2007 m 1000 blown for second time 45 minutes after rebuild

[deaner.6]

i had taken my old cylenders in to a performance shop where i believed they were re-nickacilled and he provided me with spx pistons. i checked the ring end gap and had .025" but the rings fit tight into the piston grooves. i put it to gether anyways. i let it run for 15 minutes to seat the pistons and then let it cool for a couple hours. later on in the day i took it for a test drive and it would seem to run fine for the first 30 seconds and then just die. after i did that i let it cool and tried it again and it died again but i could start it right after like nothing was wrong. so i parked it and let it cool i tried it again it ran fine for a minute but then died and was very hard to pull over like it was partialy siezed. i have an air to fuel ratio gage on it and it said it was running at about 13 with a bit into the throttle at the time it stalled. i pulled everything apart again to find the pistons sides totaly scratched up and destroyed as well as grooves in the cylender walls, the new plugs were a charcol color. i did let the sled warm up for 5 to 10 minutes.
I was wondering if anyone new what could have possibly happened for it to blow up the second time?

 

[Rye23]

anti-freez?? Head gasket problem?? just a thought if what your saying is true or oil-pump failure

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

Why did it seize the first time? Sounds like your oil pump is not working. I would think at idle it would run for a while without oil but any throttle and it would lock up without lube

 

[markoo]

You answered your own question. The rings fit tight on the piston but you put it together anyways. I would say that is the problem. Wrong rings or wrong pistons

 

[mountain_tamer]

I agree with markoo if something doesnt seem to fit right dont put it together anyways

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

Still why did it blow the first time?

 

[Ryan31]

My guess would be oil pump, with no oil the tight fitting rings would have heated up super fast with the extra friction. Again just a thought.

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

ttt

 

[d&mraceengines]

i would defanatley make sure the oil pump is working and when i put a new engine together i always mix 50 to 1 for the frist tank of fuel to makf sure it gets enough oil on break in and you should know by the oil consumption if it is oilling like it used to also i have used spi pistons alot and i know that they measure .0005 bigger than the stock cat piston and they recomend three complete warm up and cool down sesions which might make a diffrence in how the pistons swell when under load just my .02 cents

 

[justindacey]

Did you bleed the coolant after you put it back together? It sounds like you have an air lock. Also, you should have 0.010"-0.010" ring-end gap. What was the piston skirt clearance? Are the pistons scored all the way around like a 4-point seizure? Post a picture of your pistons...

 

[deaner.6]

ya the oiler was working the head was covered in oil again, i had cleaned it before i put it back together and there was coolant in it i had filled it and as it ran i kept filling it. and the one piston on the pto side was a 4 point siez the other piston was scuffed pretty bad as well. when i took it apart there was coolant right to the top of the head i put the same amount back into it that came out. it siezed before from it being to lean and the edge of the piston started melting away the spark plugs were green as well.

 

[thekrust]

The piston rings are beveled and only fit the piston one way! If they are tight flip them over and they will fit freely. With the rings installed up side down I'm surprised it ran as long as it did. If you look very closely there is a mark on the ring near the gap... that goes up.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I did the exact same thing on my 07 M1000

I did this exact same thing on my 07 M1000. Burned it down with about 1200 miles. Dealer did a full top end rebuild at the end of the season. First ride out I made it about 30-40 minutes. I let the sled warm up and the whole thing.

Here is what I found out. The piston to cylinder clearance was tight. If you look back they were having the exact same problem with the HCR 800's. So Arctic Cat told the dealers that the MUST follow a specific warm up procedure on the very first run of the sled with the jugs and pistons.

So when I got my sled back I followed this procedure and so far so good.

What you needed to do was on a track stand start the sled. Run it just fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. Run it until the temp light comes on then one more minute. Shut it down and let it cool until cold.

The thought is the pistons need to go through some slight annealing process and will expand slowly this way. And once heated and cooled they will expand at a more constant rate and with the cylinders.

Bottom line I think if you don't do this the top of the piston stays cool because of the fuel, but the skirts expand to fast and stick. Kind of like a cold seize.

Again do some looking and talk to a couple AC dealers and they can explain the proper warm up/breaking for the HCR motors.

I mic'd the new cylinders and the new pistons from arctic cat and they were both on the bottom end of the tolerance. So the cylinder was on the small end and the piston on the big end. Thus little clearance.


I know a couple local dealers here got to the point they did this warm up on every sled they sold just to prevent this rapid expansion on the first run. They couldn't count on the customer doing it. It stopped the 4 corner seize on new/rebuilds.

Good luck

Thunder

 

[clarkee75]

I did this exact same thing on my 07 M1000. Burned it down with about 1200 miles. Dealer did a full top end rebuild at the end of the season. First ride out I made it about 30-40 minutes. I let the sled warm up and the whole thing.

Here is what I found out. The piston to cylinder clearance was tight. If you look back they were having the exact same problem with the HCR 800's. So Arctic Cat told the dealers that the MUST follow a specific warm up procedure on the very first run of the sled with the jugs and pistons.

So when I got my sled back I followed this procedure and so far so good.

What you needed to do was on a track stand start the sled. Run it just fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. Run it until the temp light comes on then one more minute. Shut it down and let it cool until cold.

The thought is the pistons need to go through some slight annealing process and will expand slowly this way. And once heated and cooled they will expand at a more constant rate and with the cylinders.

Bottom line I think if you don't do this the top of the piston stays cool because of the fuel, but the skirts expand to fast and stick. Kind of like a cold seize.

Again do some looking and talk to a couple AC dealers and they can explain the proper warm up/breaking for the HCR motors.

I mic'd the new cylinders and the new pistons from arctic cat and they were both on the bottom end of the tolerance. So the cylinder was on the small end and the piston on the big end. Thus little clearance.


I know a couple local dealers here got to the point they did this warm up on every sled they sold just to prevent this rapid expansion on the first run. They couldn't count on the customer doing it. It stopped the 4 corner seize on new/rebuilds.

Good luck

Thunder

Good Call Thunder...My dealer did the exact same break in on my 09 M8 SP...Watched him do it accually...Painful to watch the sled over heat over and over but it works...havent had a stitch of trouble with mine knock on wood

 

[WyoBoy1000]

piston to skirt tolerance, and proper break in. Make sure there is no air in cooling system before break in. it help to lift the front of sled up to get air out of heat exchanger and then burb the system.

 

[73GOLIATH]

hi
i have had problems with after market pistons in cats before i would go with the stock pistons and becarfull of who you have renick the clyinders they may not be doing i corectley

also the break in they are talking about above works great with stock pistons

 

[89sandman]

i know when i do a top end i let them heat cycle at least 5-10 times before i take it out. what did the top of the pistons look like????

 

[tm8]

Are you sure you are not burning coolant? It sounds like that might be the case.

 

[RACINSTATION]

All good info above. My stab at this is......if pistons and cylinders have gouges in them rather than just scuffing you had some debris in the crankcase that came on up to play Metallica with the cylinders.

I have seen circlips or pieces of the piston from the previous failure in the bottom end and as they come up through they scratch cylinders and pistons.

If you have foreign material on the cylinders and/or pistons and don't have pieces missing from the new ones......it came from the last failure.

 

[Engine Pro 5x]

After an engine goes through a melt down I have taken the lower end assembly out of the sled and hung it upside down with the jugs off in my wash bay. Then took the solvent flush gun to it. Amazing the chunks and crud that comes out. I do agree with rings fitting too tight and if you run into a situation that you would question like the rings stop and correct it. With the slick finish on the cylinders and the pressure back type rings these engines use the engine should turn effortlessly upon reassembly. And too much dirt and friction will kill an engine in a quick hurry. It's really hard to analyze your problems looking at a computer screen but there is a lot of good info posted above. And remember the quote from a wize old mechanic "Never Enough Time To Do It Right But Always Enough Time To Do It Over" So good luck and I hope you get your problem worked out >>>>.