19 850 Turbo Cooling issue!

[Yeager74]

Ayee everybody. First post here.
I have a 2019 850 mod sled type build.
Vohk Rebuilt/Tuned. 153 miles on new topend. Boodocker sidekick intercooled high boost turbo. looks to be a 155 tunnel sled, iceage 174 rails and camoplast 3 in track. aftermarket running boards, i think they are bm fab. zrp billet front end. and lastly raptor kinetic shocks.
Pidd Gauge.
So i am running into a cooling issue with the 850.
It is getting to the point where it will enter shut down mode. it still reads the temp from engine cold, clear to the 200deg mark for shut down. I now know they switched to the new thermo. in the bottle ordeal, self bleeding air, and the whole ordeal. I replaced that with a new one. the lines on the right side of the bottle all would get warm. as well as the fluid inside the bottle. i heat cycled about 3 times with the cap on half way as recommended. making sure the level "cold" was never below the mark.
also got the temp sensor in case the jumper and that whole ordeal fails. now I feel it was still functional based on how it would start, show cold, and warm up.

Now, to also add, it looks like there was a black bulkhead cooler added. its located on the bottom of the pan. or is that a stock part? Help enlighten me.

Now I did come off of a 18 800 axys 163, and it had a head exchanger on the tunnel in the rear.
What did they do with them on the 19 850s?
there isnt one at all on the underside of the tunnel. at least not one with the fins. were they taken out you think to make clearance for the track in the front? I am new to the 850 and that sort of thing, and the turbo world. Just caught this thing on a decent deal, with a reputable build name behind it, just need to have someone explain a few things to me. and how the heat exchangers are supposed to look.

So sorry if I come off as a complete idiot, but I just want to be informed and under the correct idea here. Trying to get a idea before I just run it down to carl's cycle sales and get their opinion on it.

Thanks in advanced

 

[SUMMITREV]

The heat exchangers on the 850 are the same as your 800. Sounds like your 800 had a mtn tek cooler added to it. The cooler you say is in the pan sounds like boondockers new bulhead cooler. It sounds like you have a circulation issue. Normally would suggest thermostat but you said that is new. The polaris tunnel coolers are just about 4" wide on the outer most edges of the tunnel. Once temp gets to 110-120 the tunnel should start to feel warm. If not its either thermostat, water pump, or someone really screwed with coolant lines. How long does it take to get that hot?

 

[Yeager74]

The heat exchangers on the 850 are the same as your 800. Sounds like your 800 had a mtn tek cooler added to it. The cooler you say is in the pan sounds like boondockers new bulhead cooler. It sounds like you have a circulation issue. Normally would suggest thermostat but you said that is new. The polaris tunnel coolers are just about 4" wide on the outer most edges of the tunnel. Once temp gets to 110-120 the tunnel should start to feel warm. If not its either thermostat, water pump, or someone really screwed with coolant lines. How long does it take to get that hot?

Okay, so, that makes me think it has a air bleeding issue then with air in the tunnel heat exchangers. Waterlines all look where they should be.
It takes maybe 3-5 minutes of sitting there and high idle.
Yeah, everything else starts to feel warm but the tunnel does not. So, I think I have heard getting the sled set at a incline and running it. I am guessing there is a air bubble in the tunnel then prohibiting flow through the coolers.
Thanks for confirming that the tunnel cooler is the 4 in section that is smooth on the outer most edges of the tunnel.

 

[live2beel]

You said it was rebuilt. Wondering if someone left something in a coolant line? Get it warm with the front end as high as you can and leave the coolant cap off. The belly pan heat exchanger might be a innercooler

 

[Yeager74]

Vohk rebuilt it. I wouldn't thing they would have.
I think that may be the case for the water to air cooler for the air charge.
And yeah, I'll take a look today, see if I can get a bubble out of the crossover tube.

 

[Yeager74]

Yeah, so no change. moved the tank enough to get access to the tunnel hoses really well. removed and replaced temp sensor with the 2020 model one. just to be safe. got the sled on a incline on my sled deck ramp. left the cap off and ran it at high idle before clutch engagement,
sled started to get super hot, even started to fill the bottle back up. still tunnel and tunnel hoses were cold. opinions on the next step?
say screw it and let the dealer deal with it?
how often does a actual water pump go out? guy i bought it from said he rode it all last season no issues, this is a fluke ordeal.
should i just drain the bottle as much as possible? then take the cooler lines off the bottle and flush the lines? then end up attatching the bottom one that goes to the thermostat and then gradual refil the top line and the cooler? whats the best way to ensure air is not going or how to get air out of the tunnel cooler?

and just to reiterate, bottle is getting warm, and the two lines coming from the motor are as well. there is the small one running somewhere, i presume its to the brake, havent followed it. i wouldnt think that would cause this whole thing to be of an issue.

any other ideas? can we get some more chime in please if anyone knows someone.

and truly, thank you all for your replies, truly appreciate it.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Yeah, so no change. moved the tank enough to get access to the tunnel hoses really well. removed and replaced temp sensor with the 2020 model one. just to be safe. got the sled on a incline on my sled deck ramp. left the cap off and ran it at high idle before clutch engagement,
sled started to get super hot, even started to fill the bottle back up. still tunnel and tunnel hoses were cold. opinions on the next step?
say screw it and let the dealer deal with it?
how often does a actual water pump go out? guy i bought it from said he rode it all last season no issues, this is a fluke ordeal.
should i just drain the bottle as much as possible? then take the cooler lines off the bottle and flush the lines? then end up attatching the bottom one that goes to the thermostat and then gradual refil the top line and the cooler? whats the best way to ensure air is not going or how to get air out of the tunnel cooler?

and just to reiterate, bottle is getting warm, and the two lines coming from the motor are as well. there is the small one running somewhere, i presume its to the brake, havent followed it. i wouldnt think that would cause this whole thing to be of an issue.

any other ideas? can we get some more chime in please if anyone knows someone.

and truly, thank you all for your replies, truly appreciate it.

I had a mtntk tunnel cooler in addition to the oem coolers on my 2016 800 turbo.

I would tip it on its side and burp air out of the double pass coolers twice before popping the air screw on the motor.

Then it would be very close to full. (Starting from pure empty)

 

[SUMMITREV]

Yeah, so no change. moved the tank enough to get access to the tunnel hoses really well. removed and replaced temp sensor with the 2020 model one. just to be safe. got the sled on a incline on my sled deck ramp. left the cap off and ran it at high idle before clutch engagement,
sled started to get super hot, even started to fill the bottle back up. still tunnel and tunnel hoses were cold. opinions on the next step?
say screw it and let the dealer deal with it?
how often does a actual water pump go out? guy i bought it from said he rode it all last season no issues, this is a fluke ordeal.
should i just drain the bottle as much as possible? then take the cooler lines off the bottle and flush the lines? then end up attatching the bottom one that goes to the thermostat and then gradual refil the top line and the cooler? whats the best way to ensure air is not going or how to get air out of the tunnel cooler?

and just to reiterate, bottle is getting warm, and the two lines coming from the motor are as well. there is the small one running somewhere, i presume its to the brake, havent followed it. i wouldnt think that would cause this whole thing to be of an issue.

any other ideas? can we get some more chime in please if anyone knows someone.

and truly, thank you all for your replies, truly appreciate it.

It is not this hard to bleed air out in these. With everything you have done it should be circulating. You either have a blockage (foreign as stated or thermostat) or water pump is not working. Volk should have heat cycled it after they rebuilt it. At this point someone did something wrong or did not find the original problem that caused it to need a motor rebuild in the first place.

 

[TRS]

Did someone do a tunnel cut to this sled?

 

[Yeager74]

No tunnel cut. I agree, shouldn't be this hard, but maybe a weird bubble. Will get it on its left panel and try it, or tear it down and look for something. I think since the sled went to have the poorly Installed kit fixed, they did a top end then.
Guy I got it from road all last season but right before I got it, he messed up the hyfax when loading,
Had it tipped over on both sides, and was lower on coolant when I went to do the tstat. Sled must have been on a unlevel surface when I initially checked it at purchase.
All in all, still a good deal for what I paid for it and will get this squared away I wouldn't think it's the water pump and it randomly going out. So, I'll try the left side completely laid over, and try running it with the cap off till about 140-160 temp, and try to work a bubble out of the tunnel cooler. I think vohk would have caught a cooling issue when they did their mountain test and tune session as it would heat up pretty quick. So, yeah! Thanks for all your replies.

 

[Yeager74]

Update-
I have done everything under the sun to "burp" the cooling system. I am just straight up not getting circulation. Sled just climbs in temp, within 2-3 minutes its at 150-165, and i just shut it down. Tunnel coolers arnt getting warm. sled was Nose up in the air, bled intercooler system following boondockers procedure. bled the tunnel by pulling the hot side hose off the tunnel and letting fluid come out of the bottle into the tunnel then putting the hose on quick. removed the temp sensor with it being the highest point and blew into the bottle forcing fluid through the hot side house and into the temp sensor then pinched the hotside hose and blew air through the cold side- through the waterpump, up the engine and out the temp sensor hole. So essentially all systems have been bled, then left the sled nose in the air and ran it with the same outcome. this time i kept my hand on both hoses going to the bottle, (hot side and cold side) and there wasnt any hose temp changes besides some radiant coolant warming up from the head.

So no circulation.

This takes me to the point of someone on a 850 patriot facebook forum informing me that its more likely that the shaft splines would be more susceptible to go instead of the impeller. This being due to them being plastic. Which is news to me. Opinions on this?
It seems very uncommon for the impeller or the splines to go out. No way to test until someone can get a hand on the W/P shaft.

Is this something VOHK could have noticed or seen when they were doing a topend on the sled and fixing the turbo system? I dont think so since its in the crank case?

Anyone have ideas on what replacement cost-typical labor would be on this? Since it would be the point of splitting the case to replace the shaft, if labor charges on it are through the roof, would I be better just getting ahold of IndyDan for a specifically built turbo motor to just have carls cycle drop in?

I appreciate for whomever comments back on this or brings someone who knows all about these to this forum.

 

[live2beel]

Did you put the new water bottle with the thermostat on it yourself? Is there any movement of the coolant when it's running if you look in the bottle? I just went out and started one up with the cap off and I could see the fluid moving. If you see no movement it's probably the water pump

 

[SUMMITREV]

Update-
I have done everything under the sun to "burp" the cooling system. I am just straight up not getting circulation. Sled just climbs in temp, within 2-3 minutes its at 150-165, and i just shut it down. Tunnel coolers arnt getting warm. sled was Nose up in the air, bled intercooler system following boondockers procedure. bled the tunnel by pulling the hot side hose off the tunnel and letting fluid come out of the bottle into the tunnel then putting the hose on quick. removed the temp sensor with it being the highest point and blew into the bottle forcing fluid through the hot side house and into the temp sensor then pinched the hotside hose and blew air through the cold side- through the waterpump, up the engine and out the temp sensor hole. So essentially all systems have been bled, then left the sled nose in the air and ran it with the same outcome. this time i kept my hand on both hoses going to the bottle, (hot side and cold side) and there wasnt any hose temp changes besides some radiant coolant warming up from the head.

So no circulation.

This takes me to the point of someone on a 850 patriot facebook forum informing me that its more likely that the shaft splines would be more susceptible to go instead of the impeller. This being due to them being plastic. Which is news to me. Opinions on this?
It seems very uncommon for the impeller or the splines to go out. No way to test until someone can get a hand on the W/P shaft.

Is this something VOHK could have noticed or seen when they were doing a topend on the sled and fixing the turbo system? I dont think so since its in the crank case?

Anyone have ideas on what replacement cost-typical labor would be on this? Since it would be the point of splitting the case to replace the shaft, if labor charges on it are through the roof, would I be better just getting ahold of IndyDan for a specifically built turbo motor to just have carls cycle drop in?

I appreciate for whomever comments back on this or brings someone who knows all about these to this forum.

If it has been this way since you got it from vohk with a "rebuilt engine" take it back. If is all they did was top end no the could not see water pump drive. But they should have found the problem in new engine heat cycle and not sent it out the door.

 

[Yeager74]

Did you put the new water bottle with the thermostat on it yourself? Is there any movement of the coolant when it's running if you look in the bottle? I just went out and started one up with the cap off and I could see the fluid moving. If you see no movement it's probably the water pump

All I am seeing is the coolant slapping around in there, no actual movement if that makes sense.

SUMMITREV, I bought it from a guy who had it rebuilt at VOHK and it has less then 153 miles after the rebuild. So, since the sled has changed hands, i doubt they will do anything about it, but I will see what they say tomorrow.

Thanks for your replies guys.

 

[Bad Daddy]

And the answer is???

 

[great in the 608]

Yeah, so no change. moved the tank enough to get access to the tunnel hoses really well. removed and replaced temp sensor with the 2020 model one. just to be safe. got the sled on a incline on my sled deck ramp. left the cap off and ran it at high idle before clutch engagement,
sled started to get super hot, even started to fill the bottle back up. still tunnel and tunnel hoses were cold. opinions on the next step?
say screw it and let the dealer deal with it?
how often does a actual water pump go out? guy i bought it from said he rode it all last season no issues, this is a fluke ordeal.
should i just drain the bottle as much as possible? then take the cooler lines off the bottle and flush the lines? then end up attatching the bottom one that goes to the thermostat and then gradual refil the top line and the cooler? whats the best way to ensure air is not going or how to get air out of the tunnel cooler?

and just to reiterate, bottle is getting warm, and the two lines coming from the motor are as well. there is the small one running somewhere, i presume its to the brake, havent followed it. i wouldnt think that would cause this whole thing to be of an issue.

any other ideas? can we get some more chime in please if anyone knows someone.

and truly, thank you all for your replies, truly appreciate it.

Have the same sled. While in the middle of an average day riding along I overheated. Tried the normal stuff on the trail to cool it but it overheated again more quickly and started steaming.....towed it to the trailer. I took it to the dealer; it was a warrantee fix on the water pump. An issue with their water pumps I was told.
It runs fine now with the new water pump.