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2010-13 YZ450F vs 2014+ YZ Dedicated Snow Bike

I'm looking to set up a second backup/guest bike without spending $20k. There seems to be a ton of 2010-2013 YZ's out there for dirt cheap, no pun intended. Many of the changes Yamaha made in 14 were for the dirt which I don't really care about. What I am looking to find out is how would a 10-13 work as a dedicated snow bike compared to a 14 or newer. I know the 14 makes a bit more hp but the 13 and older bikes make better power down low which may be an advantage for snow biking, not so much for MX unless you want to be the hole shot king.

Input?

M5
 
My last YZ was in 05 so don't have a thing to add on your YZ year in question issue, but I am in the same boat on building a loaner bike and the only thing that keeps crossing my mind is Electric start. I don't really mind kicking a bike over as the electric start on my CR500 didn't really work all year but having to start up 2 bikes would suck. I have a couple more CR500's and I could turn one into my loaner snow bike but I am afraid without a good electric starter I will be kicking 2 bikes to life any time we stop. My 05 YZ was my last attempt at a 4 stroke and I didn't like it. I have been considering a KTM or one of the Japanese bikes with electric start like a WR450...but I don't really know anything about them and they all seem like more maintenance than just draining a quart of cheap tractor hydraulic fluid out of my case after a ride and then refilling it before I leave. I don't have this one figured out yet so I am curious what your end decision will be. I may end up with a 500 as a loaner.
 
The thing about the 10-13 YZ is the fuel injection, I think they fire up pretty fast. As for the 500, I still love how mine rips and I have no plans to sell it but if we are being honest its not everyone's cup of tea. My buddy rides a WR which would not be my first choice. He's done quite a bit to it and it runs well but I think the YZ is a better option kicker and all. I cant see myself ever going back to wide ratio bike and even though this a back up/loaner I will be riding it.

M5
 
I'm looking to set up a second backup/guest bike without spending $20k. There seems to be a ton of 2010-2013 YZ's out there for dirt cheap, no pun intended. Many of the changes Yamaha made in 14 were for the dirt which I don't really care about. What I am looking to find out is how would a 10-13 work as a dedicated snow bike compared to a 14 or newer. I know the 14 makes a bit more hp but the 13 and older bikes make better power down low which may be an advantage for snow biking, not so much for MX unless you want to be the hole shot king.

Input?

M5

Just buy mine, less than half of $20k, like new and I'll just come ride your "loaner" bike a few times a year! Seems like a win win since I don't seem to have time to ride....

Seriously, even though I don't have any basis for comparison, haven't ever ridden anyone elses sno bike, I have no issues with my 2011 YZ450. It runs spot on, appears to have good power (not sure 55 vs 57 vs 58 hp is much different, they all could use a 20-40 hp kick in the @ss anyway).

It's only been on the snow, original owner claimed a half dozen rides from new. I've put on another 15 or so full day rides on it, 2-3 tanks of gas per ride. Never even a hiccup. Added a Tbob stat which helps a bunch with fueling and need an engine cover. I like the simple front intake. Just a prefilter over the cage for the foam (foam removed) and a couple M sled frog skins over the front intake ports on the radiator shrouds make for no snow injestion even on snorkel days.
Rear exhaust works well for a sno bike. No chance of burning your pants.
Overall cant go wrong I think.
 
Ive only ridden twice but the first was a 17 450RMX with a 137 TS LE and an 08 or 09 YZ450( carb) w/ TS120 RAW and I much preferred the YZ. except for the kick start. I think the difference is the close ratio trans and that bike was just more comfortable for me.

elec start would obviously make a better choice for a back up /loaner IMO since many people struggle with the kicker. I don't have that problem being 6'5 helps in that department. I did shred my boots though.
 
Id stick with the reverse engine. Lends itself to a better intake setup imo. I also think the F is the money. Kicker is no biggy on these 450's. If my 13 year old can kick it then anyone can kick it. PR2 ecu is a must imo !
 
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So I spent some time on an FX with a Camso kit this week and the one thing that stood out with it was that with the pod style intake up front I couldn't believe how fricken loud they are even with my earplugs in. I'm re-thinking this whole YZ thing. I'm not sure I could ride that day in and day out. I've already done lots of hearing damage through work so I'm not keen on losing any more. Is there any way to quiet it down without killing it?

M5
 
I run Toby Till's pod set up that doesn't protrude out the top. It doesn't seem too bad noise wise. It does clog occasionally but it's rare. I've had to clean the snow out maybe half a dozen times this year and we've had 600 inches.
What bothers me the most is the exhaust noise of the four strokes. I'm going to fabricate a piece that points down i think.
 
Well I pulled the trigger on a really clean 2011 YZ450. It has 24.5 dirt hours on the clock which I know to be the true run time. These bikes can be had for 40 cents on the dollar now compared to the new ones. The thing that pushed me over the edge on the 10-13 was I stumbled onto a shop clearing out new GYTR 2010-2013 CNC ported heads from Yamaha. These heads come with new race cams installed and fully shimmed ready to bolt on and CNC ported. This shop bought all the remaining heads from Yamaha and blew them out. My buddy and I bought the last two they had for you guessed it 40 cents on the dollar. There's lots of data showing the 10-13 making HP into the 60's with the head and an exhaust plus they fill in the bottom end quite a bit as well.

While it would be nice to have a 14-17 YZ I just couldn't justify the added expense. One of the chief complaints from MX'ers was the 10-13 was loose and light in the front end. There are several kits out there to move the engine forward but for snow biking I think the lightness may be an advantage maybe providing less ski pressure. The pigtail pipe will eliminate ruining any more sets of pants as well as I've completely burned the crap out of two sets on my 500.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do for a kit I'll wait and see what turns up. I don't think this setup will be king of the mountain but hopefully its a solid performer.


M5
 
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Nice one. You gonna ride it on the dirt at all this summer?

As a matter of fact I am. That is due to the fact that my Thumper Racing KTM 520 went down again which is what moved up the YZ purchase.

I was going to start a Thumper Racing thread but I just decided to reduce my stress and let it go. I called Travis then sent him an email which he has chosen to ignore. In a nutshell here is what happened.

I sent my motor to TR to be rebuilt as a 520 a few years back to the tune of $2200. At the time I told Travis I was building a snow bike and he assured me he had lots of snow bike motors out there and this was going to be the bomb. It didn't even last one season before the con rod went out in less than 40 hours. I sent it back and they rebuilt it again at a discounted price of $1k. less than 20 hours of DIRT ONLY runtime later the motor has cratered again. This time I tore the motor down myself because I now have the time. What I found was TR originally installed a 7mm wide crank seal where KTM calls for the 4.5mm wide seal on my year of bike. The boss that the seal rides in on the case half measures 5.7mm tight to the main crank bearing, that's with no clearance to the bearing. The 7mm seal cracked apart because it was unsupported on the outer surface or they crushed it to get it in there flush with the boss in the first place. Bits of it went through the motor taking the oil pump gears with it and subsequently the rockers, piston, con rod and finally it dropped a valve.

I talked with Travis and he claims its not his fault and that they use that seal in all their motors, well I'm telling you right now there is now there is no fawking way that seal can fit into an 08 XC4 motor. The 08 has unique crank, case halves and seals.

The oil jets were plugged with rubber seal bits so all bets are off as to how long a con rod will last. Once the single sump conversion was done it allowed material to go where ever it wants without necessarily going through the screens or filter. I found $hit everywhere in fact the oil filter was spotless no material in it.

You can tell by the bits of seal material that it had been spinning in the boss for some time. The larger pieces were still between the freewheel and the case on the crank. KTM calls for Loctite on the seal, no Loctite. How they didn't catch it on the second rebuild flat out baffles me. Every time I call them there is some personal drama or other going on down there so I never got the feeling anyone was doing a good job vs just trying to get it out the door.

Long story short, those guys are hacks so save your money don't big bore and don't ever let those idiots touch your motor. I gave them the chance to do the right thing here but they have chosen to ignore me. Buyer beware.

The pics are of the seal pieces as they came out, that didn't happen overnight and of the case half. The last pic, although kind of blurry is of a 4.5mm seal as spec'd by KTM. It just fits in there.

M5

DSCN3381.jpg DSCN3383.jpg DSCN3385.jpg DSCN3384.jpg DSCN3386.jpg
 
As a matter of fact I am. That is due to the fact that my Thumper Racing KTM 520 went down again which is what moved up the YZ purchase.

I was going to start a Thumper Racing thread but I just decided to reduce my stress and let it go. I called Travis then sent him an email which he has chosen to ignore. In a nutshell here is what happened.

I sent my motor to TR to be rebuilt as a 520 a few years back to the tune of $2200. At the time I told Travis I was building a snow bike and he assured me he had lots of snow bike motors out there and this was going to be the bomb. It didn't even last one season before the con rod went out in less than 40 hours. I sent it back and they rebuilt it again at a discounted price of $1k. less than 20 hours of DIRT ONLY runtime later the motor has cratered again. This time I tore the motor down myself because I now have the time. What I found was TR originally installed a 7mm wide crank seal where KTM calls for the 4.5mm wide seal on my year of bike. The boss that the seal rides in on the case half measures 5.7mm tight to the main crank bearing, that's with no clearance to the bearing. The 7mm seal cracked apart because it was unsupported on the outer surface or they crushed it to get it in there flush with the boss in the first place. Bits of it went through the motor taking the oil pump gears with it and subsequently the rockers, piston, con rod and finally it dropped a valve.

I talked with Travis and he claims its not his fault and that they use that seal in all their motors, well I'm telling you right now there is now there is no fawking way that seal can fit into an 08 XC4 motor. The 08 has unique crank, case halves and seals.

The oil jets were plugged with rubber seal bits so all bets are off as to how long a con rod will last. Once the single sump conversion was done it allowed material to go where ever it wants without necessarily going through the screens or filter. I found $hit everywhere in fact the oil filter was spotless no material in it.

You can tell by the bits of seal material that it had been spinning in the boss for some time. The larger pieces were still between the freewheel and the case on the crank. KTM calls for Loctite on the seal, no Loctite. How they didn't catch it on the second rebuild flat out baffles me. Every time I call them there is some personal drama or other going on down there so I never got the feeling anyone was doing a good job vs just trying to get it out the door.

Long story short, those guys are hacks so save your money don't big bore and don't ever let those idiots touch your motor. I gave them the chance to do the right thing here but they have chosen to ignore me. Buyer beware.

The pics are of the seal pieces as they came out, that didn't happen overnight and of the case half. The last pic, although kind of blurry is of a 4.5mm seal as spec'd by KTM. It just fits in there.

M5
I have to say.... My 2008 KTM 530 which had the full rebuild by Travis at thumper racing (also a xc4) was rock solid to the tune of 90 hard hours when I sold it.

My current 570 had a few hiccups, and although they were not Travis's fault, he covered the expenses anyhow.

I've had a great go on two different bikes with them.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
The fact Travis hasnt stepped up on this is beyond me. He used a seal that was not correct and caused a catastrophic failure of this engine. 20 hours on dirt the way this bike is ridden should of never happened. Thumper Racing should be ashamed of themselves ! Id have this posted on every forum and social media site if that is how he does business ! Pathetic

M5 i would start posting up all those pics to FB, Instagram, and all thumper forums ! Dont let that asshat get away with shody ****ty work ! He shouldnt be building motors for money if he doesnt know what he is doing !
 
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Just saying, I thought this thread was about yz 450s??? Thumper racing has a good rep in that scene. I have always heard that big bore 450s are trouble. Best of luck with everything. Personally I'm going back to 2 Strokes from snowbike.
 
You are right this thread is about the YZ and I will return to that topic but since question was asked as to why I'll be riding a full blown MX bike in the woods this season I thought I would answer.

I always liked Travis when I talked to him and he seems like a decent guy but bottom line is he or someone who works for him fawked up on day 1 of my build. 2 complete engine failures in less than 60 hours of ride time is BS.

Travis told me on the phone ten days ago now that they always install the updated seal in all their bikes but on the other hand he left the original KTM 4.5mm seal on the other side of the crank when he did the first build and the second time as well. If this 7mm seal was so great why not do both while you are in there, what to save 10 bucks on parts on a $3200 worth of engine work plus almost $500 in shipping, c'mon really that's your plan. It states right in the KTM assembly manual that the seals need to be loctited into the case half which also wasn't done. I know there was another guy working on my motor the second time because he sent me emails as to the status of it. I wish I had kept them. Travis had something going with knees or whatever seemingly as usual.

A lot of time has passed on this bike since I had the work done but it didn't get ridden much in 2015 or in 2016 it has less than 20 hours since they rebuilt it the second time all of which was basically trail/fire road type of riding.

M5
 
So back to business.

I'm going to get started on the YZ build. Its going to get all the usual stuff, Tbob, engine blanket, yada yada plus the GYTR CNC ported head and race cams I bought. I have a deal in place for some free dyno time so I'm going to build some custom maps for the motor/heads/cam combination. I may eventually go the PR2 route but I'm going to see what I can do with the tuner at least to start with.

Looking back in this thread there is some mention of air box solutions, I'm just wondering from guys who have owned the 10-13 YZ what the consensus is on the final solution for air intake so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I want to have the air box modded prior to the dyno tuning session.

M5
 
M5,
I had a 13 with a timbersled kit, good bike great power and fun to ride. My bike always started great cold but it would wear you out kicking once it was warmed up. It may have been just been mine but you may need to play with the fueling to get it to start better warm. I got so frustrated with mine I bought an electric start bike.
 
So back to business.

I'm going to get started on the YZ build. Its going to get all the usual stuff, Tbob, engine blanket, yada yada plus the GYTR CNC ported head and race cams I bought. I have a deal in place for some free dyno time so I'm going to build some custom maps for the motor/heads/cam combination. I may eventually go the PR2 route but I'm going to see what I can do with the tuner at least to start with.

Looking back in this thread there is some mention of air box solutions, I'm just wondering from guys who have owned the 10-13 YZ what the consensus is on the final solution for air intake so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I want to have the air box modded prior to the dyno tuning session.

M5

I have a 2011 YZ 450, bought it setup as a snowbike. Had the typical cage and prefilter over the intake in lieu of foam. The 2 front intakes on the front of the radiator guards scooped up snow something fierce.
(Not sure how the prev owner dealt with this but by the condition I don’t think he rode it at all really. He claimed 6 rides but.... so maybe he never got er bars deep anywhere)
I simply took an extra set of M sled nose cone frog skins (the little triangle ones that go on the very front of the cowl) and applied them over the front “scoops “ on the YZ. Works perfect. For a stock bike anyway. I was worried about restriction but always runs great never injests snow or plugs up. Others I’ve seen block off the front scoops and put a couple round prefilter in the sides of the intake tract.
 
I've got a 2013 and I pulled the foam filter, added a FilterSkin over the stock cage, and the put more of the mesh material over the shroud scoops. I had a hell of a time adhering the mesh to the plastic, so I ended up just riveting the material. A little ghetto but it worked like a champ all last year!
 
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