2006 F7 turbo....HAVING ISSUES!!! anybody out there done it with success??

[mentlsled]

put a turbo kit in my 2006 F7 last year,ive melted it down a couple times trying to figure it out,im starting to make progress,im thinking my problem all thhis time was a cracked intake boot(pipe) its always ran like crap for me in the mid range,then when the boost would come in(5psi) it would run real hard and before i could lift my thumb off the throttle it would go from 11.3 to over 13 A/F and melt a hole down,i was thinking maybe the fuel pump couldnt keep up with what the regulater was asking for so i installed a cutler high flow fuel pump,put it on the dyno and it made 202hp flawlessly and held 11.0-11.4 A/F....i figured the problem was gone.....went out a few weeks ago and it ran like **** in in the mid range and ran hard when the boost came on but started creeping in A/F and later that day it ran real bad and eventually wouldnt even make any boost,found out when i got home that the intake boot(rubber pipe) was split wide open,im wondering if ive had a cracked pipe all along that just got bigger or if im overlooking something that is causeing the A/F to creep up on me................ heres a breakdown of the sled..... 2006 EFI F7 comp oiless turbo billet wheel set to 5psi,NO intercooler,attitide industries controller,cutler regulater,cutler fuel pump,also wanted to add that i just installed a muffler,wasnt running one during these problems...can no muffler causing very little backpressure cause any of this,havent been out yet with the new muffler....thanks

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

muffler/no muffler isnt an issues.

go through the whole thing and pressure test, seal turbo inlet to downpipe outlet and add pressure, you should be able to hold 10psi+ with very slow leakdown. you obviously are having major issues with this so get it all figured out, tuning otherwise is a joke.

also, 11-11.4 wot is borderline missfiring rich on most 2 strokes. make sure you have apporopriate octane and shoot for up around 12.5-12.8 as if your tuned that rich and amount of restriction near your pipe(snow, etc) will cause it to bog out and struggle.

You will not burn a sled down at 13:1 unless maybe on a long WOT pull, you have issues with your system that you need to figure out before you even try and asses your tuning.

 

[mentlsled]

forgot to mention i run Attitude industries octane boost with 91 octane fuel...should put me at about 101 octane if the additive does its job,also im at sea level with no intercooler

 

[mentlsled]

turbo F7

here are a few pics

 

[mentlsled]

muffler/no muffler isnt an issues.

go through the whole thing and pressure test, seal turbo inlet to downpipe outlet and add pressure, you should be able to hold 10psi+ with very slow leakdown. you obviously are having major issues with this so get it all figured out, tuning otherwise is a joke.

also, 11-11.4 wot is borderline missfiring rich on most 2 strokes. make sure you have apporopriate octane and shoot for up around 12.5-12.8 as if your tuned that rich and amount of restriction near your pipe(snow, etc) will cause it to bog out and struggle.

You will not burn a sled down at 13:1 unless maybe on a long WOT pull, you have issues with your system that you need to figure out before you even try and asses your tuning.

do you know if the high flow fuel pump was a wate of time at 5psi,should i put the stock pump back in it,only worried about the extra demand on the electrical system to run the high flow pump,i know the F7's had a very crappy electrical output??????

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

stock pump should be fine for only 5psi, not demanding a whole lot extra.

also, the F, like the M7's didnt have a crappy electrical, it was just all AC, so nothing to run pumps, gauges etc, causing issues with stuff.

if you think your running out of fuel, two things to check, the attitude controller is setup (99% certain) to display injector duty cycle on the leds as your riding, so if your leaning out on a pull and all 8 LEDS are lit up, might mean your maxing them out, which could be possible at that elevation. also, put your fuel pressure gauge up where you can see it, see if its fading out WOT, sign the pump cant keep up.

 

[mentlsled]

ive never seen all 8 led's lite up during boost so i guess injector duty cycle is ok.......... does the attitude controller show you what percentage they are running at,ive never asked derek about that??

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

the 8 leds are broken up as duty cycle, its pretty rough as its 12% per light displayed, BUT, if not all are lit up then you have fuel available. so you dont need the pump as your not maxing out the injectors and i know the stock pump can keep up with the stock injectors.

 

[TurboM700]

do you know if the high flow fuel pump was a wate of time at 5psi,should i put the stock pump back in it,only worried about the extra demand on the electrical system to run the high flow pump,i know the F7's had a very crappy electrical output??????

Yes it was a waste stock m/f7 fuel pumps are good for 8-9 pounds with a single injector set-up.

The 700 motor have an OK at best electrical system. The more electrical items you add the weirder the issues become. I have seen with a scope the injectors go wide open for no reason beside electrical noise when on boost.

You can combat this a few ways one his try unhooking your headlight(s).

I would also try and get ride of the huge "cold air intake" that might be causing to much a restriction.

Like other have said pressure test your system and see where there are leaks.

Since no one has asked what is your exact set-up

Turbo Size.
Fuel system 2 or 4 injectors?
What reeds?
What oiling set-up?
What fuel pressure regualtor.

Clutching>

All these can help us figure out whats going on with your sled.

Mike

 

[TurboM700]

stock pump should be fine for only 5psi, not demanding a whole lot extra.

also, the F, like the M7's didnt have a crappy electrical, it was just all AC, so nothing to run pumps, gauges etc, causing issues with stuff.

if you think your running out of fuel, two things to check, the attitude controller is setup (99% certain) to display injector duty cycle on the leds as your riding, so if your leaning out on a pull and all 8 LEDS are lit up, might mean your maxing them out, which could be possible at that elevation. also, put your fuel pressure gauge up where you can see it, see if its fading out WOT, sign the pump cant keep up.

This part is wrong. They have DC as do all FI sleds with out batterys. They use DC to control the fuel pump. The issue comes when you install a larger amp draw pump the stock DC cant handle it and it will take it toll on the ECM. There are a few ways around this on these sleds but all of them over time with be hard on the ECM.

The AC side has just enough power to power the headlights and handle bar warms and not much else. If I just added a EGT gauge at idle it woulndt power it and that would draw less the .5amps. I would get around this by just keeping the handle bar warms off or unhooking a headlight.

 

[mentlsled]

Yes it was a waste stock m/f7 fuel pumps are good for 8-9 pounds with a single injector set-up.

The 700 motor have an OK at best electrical system. The more electrical items you add the weirder the issues become. I have seen with a scope the injectors go wide open for no reason beside electrical noise when on boost.

You can combat this a few ways one his try unhooking your headlight(s).

I would also try and get ride of the huge "cold air intake" that might be causing to much a restriction.

Like other have said pressure test your system and see where there are leaks.

Since no one has asked what is your exact set-up

Turbo Size.
Fuel system 2 or 4 injectors?
What reeds?
What oiling set-up?
What fuel pressure regualtor.

Clutching>

All these can help us figure out whats going on with your sled.

Mike

its a 2006 F7 EFI,comp turbo CT2...billet wheel,turbo is a triple ceramic sealed bearing,no oiling system required,5psi actuater,internal waste gate,cutler regulater,2 injectors(stock) i have base fuel pressure set at approx 44psi @ idle,i had the V-force reeds in it,just took them out and put the stock reeds back in,have not run it yet with the stock reeds,im at sea level here in Ontario Canada,my fuel pressure gauge is under the hood so i cant see it while im riding but i have to assume the fuel pressure is rising accordingly since i see my A/F go from 13 or 14 rite down to 11 as soon as my controller sees boost....if you need HP numbers it went on Ian Tomassis dyno in October and made 202HP and 135 torque @ 5psi on pump fuel(with attitude industries octane boost) with no issues,6 long pulls and the pistons look great but it broke up on the dyno until it seen boost,and those numbers where at approx 11.4 A/F

 

[mentlsled]

forgot to mention that ive installed a battery for my gauges and wired the sled to feed the battery DC....also wired the sled so that the pump is being fed also by the battery,so far ive been out about 3 times and spent a whole day riding and at the end of the day the battery is still fully charged so i think the electrical system is doing ok feeding the battery

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

if you wanna get rid of the battery you could drop a light and rectify the power to run your stuff. but sounds like your happy.

lean that beast out your WAYYYY to fat.

keep green/yellow/red middle of the road to start 4.5, adjust boost curve (green/blue) to where your hitting say 12.5 on full boost WOT and then dial in your zones for desired afr for given loads.

 

[mentlsled]

if you wanna get rid of the battery you could drop a light and rectify the power to run your stuff. but sounds like your happy.

lean that beast out your WAYYYY to fat.

keep green/yellow/red middle of the road to start 4.5, adjust boost curve (green/blue) to where your hitting say 12.5 on full boost WOT and then dial in your zones for desired afr for given loads.

in your opinion,do you think it should be run as lean as you guys up at higher elevation??? im @ sea level

 

[TurboM700]

You can help with Deto by running rich but with that PSI at seal level you should be fine on pump gas. I ran mine here(sea level) at 4psi on 91 oct and never had an issue.

I would be willing to bet alot of your issues are your v-force reeds. They dont last long on boost.

I tried a battery on mine and I didnt like it. It was only good when it was fully charged after that it would cause weird issues with the system. Special the fuel pump.

If it was me I would crank the boost setting all the way up. Go for a ride and see how it acts then slowly start lowering it. Let makes sure you can get this thing so rich it chokes it self out and that your not having a fuel controller issue.

 

[19jpc67]

Got a 03 firecat turbo.had the same problems your having.fuel pump is not big enough and the injectors will only handle about 12 lbs even with bigger fuel pump.put carbs on it and a big fuel pump ultra lite plane ac to dc rectifier and I run 15 lbs of boost all day long on 110 gas from a pump.throttle response is 10 times better the it has ever been. Joe

 

[boondocker97]

I am not experienced with turbos, but i did take notice of your intake tube in the photo. Are you using the stock rubber accordion from the hood to the intake tube? If so is there a possibility that it is sucking it partially closed under boost? I know that when they are in the stock location they are pretty flimsy when the hood is open, but when the hood is closed they compress together and are much more resistant to crushing or sucking in sideways. From what it looks like that tube will have a bend in it whether the hood is open on the dyno or closed when you are riding it. Just another thing to look at.

 

[mentlsled]

I am not experienced with turbos, but i did take notice of your intake tube in the photo. Are you using the stock rubber accordion from the hood to the intake tube? If so is there a possibility that it is sucking it partially closed under boost? I know that when they are in the stock location they are pretty flimsy when the hood is open, but when the hood is closed they compress together and are much more resistant to crushing or sucking in sideways. From what it looks like that tube will have a bend in it whether the hood is open on the dyno or closed when you are riding it. Just another thing to look at.

if thats ristricting the turbo it would go fat if anything not lean.....my problem is it melting down under boost..........it wouldnt make any boost if it was restricting the turbo....unless im missing something but pretty sure it can only go fat if there is an air restriction

 

[Duraslut]

202 hp at 5psi. Isn't that high for that low ov boost? Are u sure ur only making 5 psi?

 

[mentlsled]

yep....5 psi actuater and 5 psi showing on the gauge....your gonna make alot more power on 5psi @ sea level then you will 5000 feet up,and its a accurate dyno(Ian Tomassi's dyno) he stopped the pull @ 8000 but it didnt stop making HP,woulda made more,and those pulls where at 11.2-11.4 A/F im curious to see what it woulda made at the 12.0-12.5 that you guys are recommending