Why do the dragons act so wild when boondocking?

[Bubba700]

Something I noticed on setup rides this last winter too. Seemed really hard to keep a line when climbing, felt very twitchy. Seemed overly sensitive to any weight shift. Hoping the timbersled I'm putting in this summer will cure the problem a bit. I don't climb a whole lot so its not to big of a deal. Any info from the guys that have cured this would be appreciated.

 

[FTXMOTORSPORTS]

I believe the reasons for some riders lack of control on this chassis lie in almost every post above...like I said before-most of our smaller or more "spry"(for lack of a better term)guys were happy with minor tweaks.We noticed as the rider got heavier and/or didn't have as quick a reaction time(like me), there were more complaints.So we kept working to stabilize the chassis a bit for this type of rider. Then we threw more power under the hood and again had to mellow things out a bit more to allow the rider to tailor the chassis to match his physical reaction time and riding style. A bunch of really cool setups came out of this process in the last two seasons and almost every one was a little bit different from the last.

curt

 

[pthfndr]

I rode this sled once how come it doesn't handle like mine????

if I jump off my sled onto A different one they never handle right??

I don't care how good of A rider you are if you switch sleds it is going to take more than one ride to get used to it

The dragon is an awesome boondocking machine and handles excellent even with the stock set-up, best sled I have ever owned, but I have 4000 miles on it!! (4 engines though)

 

[victorsledneck]

Great thread!! I agree with everyone on this as I am one that had alot of the same questions and thought process as many of you. I think this is one of the funniest chasis when you get use to it. I didn't say that at first though. I to had to adjust my riding form a lot to the IQ chasis. From racing rmsha on the edge chasis, which I was very comfortable and as one with the sled...then jumping to the IQ, I was pretty slow in the corners and didn't do so well in '07. I found that I was "over riding" the thing and trying to ride it like the edge chasis. Some other racers felt the same way.
After several hours of watching videos of the races and other racers...the corners were a complete disaster for me...I mean I was slow! It felt like the sled was just going to sling shot me over the handlebars (which it did once in Bear Lake).
I talked to Nate Zollinger with Zbros and got one of their first sets of shocks. He set them up for my weight and riding style, (aggressive in this case), and wow did that make a difference. Smooth...responsive...they were even great for the back hills playing. I let one of my friends take my sled out and I could not get it back (or rather catch him) from him as I was riding his rough rider.
Set up to one's personal riding style is so key. Shock set and the ZBros wide front end kit helped in the corning. Also realizing that I don't need to put much effort to get the sled to respond when boondocking, climbing, carving or playing around.
This year we are putting straight rails on and rolling the chain case for a better aproach angle. This is mostly for the back hills playing as this chasis does trench on me and as I try to keep up with some of the local big dogs here. I can't wait to try it when it is all finished. Just keep tinkering till it works for you.

 

[coolx2]

I had many of the same issues that others have mentioned. I found after talking to Carls, and some others here on snow west it came down to set-up. I swapped out the front shocks to a set of floats{valved to my weight 240+lbs} and the sled started handling better. Then got the rears shocks swapped out and the set up for my weight, also got the fatboy torsion springs. Sled handles great know in the trees and climbs great. I'm really happy with how it handles now and have had friends who have ridden it before and after and say it handles ten times better then when new. Thanks to all that helped me getting it set up. Looking forward to next season already.

 

[sledcaddie]

dragon handling

I agree with Ollie. Every rider out there has to find which sled works best for him/her. Different weights, different riding styles. Sleds are very "job specific". There are racing sleds, trail sleds, utility sleds, 2-up sleds, and of course, mountain sleds. It's the age-old argument: Ford-Chevy, Coke-Pepsi. In my case, I'm 6', 185 lbs. When I first got the 08 D8 155, I thought it was a little tippy. After a few rides, I love how easily I can carve around. I can side-hill with this better than ever! One guy I ride with has a new Doo, which he can ride the crap out of, but he doesn't like my sled. That's okay. Another guy in our group rode mine, now he wants one. That's okay too. You all can ride anything you choose. I choose this sled. I won't say your decision is wrong, and you can't say my decision is wrong. It is always interesting though to read what others do to "tweak" their sleds and how it affected things. That's what these threads are for; to share info and ideas, not to criticize each other. Keep the info coming. I've got all summer to digest it all.

 

[go high fast]

I find the handle bars too narrow. Not too low or too high and not too much forward or too far back just too narrow. It seemed like I couldnt get a good grip or good leverage on the sled.

The other thing I noticed is that it seems most wild when coming down some serious hills. Up hill was fine but I felt like I was on the edge of losing control coming down hill. Plus the rider forward thing along with not much room in the footwells made it so I was sliding forward on the seat something wicked so much so that my knees pushed up against the cowling where the only thing keeping me from going over the handle bars.

Not crazy about it.

 

[KAWGRN]

mines boosted and I to cant seem to get it right the turning radius is my biggest complaint I need a football feild to get it turned which is problem for me when the trees get tight in the draws then there seems like there is no good compromise as far as ski pressure,,when you get it so it turns I need arnold shnegger arms if I take just a little off the the skis are in the air,I thinking timbersled here and mabe there front end just to get a little tighter turning radius I havent figureed out what to do about the Bar but I really like the shape of the doo bars. but the turning radius is my biggest complaint!! I know that timber sled and holz have tighter turning spindels but both would add to the effort turn the bars. I saw in the snow west test when they ran the sleds in a circle that the Dragon had the largest circle by a bunch and that test alone hit home as to why Im ahving trouble. I have a XP 146 as my spare sled and it seems to do some things better some worse I measured from the floor the primary clutch bolt to the floor and my doo is about 14 inches off the floor and the P is about 17 inches..... Ok higher center of gravity I understand that so usually whe the Cg goes up The front end needs to get wider to compensate MY CMX had a High CG and we had fronts at 43 inches cc so mabe shortning the front shock an inch and widening the A arms and add a tighter turning front spindle would do the trick and some how controling the weight transfer to keep the skis on the ground,,,,,,, I dont know... I just know I love this motor at 14psi of boost and I have to find a way of making the chassie work for me !!!!

 

[turbodiesel5.9]

I know I have said this a few times on other threads but I know for me the handle bar position on my sled is critical, if my bars get moved 1" too far forward it totaly changes how the sled handles. The same would apply if they are too far back. It took me a bit to find the sweet spot but once you have it just mark the bars and have fun. And I am 250lbs with zero gear so nimble is not my middle name but with this sled I can ride like a pro and hardly ever have to throw my leg over the seat to get the sled to carve up a storm, as far as turning I can chop a nut in a space that's no wider then the sled is long. I will agree with this, the sled is not much fun to ride on hard pack snow but I did not buy it to ride on hard snow so I am very happy with it.

 

[Bull]

jesus.....what a bunch of whiners. you can just about ride this sled with one hand all day. and i suck.

 

[crf118r]

I say ride the M8 if that's what you like. I personally wouldn't ride another chassis, even though this damn motor problem is haunting me. But that's what this thing is all about, personal preference. I think it wise to not bash (not specifically anyone here) the other brands, especially my brand (Polaris), on this forum. It doesn't get you anywhere. Just ride your choice of sled and if there really is a difference, show some Poo guy up on the hill. Good luck with that. Oh and have lots-o-fun doing it!

 

[RMK935VA]

The stock shocks don't work very well and adversely affect the handling, for heavier riders especially. I rode a 2010 a couple of weeks ago but it had Fox Zero Pros front and rear. They make a huge difference in handling. My own sled (08 Dragon) also has Zero Pros, Holz spindles and SLP Powder Pros. The skis and spindles help handling too.

Another thought is clutch engagement can make the sled more of handful in some circumstances. Clutching and gearing can help handling.

 

[DVarmit]

The dragon is an awesome boondocking machine and handles excellent even with the stock set-up, best sled I have ever owned, but I have 4000 miles on it!! (4 engines though)

Is that an Oxymoron?

 

[AndrettiDog]

Asking why the Dragon is tipsy (AKA "doesn't keep a line") is much like asking why the XP won't carve or sidehill (but keeps a line just fine). You really have to get used the the chassis. I have 3 years on the D7 and D8 now and I am so comfortable in just about any condition and wouldn't trade for another sled.

I think the problem lies in the front end. The front is narrow and the sled is tall. The stock Walker Evan shocks are very soft and work well in the powder. But they suck in the bumps and hitting a hill with some speed while trying to hold your line. There is no rebound to those shocks and they are springless. You have to transfer weight quickly as the sled will turn fast.

I have the wider Holz A-arms and Fox Float Evol R's. Granted this whole setup will set you back $1500, it gives me a wider stance with rebound in the shocks. This makes a huge difference in the stability up front. I can turn my shocks down quickly (with a knob) and I'm soft for the powder carving.

 

[Spaarky]

I only have a couple handfuls of rides on my. I really seem to like it, but have noticed this a bit too. I fit into Curts category of Supersized riders... comes from a few too many Frostys and Biggy Fries as a kid...

Coming off a Edge.. the only way I could describe it is this. On the shop floor, if you rocked my edge back and forth, the outside ski would come off the floor. The IQ, the body rolls. I think a lot of what I feel when boondocking around is a body roll. When climbing I can seem to control it pretty well....

Like I said, I feel it more at lower speeds boondocking...

 

[NDRMK]

I have an Assault and the better shocks up front make it handle terrific, both climbing, coming back down and on the trail!! Rear shocks great out in back country, but choppy on trail. My point is there are much better shocks out there that improve handling if you need a change! Luvin mine! Not a dragon, but my 2 cents.

 

[savagecanuck]

Glad that this thread got started, I have been wanting to talk about some of this chassis' issues for awhile. I have to say that in the right snow conditions it's the best or easiest chassis I've rode. IMO the right snow conditions for this chassis are 1'+ powder at tractoring / carving speeds on the throttle. IMO this chassis is one of the worst on hard pack or set up snow, little to no confidence in the handling in these conditions. I feel like I'm on the edge of loosing it and have to ride with alot of reservation. Not holding a line on a hill is also a problem that I can't get use to after riding it for two seasons. It's is frustrating not taking lines I've taken for years due to these handling problems.
It's nice to hear a guy like Curt know about these issues and list some solutions - Thanks

I could not agree more.I too find that if a hill is hard pack and bumpy the sled will not hold its line and makes abrupt directional changes.I have had a few scary moments this past riding season with unwanted course correctionsIt must be in the rear skid as mostly the front end is in the air.My sled is an 09 D800 155 and I am 5'10" and weigh 175lbs.I love just about eveything else handling wise including the ability to carve it over side to side with out ever having to move a leg over to the other side.I also could never side hill really well until I bought this sled.My issue with the new bar setup is that it is wayyy to low I raised mine 2 full inchs and I am only 5'10"

 

[hilinerider]

my dragon used to get wild in a sidehill until i removed the swaybar

 

[mod03rmk800]

I think the stock track has the potential to steer while the front is up. The lug design I don't like. I had the rear slide sideways a lot while holding a steep sidehill and trying to rip it up hill on harder snow. I also have the Walker fronts with Fabcraft chambers/valving and talking to them to get some rebound in there. It will be semi cheap to have them try and do it. The rebound is my only complaint with the shocks. I had many times when I let my guard down or when I was fatigued, that the front "pogo'd" all over the place resulting in a "what are you doing?" response from fellow riders.haha
Straight rails would make for a climbing improvement with the rear skid for sure, but big money would make for a great handling ride!! I had the rear-rear shock stiffened up a little on the compression and a little more on the rebound.(walker)
Was looking to calm the thing down a little in the woops on the trail. Don't have anything to compare to see if it did anything, only believe it did.

Curt, is there any hope for us "cheap" guys running the walkers and a turbo? I heard you found some good tweaks to the stock set up that helps a lot.

Ken, the Dragon is easier to put on its side than m1000 at least.(only thing I have been around to compare) Even the rider of that cat thinks the Dragon is more "nimble"(tippy) and coming off of the four strokes you might be giving it to much rider input instinctually? Doesn't take much effort to "track" steer the sled.

 

[never_to_much_powder]

I love the handling of my Dragooon yes the sled is very responsive to rider and twitchy I floped mine on its side so many times beore figured it out I went from a gen2 800 to a 800 dragon. The one thing that I dont like is the fact that the front end cant really take abuse of being hit the damn arms fold like tacos im out 3 lower arms and one upper and a shock. I love the power the sled and it has some problems but what sled doesnt these days... the m8 is a good sled but they are still an old chassie sled