Ski-Doo Muffler PT-1 [Summary], PT-2 [DETAILED] 850 turbo can, non-turbo can, trail can, quiet can, mountain can 800, 600 etc

[Dynamo^Joe]

Olav Aaen - clutch tuning handbook
04-05: To tune your clutches you have to know where the power band of your engine is.
04-06: When the engine has been modified, it is important that you know how the power curve has been changed to so that you can tune to the new power peak.
04-07: Any internal combustion engine is an air pump, and the amount of power you obtain is directly proportional to the weight of air and gas you can burn in a given time.
The density of the air has a direct effect on the power output. Air density is controlled by pressure, temperature and humidity. Pressure and temperature have the largest influence on your power.
04-08: Know your power curve and its limitations when you work on your clutch.
04-09: Your job as a clutch tuner is to the match the clutch to your engine curve and obtain the best possible performance of the conditions your vehicle is experiencing.

For the most part, I don't like cans for 2 reasons.
1] I can't take the noise from using them. Ive run many cans, either bought, borrowed or given to me. Always there is an ear stabbing sound between 62~6800 rpms at part throttle.
2] Many cans change the power peak rpm to a lower rpm. Only a rare handful have shown a "real" increase of a power peak change to a higher rpm by 100.

People can see published numbers by certain shops running the same dyno as everyone else. Their mufflers showing -1hp, or, same hp, or, +1, +2hp, ok fine...but then the same can's are brought to one of the types of Eddy current dynos and show a power peak rpm movement. Notice I did not say "Hp gain or loss".
i] That EC dyno showed a -250rpm movement in the power peak, or
ii]...a -100rpm movement in the power peak, or
iii]...a +100 rpm power peak movement.

i]Supposed to be 8000, went to 7750.
ii]Supposed to be 8000, went to 7900.
iii]Supposed to be 8000, went to 8100

I didn't say the word "horsepower." YOU immediately go to the word "horsepower" in your mind, because that's what you've been trained to do.
That word "horsepower" is for the people who know dynos. Since I dont know what they know, then i'll say "power peak rpm".

So I gets this phone call one day from a tech in this shop down in eastern Canada [not ontario] that has one of these eddy current dynos and he give me the power peak rpms of a list of cans. One popular can losing 250 rpms and pipe surging. One can losing 150 rpms. One can losing 100 rpms. Some cans original 7950 rpms, one can in particular gaining 100 rpms.
But the Johnnycan showed a power peak rpm movement of -250 rpm on Dan's EC dyno.
But Johhnycan company shows a HP gain on the Jonnycan's house dyno.

Now, i'm not trying to invoke anyone to show their current psychological condition of going on a rant about dynos.

Ski-Doo Muffler PT-2, [DETAILED] 850 turbo can...

www.dootalk.com

Its about this...
2 guys, Moe and Larry, have same sleds, bone stock except Moe has a Johnnycan muffler where it said on the Johnnycan website +X.X hp.
Both guys about the same rider weight with gear, run at the same elevation, bought gas from the same pump, same drive belt, same clutching....
But at the riding area, Moe is having difficult to get 8000 rpms.
Larry is 8000 and pulls like a freight train [Moe's words]
Only difference? Exhaust.

This is my answer to Moe
SKI-DOO MUFFLERS. This PT-1 video is a summary of main points to know when a Ski-Doo exhaust is modified, [MUFFLER/CAN] it may change the power peak rpms of your engine. A simple todo list at the end of it; how to prevent and/or correct a power peak rpm change.PT-2 video next, is detailed, covering many or all important points of WHY a muffler can change the power peak rpms. What's happening in the pipe regarding backpressure.
Short summary @ 7min long.


SKI-DOO MUFFLERS. This PT-2 video is DETAILED, why, how, what may happen when a Ski-Doo exhaust is modified, [MUFFLER/CAN] it may change the power peak rpms of your engine.

ADJUST THE PLAYBACK SPEED; You can speed up the video using youtube settings, playback settings 1.25, go.

I go into the theory and my own "bad, but-good" learning experience on why my engine could only run 6800 rpms in Cooke city at 7500~9500 feet. I changed out to 2 cans.
Borrowed stock = 8000.
Aftermarket can I owned & ran = 6800
Certain aftermarket = 8000.
Aftermarket can I owned & ran = 6800..what is happening?

 

[christopher]

I can already hear the HOWLING coming..

 

[jdog1]

Get the popcorn

 

[christopher]

Get the popcorn

For no one to have jumped on this shows just how quiet it is today!

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Get the popcorn

Christopher
For no one to have jumped on this shows just how quiet it is today!

There's not really anything of controversy.
Internet "can" disputes are usually over 2 issues...
1] outside features; noise, weight, form, brand, fashion - to which I made no issue of any feature.
2] Hypocrisy. Self declared master tuners who used to say Moe's can is the best and then after a squabble, switches to Larry's can and says Larry's can is the best; and then the master tuner's robots[sheep] and NPC"s run around banging the same gong

The only issue I brought up was what cans perform, its pressure bleed function. Cans design carry into effect; internal pipe pressure at full throttle and possible moving of the power peak rpm, whether good or bad.

 

[Teth-Air]

Some cans work and some cans don't. You can be sure of only 3 things. 1. The OEM muffler is going to work. 2. The OEM muffler is going to be heavy. 3. An aftermarket can is an "extra cost" that you don't need, but maybe want.

Outside of these facts is where the fun (or pain) starts.

We can't say all cans are loud, we can't say all mess up the engine tuning. People that use these blanket statements are not being fair to companies like SLP who have experience designing mufflers for OEM's.

 

[ATVPT]

For no one to have jumped on this shows just how quiet it is today!

Amazing that Driver hasn't jumped at his chance here today

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

In my video i talked about calling Dallyn at the former www.dmax.ca when I was about to blow up in Cooke City. he he.
After I blew up, I called Kelsey [RKT] about buying his piston drop in kit and do a little clutch part tradsey for engine parts. Talking with Kelsey on the phone, he mentioned the same thing as Dallyn to me about pipe pressure. He also said go read his tech article on his website about exhausts.
I ended up running RKT 800 piston drop in kit and spent the time to tune it out in the environment, following RKT directions on jetting and plug readings. I also spent spent an afternoon on the dyno. 144.7hp @ 8200 rpm conservative jetting. [+8hp]

• Stock 2005 muffler best power
• Aaen can, lower bottom end torque, but around same power peak rpm 8200
• Bikeman, power peak rpm moved lower. [-4hp] I sold the bm on ebay.

@tethair; over the years I poll people [check the status] and SLP is one of the muffler brands I don't recall hearing even one complaint about someone having to change clutch weight to correct rpms, or, rpms changed after mounting the can.

Not all cans are 100% x 100% of the time, regardless of aftermarket brand. Pick a company, any company; out of 100 cans in application, there has to be a percent where the power peak rpm moves, and/or the torque in the midrange rpms becomes lower.

 

[Driver]

Amazing that Driver hasn't jumped at his chance here today

I can feel the pain of DJ trying to fix customers clutching when they are running s*hitty cans. Personally I hate cans and Diamond S would be only one to consider if I had to have one.

 

[caper11]

Some cans work and some cans don't. You can be sure of only 3 things. 1. The OEM muffler is going to work. 2. The OEM muffler is going to be heavy. 3. An aftermarket can is an "extra cost" that you don't need, but maybe want.

Outside of these facts is where the fun (or pain) starts.

We can't say all cans are loud, we can't say all mess up the engine tuning. People that use these blanket statements are not being fair to companies like SLP who have experience designing mufflers for OEM's.

Poor example. SLP= “still looses power” I have had a heated discussion with Jerry Matthews at the Edmonton sled show, over a xp pipe system I bought. Tech said my problem was clutching because I was not running the exact setup they were, BS. Well I spent the money to prove them wrong, did the team conversion and it still didn’t work. Pulled the muffler, the pipe, and stuck the stock system back on the SLP y for testing, and it was banging off the rev limiter. They did give me my money back.

 

[Paul G]

Question for you guys; I want less weight, a cooker, no loss in performance. Sound is not an issue although I prefer the sled to be quiet as possible. What is the best solution/can to get?

 

[Paul G]

Currently I have a rpm lightweight stainless sport muffler with the quiet core baffle installed, and a cooker attached to it.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Question for you guys; I want less weight, a cooker, no loss in performance. Sound is not an issue although I prefer the sled to be quiet as possible. What is the best solution/can to get?

Im not being a smartass.
Search out the 20+ brands who make a can for your sled.
Write the name of each brand on a ping pong ball.
Put all the balls in a box and shake em up.
Stick yer hand in the box and pull out a ball.
Whatever company is written on that ball......go buy that can.

Then go run your sled and confirm you get proper rpms at the elevations you ride at. [refresher]
Once you are satisfied you're used to the power and look at the tach and hear the engine speed at full throttle, the engine's conduct
...then turn around and go back to the start and change out to your new can.
...go.
Question] did you lose engine speed, yes or no?

...That's a reasonable answer, I figure.

 

[christopher]

Im not being a smartass.
Search out the 20+ brands who make a can for your sled.
Write the name of each brand on a ping pong ball.
Put all the balls in a box and shake em up.
Stick yer hand in the box and pull out a ball.
Whatever company is written on that ball......go buy that can.

Then go run your sled and confirm you get proper rpms at the elevations you ride at. [refresher]
Once you are satisfied you're used to the power and look at the tach and hear the engine speed at full throttle, the engine's conduct
...then turn around and go back to the start and change out to your new can.
...go.
Question] did you lose engine speed, yes or no?

...That's a reasonable answer, I figure.

ITS SO MUCH EASIER WITH A 4 STROKE ENGINE!!!!!!

 

[ATVPT]

ITS SO MUCH EASIER WITH A 4 STROKE ENGINE!!!!!!

I so agree with you Christopher! Do you remember when, I certainly do

 

[christopher]

I so agree with you Christopher! Do you remember when, I certainly do

Oh Ya, I REMEMBER.
If they would only get SERIOUS about developing a LIGHTWEIGHT 4 Stroke.
Its NOT an impossible task.

 

[ATVPT]

Oh Ya, I REMEMBER.
If they would only get SERIOUS about developing a LIGHTWEIGHT 4 Stroke.
Its NOT an impossible task.

I absolutely agree with you!

 

[jcjc1]

Oh Ya, I REMEMBER.
If they would only get SERIOUS about developing a LIGHTWEIGHT 4 Stroke.
Its NOT an impossible task.

not impossible but not enough would sell b/c of what they'd have to charge.

 

[christopher]

not impossible but not enough would sell b/c of what they'd have to charge.

Not arguing with you.
But I would love to have the OPTION of spending the extra money and knowing my engine would last just as long as they did on my Nytros!
all the while NOT paying that INSANE WEIGHT penalty.

4 Stroke win in so many ways OTHER than WEIGHT.

 

[saskattakman]

does this exact thing apply to pipes as well?