2018 Polaris predictions

[NorthMNSledder]

I would agree that low volume on a mid size sled would be an issue. I have asked for that and believe the first MFG to build one will own the market. The MFG are spending a lot of money protecting patent rights to block mid size imports from entering the US, and they don't even have a product that would compete with it. Yamaha and Cat are putting together joint ventures on other products, and if volume is the issue this could be an option to help all the MFG to grow the sport. Past history shows that affordable entry level sleds are possible (Indy Lite). If the mid size is so unobtainable there are other options. The current Polaris offering are tanks when compared to water-cooled 800 @ 408 pounds. Polaris has all the parts to build a 375 pound deep snow entry level sled with parts from the shelf. I don't understand how it would be so hard to offer this as a snow check only option. They are currently building to order with snow check so I know they could make this happen. Again the first MFG to offer this will own this market and pull other brand loyalist to their brand.

Ski-Doo tried that years ago with the Freestyle and it was a complete failure sales wise (according to Ski-Doo). I'm going off memory but I believe they had said it sold about 35% of predicted sales volume that they has estimated and was not a viable option for the market. The article said the same thing everyone here is saying. Their sales team thought it would be a killer market because no company was in it yet. Well there was a reason no company was in it......The volume is not there. I will look for this article as it was an interesting read.

Over the summer we picked up 2015 600 RMK 155 with only 700 miles for $5300 for a young friend just getting into the sport. Last season we took him out 3 times on a older REV 600 Summit 144 and it worked perfect to show them the sport. I believe those were close to 500 lbs and at no time did weight come into the conversation for a new rider. I just can't understand why you would spend that same money on a no options base sled when you can get a clean used one that has all the options (including elec. start) for the same or less money.

 

[89sandman]

A mid sized sled might not be a money maker but would help grow the sport. With 15k sleds and crappy snow years this sport is shrinking every year. Sometimes you need to look down the road instead of just at what is making you money today. Getting a whole family involved in sledding would be much more beneficial than just having dad get one.

 

[geo]

Ya but,,, how many people (old folk of course lol) have fond memories of "The Phazer" and what it did for the mountain folk in the way of smiles.
I'd be happy to pick up a new 360 lb fan with some suspension and quality parts instead of waiting for my Pro motor to blow up so I can build one. Best snow is from the parking lot to the "chalet" and that's where these little things shine.
By "shine" I mean grin factor.

The Freestyle was geared towards U-tubers because looks were more important than function. That was Doo's mistake.
If you're non racing dirt biker with a passion for the sport, you have the option of a 200 with everything the open bikes get. Most still pick an open bike and the growing list of "Midders" (300's) are available to those that are still worried about their size.
Thing is, the 200 will eat the opens in the trees. So, impressive pull on the parking lot hill or make a move and look ahead 3 trees while free-riding on the side hills.
That's a personal choice not available in sleds.

The Phazer is still a great sled to have around for newby introduction because until the Pro it was still the easiest sled to get unstuck. Big deal when introducing the sport and not wanting to get a hernia to spoil the day.
Sure it gets stuck easier if you take the wrong line. Sure it bounces more on the way up but that's the point. If your newby had a good time and is excited about coming again,,, you might have a keeper.
Way easier to make this analysis if they don't come out with you on a 174. Way less crap talk about how great the sled is at the trucks and way more fun talk about how you (not the sled) made it out of the creek ravine.

Not too many options if you want a new sled with "expert" tech today. You have to be rich and buy the flagship for cash or bend over with your trade and still buy the flagship.
Look to KTM or the other European brands to see success by filling every niche with a quality option.

 

[Beavis]

Man, I'd also love to see something new in that entry-level segment for an 8-12 y/o. A 120 is pointless IMO (especially for $3,000 new) unless you have private property. The local DNR here in Utah would have a ticket hay-day with any kid on one under 8 on public trails. Seems the market for those would be even smaller but at that price it's obvious they kill it on profit margin.

I have an aggressive 12y/o that graduated this year from a nice little '96 Phazer to a used 600 Pro we picked up. The Phazer was a good sled for him at that age because it was cheap, light, has electric start, and great hand warmers. Now that he's starting to sidehill and boondock more I wanted a good enough sled to know we can get out of a few more places. Besides, it's still mostly me that has to dig him out when he buries it. The lightweight Pro made the most sense but I still hold my breath having him learn/make mistakes on a 120hp, $5,000+ used sled at his age.

For his 8 y/o brother I'd take a scaled-down Pro with a narrower track/tunnel, 34-35" wide ski stance, and a 340 liquid. And I want to tune engine/throttle output with a programmer to his skills as he grows up. I want electric start, great hand-warmers, and a 144" x 2" track at 350lbs. And I want it for $3,995 or less. LOL

Call me, Polaris! I'll order 2 of them tomorrow!

 

[skiwiz]

my 2 cents

If Camso can build a skid with one rail , could this be adaptive for a snomobile

 

[Bushwacker1]

Yes the used pros are coming down in price. Yes a new adult rider could get started on a used 600 and not kill them selves if they are sensible. I was looking to buy sleds for my kids when I realized the 120 was useless in more than 5" of snow. They were riding it when they were 4 years old. Yes they were not ready for off trail them but when they got to big to put them in front of me and my wife to go off trail it was time to put them on their own sled and there was nothing available. My son is on a 1990 Indy lite that works great off trail in the spring time. He started riding that at age 8. At age 11 I put my daughter on a 1997 Indy trail (530Lbs) and watched her miss a corner into the woods due to spring morning hard pack and carbide grab that she could not over power due to the weight of the sled. Mabey she was riding over her skill level but I believe a lighter sled would have made a difference. I decided that that sled was too heavy for her to handle and bought her an Indy light and she is much more comfortable on that. It is not overpowered for her skill level. I wanted to scream every time I have been told to just put my kids on 120 hp pro 600 by dealers when I ask them to forward my request for a new version of the Indy lite with a long track. As for the freestyle failure, was this a complete exclusive design or did all the parts come off the shelf? Big difference in costs there. If they overbuilt freestyles on speculation the idea to build to snow check orders only would solve that problem. Yes they would need to make some shorter rails and purchase some cobra 141 tracks or stick with the 144 tracks they currently use, make some narrow front end parts for this sled and also offer them as accessories to compete with all the after market ones out there that folks are buying for their RMK, Install the light weight axis parts off the shelf and call it an adventure pro axis RMK snow check special. Sign me up for two of them. Polaris don't wait too long though my kids wont stay 11 and 13 forever.

 

[Reg2view]

Freestyle was a rev from the bulkhead back, same skid, tunnel, new seat and tank. Only front was different, single a-arm. New plastics. Old CV Tech clutching. 550 fanner was their piston reed used everywhere, the 300 air cooled was just an update on an ancient piston port design. It's all about volume. No one could call them beautiful, a few might try cute. But functional, without a doubt. It was a modern day Elan, for those that remember it, complete with a SS model (twin cylinder fan). What is needed is a modern day equivalent of the late 70's Olympic, with another twin, in a better all around package.


Like it or not, if BRP or Poo could come up with a trail-legal snowbike, they'd be better positioned for the male entry level millennial. ACAT will probably get there first, but they'll screw it up...

 

[Scott]

A mid sized sled might not be a money maker but would help grow the sport. With 15k sleds and crappy snow years this sport is shrinking every year. Sometimes you need to look down the road instead of just at what is making you money today. Getting a whole family involved in sledding would be much more beneficial than just having dad get one.

You mean someone needs to have a more broad vision to help continue to grow the industry?


Even though such a sled might be a small seller, it will be more likely to yield sales to future adult riders.


Prime the pump....

 

[I.P.Yellow]

I agree that one or more of the manufacturers need to look at the mid-level segment to help grow the sport. Doo tried it with the Freestyle but it wasn't a great seller and I believe that the looks of the machine is what possibility kept it from being a hit. I actually own one and I don't think I'd ever sell it since it has all the functionality of a full size sled in just a smaller package.
I bought mine as a 2 year holdover in 2008. I offered the dealer $2400 and he took my offer. I know that I could get close to that price if I sold the machine today so that tells me that there is definitely a demand for this type of sled.
I bought my Freestyle for my kids but they don't drive it anymore since they like to drive the 600 since the 300 in the Freestyle tops out at about 45 mph. I actually like riding it just to tool around the lakes and hills in our area since it is very light and fun to ride.

 

[89sandman]

Yes it was one of the ugliest sleds ever made. Hint to manufacturers, if you want to sell something make it appealing to your customers

 

[mountainhorse]

It would be interesting to see if 2018 brought out Polaris' skinny sled.... what I called the XTD-Xtreme Terrain Dominator in this thread a while back.
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375882

05-11-2014

I'd like to see Polaris make a more specialized sled.

What I'd like to see

With the hardcore boondocking styles of Entz, Gardiner, Adams, Darcy, Phatty and Burandt etc ...and the evolution of a strong segment of the mountain riders into that style... I could see a new Boondocking specific machine emerging in addition to offering other more traditional "AXYS" mountain.

I'd call it the "Xtreme Terrain Dominator - RMK " [ XTD-RMK ] .... a radical departure from the norm.

This is what, I believe, would sell to this "New Xtreme Mountain Rider"

An XTD-RMK would NOT be very trail friendly... which is OK because of the other mountain offerings for those that prefer that style of riding.

This sled would be able to get on edge easily, stay there as long as you want, and be lighter from the narrower design... target 375lbs dry.


What I could see in an XTD-RMK ...

• 800 HO power-plant (narrower engine overall) that sits low in the chassis for a low CG and low Rotating mass.
• New, shorter Primary clutch and recoil, to aid in keeping the engine "package" as narrow as possible.
• 12-13" wide, 163" track, with a crowned "rocker" 2.8" lug design [Center lug is taller than the outer lug... OR a continuous paddle from edge to edge in an arc shape)
• Track with taller internal drive lugs for better driver engagement and less ratcheting ... to work with...
• Single Combo Driver(extro/intro)... no more 3-driver system... and still keeps the rail tips close to the Driveshaft as Polaris engineers like it.
• Rear suspension with narrow distance-between-rails (lighter and works with new track)
• Lighter rails with a more cut-out "truss" design.
• Hollow Rear axle with single nut for tightening.
• Float shocks that allow rider to tailor the ride character quickly on the hill
• Smooth aluminum drop brackets that don't collect ice (like an aluminum version of the Dragon bracket)
• Coated parts to shed snow better.
• Further-evolved QuickDrive ... extruded driveshaft without collar
• Brake on Driveshaft
• Narrow Tunnel, tank and seat allows more body "English" without hop-over for steep terrain control and less effort.
• Lower seat.
• New tank design that would allow more of the fuel mass to be carried fwd (like RUSH design)
• Pressure cast Upper A-arm with a true ball-joint rather than rod end.
• New narrower bodywork to keep from "Paneling out"
• 35" stance
• Evolution of Gripper ski to hold sidehills better and not fold like current design.
• Redesigned bulkhead to work with lower mounting position of engine and narrow tunnel/track
• Foot pockets that will extend further fwd. and give the rider foot position options on steep terrain.
• Overall taller chassis design with 2" longer spindles and 2" lower driveshaft, while keeping tank and saddle low as possible.
• LED lighting
• GPS MFD
• Built in "glovebox" for warming goggles/gloves
• Strong bumper standard to deal with Xtreme Terrain obstacles

Put the backcountry "Young-Guns" on this sled and watch all hell break loose!

.

 

[d1100t]

Skinny sled

Mountainhorse.
Kinda sound like the skinny sled in the member sled build section

 

[mountainhorse]

Yep... He did an awesome job with it too !


.

 

[revrider07]

I see Polaris gaining a ton of market share with a solid sled. And the others manufactures dropping the ball. In 08 Polaris did not have a solid package. M series was strong from cat then but there sleds are outdated and new would unproven. I'm predicting a record year in sales for axys in 2018.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPBmuA_gEzw/


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[Scott]

I gotta say, the 600RMK 155 in the Axys platform is unreal.
My 87lbs 13 year old spent the day on it yesterday.
Go ride one and report back in here.

 

[AKrider]

Ski-Doo tried that years ago with the Freestyle and it was a complete failure sales wise (according to Ski-Doo). I'm going off memory but I believe they had said it sold about 35% of predicted sales volume that they has estimated and was not a viable option for the market. The article said the same thing everyone here is saying. Their sales team thought it would be a killer market because no company was in it yet. Well there was a reason no company was in it......The volume is not there. I will look for this article as it was an interesting read.

Over the summer we picked up 2015 600 RMK 155 with only 700 miles for $5300 for a young friend just getting into the sport. Last season we took him out 3 times on a older REV 600 Summit 144 and it worked perfect to show them the sport. I believe those were close to 500 lbs and at no time did weight come into the conversation for a new rider. I just can't understand why you would spend that same money on a no options base sled when you can get a clean used one that has all the options (including elec. start) for the same or less money.

The issue for me with the Freestyle was initially the small engine, then they fixed that with the 550. But the part I couldn't get over was the single a-arm front suspension. It was a cheap design that doesn't ride or handle as well as a double a-arms. Also, the Freestyle was ugly as sin. That didn't help draw me into the dealership either.

Some OEM needs to come out with a smaller sized sled because the used market can't continue to provide sleds for kids. I got my kids a pair of used Indy Lites so I'm covered but heck, my sons is now 17 yr old sled. Seems like an OEM could just make a smaller sled that is light weight, offers excellent floatation and comes with a simple and cheap fan cooled 2 stroke. Offer another version of the same sled as a utility model for trappers. Basically an updated 1984 Phazer or a reborn, strut equipped Tundra 2. I'm thinking light weight and a small size being the main focus and also don't ask more than $5-6,000.