R
RMK7SledHead
Well-known member
Didn't say there was anything wrong with the advice. Just smiling because of who was passing it on. Is OT even still around?
2 Important Avy MYTHS! (As posted in General, but good for here)
- Thread starter Thunderstruck
- Start date
Didn't say there was anything wrong with the advice. Just smiling because of who was passing it on. Is OT even still around?
I thought that I was the only one who did this type of study. It sure helps to see the pictures, read the stories and reports so that one can recognize problems in real life.
M
MTdream
Well-known member
yeah first guys on scene were amazed at the fish flopping around....The people were just sitting there...and the Avy dropped with such incredible force it just blew out the lake....no one would have thought...
I have a lot of pics, but they are from the S&R crew, and not really stuff to show...it was a nasty scene...chunks of ice were HUGE....
M
MTdream
Well-known member
Here is the other Mythbuster #1
Canyon Creek last year....2 fatalities...Skier climbed to the top of Fiberglass hill and a Skier at the bottom of the hill...The skier on the top triggered the slide, and was taken, as well as the skier walking along the bottom was killed...two sledder witnessed this....
Dozens of people congregate at the base of Fiberglass hill to watch their sledder buddies or skiers...or sledders help skiers by giving them a tow back up...
tragedy for sure, but definitely a mistake of Myth #1....
Canyon Creek last year....2 fatalities...Skier climbed to the top of Fiberglass hill and a Skier at the bottom of the hill...The skier on the top triggered the slide, and was taken, as well as the skier walking along the bottom was killed...two sledder witnessed this....
Dozens of people congregate at the base of Fiberglass hill to watch their sledder buddies or skiers...or sledders help skiers by giving them a tow back up...
tragedy for sure, but definitely a mistake of Myth #1....
S
Spud
Well-known member
pics from that class Jim speaks about.
A BIG Thank You to Dale Gullett and the Friends of the GNFAC for this Awareness presentation. What better way to begin a year, and for Jim to come up with these examples for public info. Those posts MTdream have are spot on, should stay from away most any backcountry when Avy Conditions and daily reports tell you to do so. Thank You again!
A BIG Thank You to Dale Gullett and the Friends of the GNFAC for this Awareness presentation. What better way to begin a year, and for Jim to come up with these examples for public info. Those posts MTdream have are spot on, should stay from away most any backcountry when Avy Conditions and daily reports tell you to do so. Thank You again!
To all that care,
Thanks for the great comments and stories, I was going to mention the Whitefish avy (at the lake) this evening and I am glad someone did. Very amazing story.
We pulled into the lake bowl in Lincoln (Copper Creek) one time and a slide had come down and blown out the lake at the bottom of the Lake Bowl. Ice chunks the size of cars and tons of snow piled up RIGHT WHERE EVERYONE ALWAYS EATS LUNCH, AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LAKE!!!
And this year the MAIN BOWL in Copper Creek slid so huge that on a normal Saturday it would've killed EVERYONE who normally rides there. We made a special trip up there after we heard about it (Doc Nesbo and I, 2 weeks later) and we were in awe. EVERY TREE in the normal "lunch spot" was gone. It literally wiped out a flat area the size of a football field and then continued into the old growth forest!!! When the first guys came onto the scene the next day, one of them took pics and said he got sick to his stomach thinking what could have happened (the Main Bowl slid on a Wednesday, luckily, no human trigger).
Thanks for the great comments and stories, I was going to mention the Whitefish avy (at the lake) this evening and I am glad someone did. Very amazing story.
We pulled into the lake bowl in Lincoln (Copper Creek) one time and a slide had come down and blown out the lake at the bottom of the Lake Bowl. Ice chunks the size of cars and tons of snow piled up RIGHT WHERE EVERYONE ALWAYS EATS LUNCH, AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LAKE!!!
And this year the MAIN BOWL in Copper Creek slid so huge that on a normal Saturday it would've killed EVERYONE who normally rides there. We made a special trip up there after we heard about it (Doc Nesbo and I, 2 weeks later) and we were in awe. EVERY TREE in the normal "lunch spot" was gone. It literally wiped out a flat area the size of a football field and then continued into the old growth forest!!! When the first guys came onto the scene the next day, one of them took pics and said he got sick to his stomach thinking what could have happened (the Main Bowl slid on a Wednesday, luckily, no human trigger).
I would also like to thank DALE for his awesome class last Saturday in Lewistown! And thank you Kenny for having Dale at the show, it was another awesome learning experience!
For an even better experience, try to make it to one of the Avalanche Center's FIELD CLASSES, where they actually take you up and teach you right on the mountain!!! Nice!!!!
JIM
For an even better experience, try to make it to one of the Avalanche Center's FIELD CLASSES, where they actually take you up and teach you right on the mountain!!! Nice!!!!
JIM
S
Spud
Well-known member
no need to stir any sh!t, good info here so please don't ruin.
And there is an old rumor that a sled is IN the lake too. I saw some crummy foggy pics of that that didn't really show the ice and the lake but I remember Sabol saying that the ice on the far side of the lake LIFTED up when the avy landed on the ice.
About the Main Bowl this past year...it sure is different looking up there. It does look like a wasteland. It really was wiped out. The approach to climb the main bowl was much more gradual this year too. I was up there in April and it looked totally different. Jim, remember when we went up in Aug in about 2002 and we took all those pics? Remember how deep some of the pockets were and where the water was pooling up? That snow has to be 40 feet deep right there in April this past year. When you come up the ridge through the burn..there was no 'drop down' to the main bowl...you just went over to it level. It was weird.
L
live2ride
Moderator: Premium Member
Jim,
Thanks for the information, I do believe no matter who is telling the situation that most should listen. Many avy studies have be done, yet another story seems to arise almost yearly. I always hear, that hill has never slid!! I feel that there are enough people out riding and know so many good areas to ride, that if they have seen a hill slide then why not pass it on to others, it could save a life!!!
Thanks for the information, I do believe no matter who is telling the situation that most should listen. Many avy studies have be done, yet another story seems to arise almost yearly. I always hear, that hill has never slid!! I feel that there are enough people out riding and know so many good areas to ride, that if they have seen a hill slide then why not pass it on to others, it could save a life!!!
QUOTE]
You stopped bothering with the forums because you were called out many times after running your mouth.... need I remind you???
Jim Phelan...The victim??? What's next?? Pity parties in your honor?
Your knowledge of avys has been first hand.... what was that kids name???? That's why it's classic you are giving out advice... man up for once.
I here next week Billy Joel will be holding a seminar on safe driving techniques...
Liz Taylor will also be holding a group discussion on marriage...
QUOTE]
And I hear you're holding a seminar on how not to be an AZZHAT...
You stopped bothering with the forums because you were called out many times after running your mouth.... need I remind you???
Jim Phelan...The victim??? What's next?? Pity parties in your honor?
Your knowledge of avys has been first hand.... what was that kids name???? That's why it's classic you are giving out advice... man up for once.
I here next week Billy Joel will be holding a seminar on safe driving techniques...
Liz Taylor will also be holding a group discussion on marriage...
QUOTE]
And I hear you're holding a seminar on how not to be an AZZHAT...
D
Disco Dan Richter
Well-known member
I think my sleds highmarked pretty well actually. LOL
Good thread none the less.
Good thread none the less.
A
Adrenaline Revolution
Well-known member
He probably could, If he really wanted to but I think what you really meant to say (unsuccessfully by the way) is that Fordy would be holding a seminar on HOW TO be an azzhat...meaning that you think he would be an expert on the subject...or something, but you screwed it all up and now you're not funny.
Back to the regularly scheduled flaming...
I am not going to get into this personal pissing match going on. However, I think the point and purpose of this post IS important to everybody.
I worked Ski Patrol at a local ski resort and performed avalanche control every time is snowed. In the process we had many pre season classes, mandatory ongoing training and mandatory beacon drills and rescue drills. One thing I have learned is that the more you know the more careful and cautious you become. What I mean by that is rather than reading the current avy conditions and figuring that it is safe on a particular slope because the avy conditions are low to moderate(actually I believe most avalanche fatalities happen when conditions are moderate), you understand that conditions can vary from mountain to mountain and aspect to aspect and you begin to evaluate each area or hillside you ride instead of lumping them all into a group.
I know that even if avy conditions have gone from high down to low in an given area that if I am riding hills that have not had riders on them most the season or avied naturally that there is probably still a moderate risk on those slopes.
One of the biggest concerns I have with a lot of sledders is that they are really just starting to learn and be prepared for avalanches. I see way too many people buy probes and a beacon and go to one avy class and THINK they know all about avalanches and are now safe and prepared. Being prepared goes waaaaayy beyond that. It means practicing with those beacons a lot. It means going to multiple avy classes and more than just the basic free class offered in many areas (still really good idea). It means actually digging snow pits and evaluating the snow. How many of you have done this and performed stress tests? How many have noted all the different layers in their favorite riding area and determined which one are weak, and which ones are strong and are there any strong layers sitting on top of a weak layer?
I believe that most meadows are safe, however the examples listed below do point out not all are. History is a valuable teacher. You can often see where slides up to 30 years old or more have slid. You simply look for a line in the trees where there is new growth up against old growth. Where that line is, is where the largest slide has slid in how ever many years. They can and will go bigger so don't think you are safe by being just inside the old growth.
Also ravines and ditches pose numerous dangers. They can be terrain traps where if you trigger a small, normally survivable avalanche it can pile up very deep in the bottom and trap you under a lot of snow. Also larger avalanches from very high up on peaks that may not be visible from where you are may follow the ravine for miles and eventually flow out into a meadow or lake bed.
Overall it is important to always be aware of the terrain and conditions YOU are riding in. Take time to learn your equipment. Take the time to learn about the snow and study it, not just online, but in the field.
Most importantly, be safe and willing to ride it another day. The snow may be epic, but not worth losing a friend, family member or your life.
I worked Ski Patrol at a local ski resort and performed avalanche control every time is snowed. In the process we had many pre season classes, mandatory ongoing training and mandatory beacon drills and rescue drills. One thing I have learned is that the more you know the more careful and cautious you become. What I mean by that is rather than reading the current avy conditions and figuring that it is safe on a particular slope because the avy conditions are low to moderate(actually I believe most avalanche fatalities happen when conditions are moderate), you understand that conditions can vary from mountain to mountain and aspect to aspect and you begin to evaluate each area or hillside you ride instead of lumping them all into a group.
I know that even if avy conditions have gone from high down to low in an given area that if I am riding hills that have not had riders on them most the season or avied naturally that there is probably still a moderate risk on those slopes.
One of the biggest concerns I have with a lot of sledders is that they are really just starting to learn and be prepared for avalanches. I see way too many people buy probes and a beacon and go to one avy class and THINK they know all about avalanches and are now safe and prepared. Being prepared goes waaaaayy beyond that. It means practicing with those beacons a lot. It means going to multiple avy classes and more than just the basic free class offered in many areas (still really good idea). It means actually digging snow pits and evaluating the snow. How many of you have done this and performed stress tests? How many have noted all the different layers in their favorite riding area and determined which one are weak, and which ones are strong and are there any strong layers sitting on top of a weak layer?
I believe that most meadows are safe, however the examples listed below do point out not all are. History is a valuable teacher. You can often see where slides up to 30 years old or more have slid. You simply look for a line in the trees where there is new growth up against old growth. Where that line is, is where the largest slide has slid in how ever many years. They can and will go bigger so don't think you are safe by being just inside the old growth.
Also ravines and ditches pose numerous dangers. They can be terrain traps where if you trigger a small, normally survivable avalanche it can pile up very deep in the bottom and trap you under a lot of snow. Also larger avalanches from very high up on peaks that may not be visible from where you are may follow the ravine for miles and eventually flow out into a meadow or lake bed.
Overall it is important to always be aware of the terrain and conditions YOU are riding in. Take time to learn your equipment. Take the time to learn about the snow and study it, not just online, but in the field.
Most importantly, be safe and willing to ride it another day. The snow may be epic, but not worth losing a friend, family member or your life.
J
JustinB
Well-known member
Myth 1* i get! I have recently started buying avy gear and my dad always says your not good enough or we dont ride in areas you need that stuff so why buy it. My idea is always be prepared and never be caught un-prepared. Anyone willing to give avy advise should give it in my eyes.
No-one else has one.
I ALWAYS ride with a beacon. I have friends and customers who say "No-one else I ride with has one so mine would be worthless" B.S. I say. The next group that rides by may have one. I actually own 2 beacons because I want someone I ride with to have one no matter what. If I need to be found I don't want it to be a lost cause over a few hundred dollars!
I ALWAYS ride with a beacon. I have friends and customers who say "No-one else I ride with has one so mine would be worthless" B.S. I say. The next group that rides by may have one. I actually own 2 beacons because I want someone I ride with to have one no matter what. If I need to be found I don't want it to be a lost cause over a few hundred dollars!
D
Disco Dan Richter
Well-known member
Sometimes it is not about where you ride, but what you ride through, to get there.
S
Spud
Well-known member
with 15-40 inches in the past days we have the years 1st Bulletin.
http://m1e.net/c?74667537-fTItI0nhUFGBM@4677934-KwZLvHrTYMAw.
http://m1e.net/c?74667537-fTItI0nhUFGBM@4677934-KwZLvHrTYMAw.
And another thought
You take avy training and buy probes and shovels FOR YOUR FRIENDS, not yourself
Avy courses tell you how much you dont know
If you think about it, its pretty selfish to not carry equipment and learn to use it
You take avy training and buy probes and shovels FOR YOUR FRIENDS, not yourself
Avy courses tell you how much you dont know
If you think about it, its pretty selfish to not carry equipment and learn to use it
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