I would expect its a tough time in the snowmobile business. There is lots less money out there to throw around. Look at racing. NASCAR is loosing sponsorship every day. Times are tough. Do I agree with Polaris' decision to cut rental discounts, maybe. It is bad business to let anyone out there have your product for less money than your dealers. Without the dealer network you are out of business. The 600, 700, and 800 IQ's that my friends and I ride work fine, we have had very little problems. The 900 had its problems, I had one. I think there is lots of good sleds out there, Polaris included. I continue to ride a Polaris mainly because I have a great dealer that has helped me out many times. If he sold something else, I probably would at least take a look, but until he does I will bleed Polaris blue.
Polaris!! Thanks and No Thanks!!!
- Thread starter rockinmranch
- Start date
B
Sounds like Polaris is in trouble with their snowmobile side of things....
Bummer to hear all of these problems and being a part of them with one of my riding buddies (skibreeze) that rebuilds his motor in the trailer and or hones it out so he can at least ride.
The parts are crazy!
$180 for a belt for a 600 get real!
Bummer to hear all of these problems and being a part of them with one of my riding buddies (skibreeze) that rebuilds his motor in the trailer and or hones it out so he can at least ride.
The parts are crazy!
$180 for a belt for a 600 get real!
S
just rent the same sleds next year.problem solved
My dealer has also been great. As I said in the first post, if not business, I would not consider a change. $600 of $800 of the price increase of the 600 rmk is for everyone "MSRP". Only $200 is reduced rental discounts. Without a rental discount, rental companies would not exist, because no one would pay the $300 a day to rent a sled, of which would be necasary to pay the depreciation to justify running this type business. Also rental companys take the discount but also loose a year of warranty. The real point of the pricing is not the discount or price, but what Polaris is charging for the same machine as compared to the other brands. As of now the 600 RMK is $800 more, but the resale at the end is the same. This adds up over a fleet. Once again I believe the 600 RMK is the best all around sled on the snow, thats why this sucks, I don't want to leave Polaris. They leave me no choice.
*At the end of two years, 6000-7000 miles, a sled is not dependable anymore, therefore a high chance of ruining a renters day from a breakdown.
Do you purchase those sleds direct from Polaris or through a dealer?
H
Whatever.......
I dont feel a bit sorry for you, I dont rent sleds but on more than one occassion I hear the horror story of "oh needs a hood...needs a arm" Only to RETAIL the crap outa the renter and then patch it up with some zip ties and charge it out to the next guy! You want me to feel sorry for you losing some bottom line profit????? **** THAT.
THEN, You ***** about discounts on new units when you put 3k miles on them and then try to resell them for 6k used because the market is good on them and you are trying to take advantage of that! I cant blame you for that but DONT come on here and whine about your bottom line not being as good while doing it.
I dont feel a bit sorry for you, I dont rent sleds but on more than one occassion I hear the horror story of "oh needs a hood...needs a arm" Only to RETAIL the crap outa the renter and then patch it up with some zip ties and charge it out to the next guy! You want me to feel sorry for you losing some bottom line profit????? **** THAT.
THEN, You ***** about discounts on new units when you put 3k miles on them and then try to resell them for 6k used because the market is good on them and you are trying to take advantage of that! I cant blame you for that but DONT come on here and whine about your bottom line not being as good while doing it.
You sure seem educated on this subject. I'm sure all rental companys with "Big Money" are out to screw the world. Did you vote for OBAMA!!
H
You see a education as a threat.....didnt mean to insult your fine GED education.
S
save $ and buy heldovers
Good way to put it Himark, agree with you 100%. If rentals didn't make money then you wouldn't be doing it. Shiat, $600 is just a couple day extra rental money. Good luck supporting the USA by going BRP, good luck just keeping them running. LMFAO!
3000 miles, 100miles/day = 30 days being rented out, probably more like 45 days out at $200/day and that is $6k-$9k and it has paid for itself already and you turn around and sell it for $6k? Even paying $8k for the sled initially it has brought in $12k easy to your business. Quitcher moaning and crying about paying extra.
3000 miles, 100miles/day = 30 days being rented out, probably more like 45 days out at $200/day and that is $6k-$9k and it has paid for itself already and you turn around and sell it for $6k? Even paying $8k for the sled initially it has brought in $12k easy to your business. Quitcher moaning and crying about paying extra.
Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't think so, I think some of you other guys are. He's talking about pure business decision here... if your supply is now $800 more than it was last year you are surely going to look at other options. That said, you better also factor in the other costs. I don't know that switching to Doo is going to pay off with the issues they have in quality, but maybe going to Cat would.
For sure Polaris is doing some strange things with pricing this next year. Just look at the RUSH for proof of that. They have been hyping in their previews how much simpler the RUSH is to build and how they cut all these parts out of it which gave them cost savings and increased the quality. But they jack the price at least $1000 over the competing offerings from the other OEMs. That's a tough sell.
sled_guy
For sure Polaris is doing some strange things with pricing this next year. Just look at the RUSH for proof of that. They have been hyping in their previews how much simpler the RUSH is to build and how they cut all these parts out of it which gave them cost savings and increased the quality. But they jack the price at least $1000 over the competing offerings from the other OEMs. That's a tough sell.
sled_guy
Not impressed!
It seems to me that the overall quality has gone down. Not only does the motor have reliability issues, but electronic failures seem to be on the rise. I have seen several stators fail this year as well as ecu's and regulators. At least when cat built the early m series efi sleds the motors lasted. The electronics sucked but the motors didn't fail. I sure am glad I am the proud owner of 2 cfi mtn sleds that I couldn't sell if I had to. Thanks Polaris for proving to the world that Americans manufacture the highest quality goods available. Anyone know how many parts are outsourced to chinese manufacturers?
It seems to me that the overall quality has gone down. Not only does the motor have reliability issues, but electronic failures seem to be on the rise. I have seen several stators fail this year as well as ecu's and regulators. At least when cat built the early m series efi sleds the motors lasted. The electronics sucked but the motors didn't fail. I sure am glad I am the proud owner of 2 cfi mtn sleds that I couldn't sell if I had to. Thanks Polaris for proving to the world that Americans manufacture the highest quality goods available. Anyone know how many parts are outsourced to chinese manufacturers?
Prices went up in every manufacturer. Our dollar is stronger than the CA dollar so prices seem lower here. But go across the border and take it up the azz.
The Rush is right there with the E-Tec from Doo, one here where I live and it has had its share of problems all winter long. I'd buy a Cat before a Doo if buying new. New technology, everyone has to pay for it before the price drops the following year.
If I would rent, I'd rather rent it at a place that rents Polaris and Cats first. Live in America, gotta keep it real!
The Rush is right there with the E-Tec from Doo, one here where I live and it has had its share of problems all winter long. I'd buy a Cat before a Doo if buying new. New technology, everyone has to pay for it before the price drops the following year.
If I would rent, I'd rather rent it at a place that rents Polaris and Cats first. Live in America, gotta keep it real!
I
And I won't think parts prices will be any cheaper from BRP either...
Thanks sled guy and chumbilly for understanding. I tried to make two basic points, I like Polaris sleds, but I think there pricing is getting out of hand. I wrote this post hoping that possibly the right person from Polaris corporate might see a rental guys perspective and possibly correct what I think will prove to be a mistake. I didn't write this so some random guy, who has never rented from me, could accuse me and most rental businesses of screwing everyone. Plenty of cussing and negative tone for a guy who "heard" this from a buddy. Now he's goining to give a economics lesson to me about my business, come on. I would love to explain how the rental business works, how much sleds are depreciating in 2009, insurance, short seasons, resale, permits, commercial licensing, etc. But why? Not the point of the post. This post got alot of attention, thats's what I was after. Maybe the right guy will read it. Have a great summer, pray for snow next season.
Later, Rob
Later, Rob
S
Rob... I am pissed your switchin teams. I dont know wehre I am going to buy sleds anymore... hahahahahah....
Justin
Justin
I admit I don't know how this works, but do you deal direct with Polaris or through a local dealer? Your dealer may be willing to bump your margin a bit or try talking directly with a regional rep. Just because that's whats on paper, doesn't mean that is the end of the discussion. They may look at you as a long time customer who needs an exception. If not, well, you already have plan B in place.
In this economy dollars really count. What trends can he expect to see for the upcoming season. No snow? Maybe less renters? If he has to raise his prices fewer people will find it feasible to rent for a weekend. So, fewer people will be renting. Or, if the SkiDoo rental place down the road is able to rent for $50 less, where do you think the customer will rent from. Again, putting more strain on his business.
Just because someone owns a business in this industry, rarely does it mean they are getting rich. They are in it for the love of the sport and usually can keep food on the table, but rarely own a house on the top of the hill.
Not trying to start an argument, just wanted to touch on a viewpoint. I think we all want to support American made products, but how feasible is that statement really? Value for dollar spent is very low. Prices continue to climb and quality continues to decline all the while a few undeserving CEO's continue to increase their waistline. As American's, we need to relay the message that we won't put up with it. It's like enabling a child by rewarding them for bad behavior. We unfortunately build some of the most undesirable vehicles in the world. Our auto manufactures admit they are 10yrs behind what foreign companies are doing. Popular here by slapping "made in the USA" or buy American stickers on them. I know companies that have to have products produced overseas for A)price would be astronomical to produce with American labor and B)there isn't even a facility that can produce the quality standards required? As Americans, it's beyond time to step up to the plate. Sorry I got off topic there. Cheers everyone and good luck with your business and decisions for the upcoming season.
In this economy dollars really count. What trends can he expect to see for the upcoming season. No snow? Maybe less renters? If he has to raise his prices fewer people will find it feasible to rent for a weekend. So, fewer people will be renting. Or, if the SkiDoo rental place down the road is able to rent for $50 less, where do you think the customer will rent from. Again, putting more strain on his business.
Just because someone owns a business in this industry, rarely does it mean they are getting rich. They are in it for the love of the sport and usually can keep food on the table, but rarely own a house on the top of the hill.
Not trying to start an argument, just wanted to touch on a viewpoint. I think we all want to support American made products, but how feasible is that statement really? Value for dollar spent is very low. Prices continue to climb and quality continues to decline all the while a few undeserving CEO's continue to increase their waistline. As American's, we need to relay the message that we won't put up with it. It's like enabling a child by rewarding them for bad behavior. We unfortunately build some of the most undesirable vehicles in the world. Our auto manufactures admit they are 10yrs behind what foreign companies are doing. Popular here by slapping "made in the USA" or buy American stickers on them. I know companies that have to have products produced overseas for A)price would be astronomical to produce with American labor and B)there isn't even a facility that can produce the quality standards required? As Americans, it's beyond time to step up to the plate. Sorry I got off topic there. Cheers everyone and good luck with your business and decisions for the upcoming season.
H
Well you didn't write this TO Polaris you wrote it in a open forum for discussion apparently. Sorry you do not approve of all the replies but truth can be brutal.
Once again you wrote this in a open forum so lots of "random guys" here and the fact I have never rented from you personally must prove that you don't charge retail for your parts and you must give them out at trade price just to be a super nice guy! or that hood/side panel you charged for always gets replaced with the new one the customer paid for??
I do not believe there was any lesson intended. Just discussion on the very facts you posted. If you don't like the publics answer don't post it on a public discussion.
If you believe that parts and unit pricing is done completely un-biased from competition you really do need a lesson in business. You will find overall prices to be very competitive brand to brand when you look at big picture. Surely you are not this naive
D
Sorry to come in here and steal this thread for a minute. I usaully only stop by the poo section to make me feel better. I'm kind of sick and tired of all this bashing I keep getting from rmk727 and would like to set the record straight.
The first trip all I (09 xp owner) ever did was change a belt after I burnt one up pulling your a$$ out and I had to mess with the clickers because of the new belt. Also on the first trip day one we had three feet of powder, you and another poo owner had to go back to the lodge and work on your sleds. I think you even worked on yours the second morning too.
Second trip I had put a clucth kit in and was trying to find the correct pin weight. I ONLY CHANGED WEIGHTS IN MY CLUTCH AFTER THE DAYS RIDING WAS OVER. You were allways in bed when I worked on my sled.
The last trip you called me a day and a half before you were leaving. My sled was allready at the dealer because I thought I was done for the year. My sled was still very USEABLE. The head gasket was a very small leak of antifreeze on the exterior of head, it had been like that for 500 miles and I have not had to add antifreeze. The ecu was to reflash it so the temp and knock sensor were not so sincetive. Again the sled has been ridable with these minor issues.
I feel sorry for you poo owners as I once was one too but I gave up after all my 900 issues and the dealer (aka rmk727) I bought them from told me he would not take them back in on trade. After hearing all these poo post I guess it was for the better.
To rmk727 get your facts straight to all others thanks for letting me vent.
The first trip all I (09 xp owner) ever did was change a belt after I burnt one up pulling your a$$ out and I had to mess with the clickers because of the new belt. Also on the first trip day one we had three feet of powder, you and another poo owner had to go back to the lodge and work on your sleds. I think you even worked on yours the second morning too.
Second trip I had put a clucth kit in and was trying to find the correct pin weight. I ONLY CHANGED WEIGHTS IN MY CLUTCH AFTER THE DAYS RIDING WAS OVER. You were allways in bed when I worked on my sled.
The last trip you called me a day and a half before you were leaving. My sled was allready at the dealer because I thought I was done for the year. My sled was still very USEABLE. The head gasket was a very small leak of antifreeze on the exterior of head, it had been like that for 500 miles and I have not had to add antifreeze. The ecu was to reflash it so the temp and knock sensor were not so sincetive. Again the sled has been ridable with these minor issues.
I feel sorry for you poo owners as I once was one too but I gave up after all my 900 issues and the dealer (aka rmk727) I bought them from told me he would not take them back in on trade. After hearing all these poo post I guess it was for the better.
To rmk727 get your facts straight to all others thanks for letting me vent.
I shouldn't doo this but I have been goated into it by others; to dakota driftlipper if you had a brain; I wasn't (then) bashing you but was simply stating that ALL manufactures are not free of some problems. On the other hand not all problems are the fault of the manufacture either such as 80% of your 900 problems, that said was the poo 900 a huge success of course not it was not a great snowmobile but we gave you back every cent on your 05 towards your 06 and then sold it to you at cost, took all your internet goodies off and put the new belt on and it's running fine to this day, your 06 we did the same with ( removed all the stuff ) you would do the internet stuff but not listen to me. In fact that sled is liked by it's new owner and of course we would have taken it on trade but i believe you were one of these knot heads that wanted all your money back again then a free sled to boot those that know you know this to be true. We also are glad that you have gone away. I have always and will always ride with anyone and help anyone out , don't care what brand or color or size but i think I need to look for more intelligent guys to ride with.
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