1m 600

[KMMAC]

Ok so getting closer to buying 2 sleds. Yeee Haw! Need to know how good the 1M 600 is. Looking at a couple of 04's. Low milers, I didn't realize they were power valve motors. Are they any good? Ya I know, could buy an M6 but, less of those that I've seen here or else where. On a TIGHT budget just to buy the 2 sleds will be taxing. Trying to get the wife out of house a little in the winter. Not that she's not active just would like to have her try something new.

 

[Idcatman3]

All the ones I've been around seem to run pretty good.

 

[Idcatman1]

600

I paid for Idcatman3's education so he can put the apostrophe in 'ones' when it doesn't need it!

There was another question about 1M 600 sleds a few days ago. I suggested then that the pistons need to be changed about every 2500 miles. Those engines and the Cat 580s have a nasty problem with locating pins for the piston rings falling out. It has also been said to grease the fitting on the speedometer drive adapter under the driven clutch often. That was another weak point on most Cats.

 

[KMMAC]

Thanks for the info,, Ya I sometimes suffer from an education problem! So, the one sled has been ridden very little, should I replace the pistons for good measure? It has around 500 mi. on it. My thought is with the age and long duration between rides, would this effect the pistons? Is there a cure for the locating pin problem? Will most likely stretch it to 156 and put a camo extreme on it can I just change out the rails or will I have to use a rail extension? Not a big fan of extensions.. Want a good stopping track under it, this will be the wife's first sled. Also figured 20 46 gearing will it fit the chain case? The case is the same as a 900 right? Oh ya,, Will I need to extend the tunnel or can I get away with just building a different snow flap mount?

 

[rdr99]

You will need to get a tunnel extension, new rails or extensions. 156 CE will be alot of track for a 600.

 

[Idcatman1]

The closest thing I have found to a cure for the piston problem is to use SPI pistons. Haven't had any trouble with any of them yet. I think I can still get them for a reasonable price if you are interested. I would probably change them all while you are at it.
I assume the 600s you are looking at are 144 tracks? I have a 1M with a 144 tunnel and a 153 track under it that just barely clears. Mine has a different rear bumper and a U cooler that doesn't stick down also. I bet with the stock rear bumper and cooler you would have track rubbing issues. I agree with rdr99 that a 156 would be a lot of track for a 600. I put a 151 on a 600 and hated it, went back to the 144.
Yes chaincases are all pretty much the same from 1992 up, at least dimension wise. There are some minor differences in brake mounts and mounting holes.

 

[KMMAC]

What better track is there for either the 144 or 151? Looking for a track that provides good down hill stopping power. I'm looking to buy one for the wife,, for myself am looking at a 1M 900 or Kingcat.

 

[bullfrog123]

IMHO... The ol' 600 1M 144" is a great solid sled for what it is... Wife and I still ride them. Mine are bone stock motor wise, have added vents, bar risers, board inserts, custom made gas racks, etc. We are on our 4th yr with these sleds and have never touched anything motor wise, (other than routine power valve cleanings/adjustments, chaincase/drivetrain maintenance, etc

Getting ready to do topend rebuilds to both of em' this yr, as they are at 3400miles each. May have to call on Idcatman1 for some tips and tricks

 

[KMMAC]

Bullfrog,, that's good to know. My wife has never ridden and it's been 10 long years since I have. Hope to sell her on the idea, she's a little apprehensive about the whole thing. Altough, we used to race gokarts together and she would get more jacked up than I would sometimes so would like to get her on a sled....

 

[Ultra]

I have three 04' 600's for the wife, daughter and her husband. None of them are real aggressive riders. One is a 162x2.25, one is a 153x2.25 and one is a 151x2 track. The 162 always does better than the other two, plus it's always the one to get picked first. The wife wants me to build another one, I just might. fyi

 

[MI1M600EFI]

I have four years of winters on a bone stock '04 1M600 EFI. It's been a great sled. I think it has about 3000 miles on it now, logged a lot of trail miles in the UP of Michigan, and probably 1500 or so miles of West Yellowstone and Pinedale, WY, mostly off trail. (300 miles in a week of riding is a good bit of off, right?)

Bought it in the fall of '05 when it was two years old, still new in the box. It dished a piston late that winter, after getting some bad fuel at a crappy station in the UP, and then figuring it was broken in and letting it just scream down the trail at 8000rpm and about 80mph. Was rebuilt under warranty, NTF. Been fine every since, but I'm more careful about where I fuel up now, and I don't run it that hard unless I'm climbing.

It has good power, and always keeps me just ahead of the rest of my group, but none of them are riding mountain sleds. My closest competition is a really aggressive rider on an 800HO with a 2" track (136) and I can keep up with him no problem now that I ride better. I think the little 1M is an excellent boondock sled. It's not too heavy, I like the bar height (I'm 5'11") and it always starts on the 2nd pull unless it's been sitting for weeks or more, then it takes three. The 1M chassis works in deep snow, and isn't as tippy as the newer sleds, which is good for new or timid riders. I think '04 was the best year for that chassis.

Compared to an M6, it's just a tad shy on HP, but only at the very top end. It is much torquier down low, and pulls a lot harder off the line. If you get in trouble on the 1M, you add throttle and it immediately pulls you out. On the M6, you get to wait while the RPM's build so it can make some torque and by then it's sometimes too late...

I think the piston ring pin problem was resolved when they went to the power valve 600. I haven't had any issues, nor has anyone I know with a APV 600. That said, I'm hopefully on my last year with it as my main sled... Going to look for an '09 M8 Sno Pro next year... I just want to go a little higher on the really impossible climbs.

Added some pics... The stuck is in about 2' of fresh powder over a week of snow, and I wouldn't have been stuck except that I hit the hill and couldn't see any contour, so I came off the throttle to turn out and it just stopped. Guess I was still going up...
Chris (I'm about 170lb in ride gear...)

 

[Idcatman1]

I wish it were so about the locating pin problem being fixed, but I have 6 ruined cylinders on my shelf from that problem. Power valve or not I would recommend replacing pistons at least every 2500 miles on the 600 Cats.

 

[KMMAC]

Ultra,,, thanks for input, which 162 track did you use? Not sure I would go 162. Also, what gears. I do think you could run a track that length with low enough gears... Did this to a 580, not as long of track 136" but, knew at that time if I had gone to a 156 that the sled would have turned it pretty easy. Knew a guy with a 95 ext that went 156 and for what the sled was he did real well. Mine was a 93 580z. Idacatman thanks again for info. ... I would definitely change the pistons before 2500 mi. Will be looking at cyls.,, I have a blue fiber optic light for that purpose!! The blue shows scratches real well. Sled only has around 500 miles on it. Looks new. What rails would I use to go to a 156? The other option would be to go 153 with the stiffer power claw. Would I need to change the drivers? Thanks to all for your help... Trying to make this as easy a transition as possible. She's new so good flotation in critical.

 

[Ultra]

KMMAC,
Floatation was exactly what I was looking for. Like mentioned above all three riders are not that aggressive, my daughter is the most aggressive but only weighs at about 120-130lbs.
My wife has been riding being for about 20 years but at times gets gun shy. She constantly powers to late, digs a hole, gets stuck then gets upset at herself, (along with me). Then repeat. By the end of the day her self confidence is in the mud.

She didn't want a 162 (at first) so that is one of the reasons why I put together the exact same sled with 3 different tracks. She could try them all and picked the one she wanted to ride whenever she wanted.

The 162 is an 05 KK chassis with a bunch of lightening on it. Everything under the hood is a stock 04 600 with a thing can. Had to change out the R pan half, dropped the rear suspension, used 8T 3.0P AR drivers with 19/46 gears and an arctic M1000 take off 162x2.25x15 extreme track, center ported. I think it was a 46t? biggest one that would fit in the case anyway. Fox floats, 2" steering riser, boss seat, simmons skis etc. I added hyperfax, removed the center suspension wheels and with the AR drivers I can run the track pretty loose. Been thinking about trying a bearcat 2ndary and maybe a 2.5 extreme.

She absolutely loves it. She can stop, pick her path and take off again in the deep. Stops on a dime on the steep stuff and runs straighter down the trail the anything she has ever ridden before. She won’t even look at the other two 600’s anymore and has been talking about converting another one.

The 600 pulls the 162 just fine. My wife is about 160lbs ( I will deny it) and has no problem with lack of power. My son is also 160 and aggressive, he has highmarked all three sleds repeatedly, the 162 always has 20-50’ on the other two

For an aggressive gal it may be to much track but my gal is conservative. After years of watching her style there was very little doubt in my mind what she needed. I had her try an M7-162 and she hated the rider forward chassis. It was my only option before I killed her!

I do agree on the pistons, should change them about 2000-2500 miles, cheap insurance.

 

[brahm]

I've got an 01 Mcat 600 efi 136, It's a great little sled, a lot of fun. It's stock around 2k miles and I haven't done much to it at all. It's fun to play with in the pow but you just need to be selective on where you stop, the lugs are big enough to keep moving and doing pow turns in most conditions. I really like the power range on it, for a older 600 it screams once you get the rpms up. She floats pretty good all things considered I never had any issues keeping up with the rest of the pack although breaking trail without a pre-packed place to stop can be a little fraustrating, but as long as you give yourself enough room to double back around or stop her on a downhill you'll be fine.

For the price I picked her up I had a blast riding it until I fixed the doo, and it's a great spare. I'm just in the process of cleaning her up a bit for my GF, adding some risers fixing the exhaust leak and a couple other minor things.

 

[KMMAC]

Ultra,, thanks again for the response. Was just talking awhile ago with the wife and trying to decide on what sled to get her, was thinking about two 900s because I know she won't want to go all the times I go ( fresh DEEP snow for instance). So was thinking of a second 900 for someone to ride who has offroad riding experience. But in reality know she would get stuck even more often than not with the extra power. My wife is also conservative and a little timid when it comes to trying something new. But,, as I stated earlier we raced karts for a few seasons at Monroe, Wa. in the winter and she was down right competitive! I think that after a few rides she would get the hang of it and do fine. She has a hard time with the $$$$ part of getting setup in this sport. She's starting to come around though. I haven't ridden in 10 years but when the snow is in your blood well you know! I think she to is worried she won't do well enough and get discouraged but I told her that I too will be learning to ride again to some extent. The memory is still there but getting in shape and riding a different chassis from what I did last will be somewhat of a learning curve as well. I also told her that in time and if she likes this sport that we can upgrade the power easily enough.

 

[natestead44]

have any of you guys had problems with the suspension nobs rubbing on the front idler wheel shaft. It is a bolt with aluminum spacers that run from one rail to the other. I have a 04' MC 600 efi and I just noticed the track was rubbing on those aluminum spacers. I go through hyfax too. Have any ideas as to what causes this?

 

[KMMAC]

Do you mean the cross brace at the front of the track? Two reasons for excessive hyfax wear is track too tight or low snow conditions. If you trail ride a lot with the 2" track on hard pack with the lack of soft snow to lube the hyfax, this will make them wear very fast, especially if you ride at high rates of speed. To fix the problem, buy ice scratchers and a set of extrovert drivers and a set of hyper fax hyfax ( those have a teflon insert) would just about eliminate the hyfax wear problem. Hope this helps. As far as the cross brace issue either add some small wheels to it or add an anti-stab kit to the front sides of the rails....

 

[natestead44]

yes i believe it is the first brace that goes across from rail to rail. I thought about putting extra idlers down the middle to eliminate the rubbing. Any recomendations as to what company to purchase them through?

 

[longtrack156]

Had a 156 under my old 98 PS for 8 years, loved it, much improved over the stock 136 for our conditions.