'08 M1000 Bog and other stuff - For reference (no luck yet on bog)
- Thread starter bgreen776
- Start date
Been answering calls today on the service bulletin release 2/12/09 by Arctic Cat. This service bulletin (actually 2 bulletins...one for 2007 .... one for 2008) is a high altitude update that will include the exhaust deflector, rubber boot etc to update it like the 2009 model. The ECU reflash is BASED on the 2009 ECU. It is different for both models due to ECU differences, Exhaust differences, as well as the AC/DC difference....but should have the same driveability as the 2009.
I will post info on the reflash as will be testing this weekend. PM me if you have questions. Call your local dealer to schedule this update and give them some time to get the parts in as well as realize that the parts will most likely be on backorder after this week due to demand.
It doesn't look like this update is going to do anything for me or anyone riding at or near sea level. Will be interesting to see what happens. I'm probably not going to have them reflash mine until I have more information.
I figured I might as well do the re-flash, figured it couldn't get any worse right?!
Today was my first ride to the mountains on the new reflash... Not impressed at all. Sled is stock other than M8 Gears and an SLP can. Bogging at around 4-4500. Very poor throttle response. Fuel is at 41 psi. (our fuel is 4% more rich than lower 48 fuel) I'll try my D&D can and adjusting the fuel pressure, but I've pretty much given up at this point. Cat needs to get their sh!t together or take their junk back.
Today was my first ride to the mountains on the new reflash... Not impressed at all. Sled is stock other than M8 Gears and an SLP can. Bogging at around 4-4500. Very poor throttle response. Fuel is at 41 psi. (our fuel is 4% more rich than lower 48 fuel) I'll try my D&D can and adjusting the fuel pressure, but I've pretty much given up at this point. Cat needs to get their sh!t together or take their junk back.
I've been messing with my 09 m1000 this is what I found. stock ran great 060 belt, slp can pretty much the same,then put the 046 on ran pretty much the same but liked the 060 better, put slp y-pipe on and 53psi fuel pressure and ran great with 046. all this between 4-10,000 feet elevation. put full slp, bd box and put fuel pressure back to stock (43-44 psi depending on gauge used) and 060 belt around 6500 7000 feet ran strong but much higher (up to 10,000 feet) and got a mid range bog and would hit 7400 rpm then drop to 6900rpm tried tuning it out with bd but no luck, reclutched it with stiffer primary spring and 77g weights. It helped but still had 1 second mid range delay/bog and would hold higher rpm but felt like it was over working on top would hit 7500 and drop to 7400 and hold it. Put 046 on and no more bog and better top end 7500- 7600 and holding. I play with belt deflection the whole time as well. Still would like to get a little more out of the clutching but the bog was completely from clutching. haven't tried it below 6500 feet yet.
Thats good info WYO. I think clutching has something to do with my situation too, but it definitely isn't all of it. My clutching philosophy is to get the engine running good, then to clutch it. I found a Boondocker box on the classifieds here, so I'll try that next.
I'd also like to try some harder rollers for my secondary, and a shift assist. (I think these are unlikely to improve anything noticable, but they are cheap and easy to install) Next year I'll get a new track then work on the clutching.
I'd also like to try some harder rollers for my secondary, and a shift assist. (I think these are unlikely to improve anything noticable, but they are cheap and easy to install) Next year I'll get a new track then work on the clutching.
On these sleds you can't tune the engine if the clutching doesn't work, when teh bog first came up I tried tunning it out with no luck and was running numbers way higher like 10 points higher on the top to keep the egt's down. It was causing the motor to over work creating to much heat and could have burned it down if it wasn't for egt's. Find a good easy clutching setup (one that is proven for elevation and mods if any, use same belt fuel ect...) and go from there. make sure clutching is aligned and deflection is correct as well.
I agree with the above statement^
I have not had a bog on my 08m1000, but when I backed my spring all the way off on my torsional secondary my sled developed a bog.
I have not had a bog on my 08m1000, but when I backed my spring all the way off on my torsional secondary my sled developed a bog.
Did you have a bog that caused the engine to die? Did yours bog and die when you were off the throttle? Mine does, so I dont think thats clutching related. I have the other problems everyone else complains about too, which I agree, could verly likely be related to clutching.
Some of the problems I am having are not common, I dont believe it is the same problem that 99% of the m1000 owners are complaining about.
My dealer said it happened to him the other day, and he happened to be watching his AF ratio. He said it went to 20:1 then died. I dont have an AF gauge, so I dont know if this is whats happening to me, but its possible.
Some of the problems I am having are not common, I dont believe it is the same problem that 99% of the m1000 owners are complaining about.
^^^^Has anyone tried this yet? ^^^^
My dealer said it happened to him the other day, and he happened to be watching his AF ratio. He said it went to 20:1 then died. I dont have an AF gauge, so I dont know if this is whats happening to me, but its possible.
WELL its about timw we talked about this new flash update. Mine is also very fat it almost falls on its face from 6200 to 6800 rpm,s. Spitts out black smoke runs good to 6200 rpm and at wot this is epa aproved???????? who paid off who? Mine also used to get 8 to 9 mpg. Just did the math and its now at 6 but i did not buy this thing for fuel milege Oh it is a 08 M1K SP. Just do not under stand why its so rich. The higher i go the worse it is i sure hope AC can help with this.....................
Poor fuel mileage.
Goose, I completely agree with you. My fuel mileage did the exact. I started a thread to verify the change in mileage and others report the same. Mine is modified with a fuel controller so I guess that I am lucky that I don't have the 62-6800 rpm problem that you do. Just poor mileage. Why can't they build an EFI system that works with two strokes as good as on cars??
Goose, I completely agree with you. My fuel mileage did the exact. I started a thread to verify the change in mileage and others report the same. Mine is modified with a fuel controller so I guess that I am lucky that I don't have the 62-6800 rpm problem that you do. Just poor mileage. Why can't they build an EFI system that works with two strokes as good as on cars??
If I make a long pull in deep powder and stop and let it idle, then sometimes it does want to die... If I play with the throttle it will come out of it 50% of the time, and want to die the other 50.
Have never had it bog if I keep riding though, only if I stop.
I should get to try out the reflash this weekend and I will report back.
if it is dying around 4000rpm do what you said and after it dies pull the plugs and see what they look like, might tell you something might not. also the barometer tube location might be enough to make it worse or better. if you put it closer to a heat source it should pic up on the thinner air density in a colder location it should think the air is thicker giving it more fuel, not sure if this theory will work but logically it might. If it dies shine a light at the oil pump and see if it is returning all the way it might not and could be causing a oil bog. Just pulled my oil pump out and deleted it, with it in my hands you can feel where it was hanging up about 1/3 of the way open, sometimes it worked and sometimes it stuck a little and I want my sled to run the same everytime, quite a joke if you ask me. there is also a temp sensor in the air box you might try the same thing as the barometer tube just for testing. Only do one thing at a time so you can know what changed things if anything at all.
after a long pull you have a lot of heat and it disapates the fuel faster than usual and could be causing a lean bog.
Could be,^ but it almost seems electrical?
Either way, I have no complaints other than the above issue at times.
A short idle it usually does not do it, but idling for any period of time after a long pull it will sometimes do it.
Either way, I have no complaints other than the above issue at times.
A short idle it usually does not do it, but idling for any period of time after a long pull it will sometimes do it.
For the BOG and Die there is no reason to pull plugs, the sled is going CRAZY lean and causing it to die. Others have verified this with AF meters.
For the rest of it, who knows, I'll probably have to install my own AF and EGT to get any real knowledge of whats going on.
For the rest of it, who knows, I'll probably have to install my own AF and EGT to get any real knowledge of whats going on.
i have an 09 with speedwerx y-pipe and custom pipes can....i used a speedwerx big air intake and drilled holes in the front of the airbox only, covered them with frogskinz......put an egt on it, and also a bd box for fuel adjustment......clutched it to suit me.......worked out the fuel bog by removing small amount of fuel in the 5000 to 6500 rpm range and added fuel in the 7200 to 7500 rpm range....clutched to run in the 72-7400 range.....no bog, runs hard, pulls very hard......other 1000s with full exhaust systems, ported etc. still can't run with mine on the hill or a drag race.....xps? not a contest, dragons? is to laugh.....piped xps, not close....dragons on nos? not a chance.....i use a 46 belt and get between 6-700 miles before i change it because it has narrowed down enough that the clutching is starting to let it rev too much on a hard pull....these are just the things i have done to make my 1000 what i want it to be...now i just ride.
i have an 09 with speedwerx y-pipe and custom pipes can....i used a speedwerx big air intake and drilled holes in the front of the airbox only, covered them with frogskinz......put an egt on it, and also a bd box for fuel adjustment......clutched it to suit me.......worked out the fuel bog by removing small amount of fuel in the 5000 to 6500 rpm range and added fuel in the 7200 to 7500 rpm range....clutched to run in the 72-7400 range.....no bog, runs hard, pulls very hard......other 1000s with full exhaust systems, ported etc. still can't run with mine on the hill or a drag race.....xps? not a contest, dragons? is to laugh.....piped xps, not close....dragons on nos? not a chance.....i use a 46 belt and get between 6-700 miles before i change it because it has narrowed down enough that the clutching is starting to let it rev too much on a hard pull....these are just the things i have done to make my 1000 what i want it to be...now i just ride.
how much do you weigh, theres a slightly modded same as your mods on a m7 around here that most sleds wont touch, only they modded and well tuned ones. but the guy weighs 155lbs
STAT readings On Boondocker
Greetings,
Set up the boondocker to view the third STAT screen. There will be a bar graph on the bottom that reflects the Throttle Position. Run the throttle at the BOG area and watch the screen, if the graph is fluttering, check the TPS.
Use the RUN/CAPTURE modes on the Boondocker to try and get a glimps at the fuel delivery during the BOG.
The Boondocker is a good performance part, but it can also be a great tuning aid by being able to show the ECU DutyCycle to the injectors and what the TPS is reading when the button is set to Capture.
My M1000 has had good luck with the 046 belts, but don't try the High Voot UltaMax Kevlar. I had two of them and got less than 200 Miles on each one. Oh ya I also had to replace the left belly pan twice, buy a new belt guard and replace my broken LC1 O2 controller because of the explosive effects of a parting Kevlar belt.
Went back to the 046 and had no problems.
I had a conversation with Brad the other day about clutch alignment problems on M sleds. He has been working this issue with AC factory. It may be worth a call.
I did install the SLP exhaust kit, Y, Pipe and can. I rode it with factory clutching at first, it was funny. When tree riding behind someone just after clutch engagement the RPM would come up to 4000 with light throttle, when trying to hold it at that ground speed, the secondary clutch would let it shift up and the sled would start to accel even though the engine was only at 4000 RPM. If I let it go, it felt like a second gear kicked it and the engine would be under more strain.
After that I installed the recommended SLP seconary ramp, the primary parts are on back order. It ran better and shifts up and down smoothly now. It holds the low ratio better adn back shifts quicker with out excessive belt tention. It also has good engine braking when desending a steep hill. Kind of a bonus.
Later...
Greetings,
Set up the boondocker to view the third STAT screen. There will be a bar graph on the bottom that reflects the Throttle Position. Run the throttle at the BOG area and watch the screen, if the graph is fluttering, check the TPS.
Use the RUN/CAPTURE modes on the Boondocker to try and get a glimps at the fuel delivery during the BOG.
The Boondocker is a good performance part, but it can also be a great tuning aid by being able to show the ECU DutyCycle to the injectors and what the TPS is reading when the button is set to Capture.
My M1000 has had good luck with the 046 belts, but don't try the High Voot UltaMax Kevlar. I had two of them and got less than 200 Miles on each one. Oh ya I also had to replace the left belly pan twice, buy a new belt guard and replace my broken LC1 O2 controller because of the explosive effects of a parting Kevlar belt.
Went back to the 046 and had no problems.
I had a conversation with Brad the other day about clutch alignment problems on M sleds. He has been working this issue with AC factory. It may be worth a call.
I did install the SLP exhaust kit, Y, Pipe and can. I rode it with factory clutching at first, it was funny. When tree riding behind someone just after clutch engagement the RPM would come up to 4000 with light throttle, when trying to hold it at that ground speed, the secondary clutch would let it shift up and the sled would start to accel even though the engine was only at 4000 RPM. If I let it go, it felt like a second gear kicked it and the engine would be under more strain.
After that I installed the recommended SLP seconary ramp, the primary parts are on back order. It ran better and shifts up and down smoothly now. It holds the low ratio better adn back shifts quicker with out excessive belt tention. It also has good engine braking when desending a steep hill. Kind of a bonus.
Later...
Same problem with my dads. It needs to be properly vented, we got the Mo-Flow vents. http://www.myspace.com/moflowvents Thats the link to the site. Also, try clutching it. Can't remember exactly what we are running for belts, and I am not even in the same country as the sled, so I can't check, but he did the vents first and his sled runs great now. With the clutching it goes like a raped ape, you hit the throttle and be prepared to hold on.
If you are going to vents it, you will have to get rid of the air plenum that runs to the air vacuum. Take a peice of flo-rite, your AC dealer might have it, ours did, or any other peice of material of the same idea, and put it over the air vacuum. Flo-rite is just a material that lets only air go through, not water. Make sure you put it under the vents too, so that you don't get plugged up with snow.
If you are going to vents it, you will have to get rid of the air plenum that runs to the air vacuum. Take a peice of flo-rite, your AC dealer might have it, ours did, or any other peice of material of the same idea, and put it over the air vacuum. Flo-rite is just a material that lets only air go through, not water. Make sure you put it under the vents too, so that you don't get plugged up with snow.
