intercooled Turbo kit. I will be starting at 4.o psi on the EBC at the parking lot and adjust from there. I am still a bit confused about it's function/effect. So, basically, if I run 4.0 psi at 8k', the EBC will automatically adjust the boost to compensate for changes in elevation. Does this mean, I will in effect, always be running the equivalent to 4.0 lbs at all elevations. At optimal elevation, let's say 10.5k', is that more boost? So am I better leaving the boost lower and go from there?
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