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An actual new 2 Stroke Yamaha Snowmobile Engine (UPDATED)

christopher

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Serious rumors...

I am hearing a lot of background chatter about Yamaha designing and manufacturing a new 2 stroke motor for Arctic Cat.

This engine would NOT be coming out of the Snowmobile division of Yamaha, but out of the motorcycle side of the house.

I have no real details to offer other than it would be a contract production run by Yamaha exclusively for Arctic Cat to be used in their sleds utilizing Yamaha's existing patent's and certifications.

Anyone else heard anything about this??
 

ArcticChat

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They seem to agree with you...personally I don't think that it will happen since they have tech to meet emissions (dual stage injection) and a engine facility. The 600 they build seems to be a great success. It would be awesome if Yami built and offered a 2-smoker again tho!

http://supertraxmag.com/article.asp?nid=3026

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IS CAT'S NEXT 800 2-STROKE A YAMAHA?


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A couple of our readers were upset because I wrote a "“what if" story about Yamaha's YCCT engine being used in the Cat 7000 this year.

Apparently these "expert" commentators don't like us making assumptions about what could happen - they just want the facts.

Here's why we write stories like this: We have an incredible track record for being right! At this time of year we frankly don't know where the OEMs are going with new product.

No, surprisingly, they don't call us up and ask us what we would think about using "this engine in this chassis" or "do we think consumers would like a sled like thus or so?" I know - it's shocking, isn't it?

However, because we are well-known in the sno-mo-biz we do have a lot of inside info on what product planners may be thinking.

Our ability to guesstimate and opine about what may be coming has been pretty accurate over the years. It's one of the reasons Supertrax is the number one mag in the business and this website gets so much traffic.

We're not saying this is what WILL happen - it's just an educated "maybe".

So, here's our latest "what if": Suppose Arctic Cat wanted its newest engine to be a Yamaha direct injected 800 2-stroke.

Here's our defense of this pipe dream:

FACT 1.
Such an engine would get Yamaha into the 2-stroke mountain market immediately.

FACT 2.
An 800 DI engine would meet all EPA criteria for pollution in a category where it's very difficult to get certification.

FACT 3.
Cat already has an engine agreement with Yamaha and is going full speed ahead with it.

FACT 4.
It would save Cat zillions of dollars getting another 2-stroke certified.

FACT 5.
Yamaha would be a serious player in a category it hasn't had strength in for a decade.

FACT 6.
Yamaha owns 2-stroke DI technology (only one of two snowmobile OEMs who do) and isn't using it in the snowmobile business yet.

Even using this kind of logic, the fact is, we just don't know for sure.

Certainly it would make huge sense for Cat to come with a slot-injected 800 like the DSI 600 and not a DI Yamaha-built 800 twin. However, the resources are right there for the taking and it wouldn't be the first time Cat has taken a completely unexpected twist in the road and blown us away.

Just thought you guys would appreciate some facts.
 
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A
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I heard something about yamaha coming out with a 2 stroke sled, but I think it would also take a new chassis to dethrone the pro. Something narrow and light with a f--k ton of power and yamaha reliability.
 

christopher

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christopher

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Chris please tell us what you really know. Or maybe you can't just yet?
Honestly.
I have NO inside track with Yamaha on new development.
They are careful to keep me at arm's length knowing full well I like to share what I come across here on the forums, and that I am NOT willing to sign off on NDAs.

So I just LISTEN to all those around me.:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap
 

christopher

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I heard it has been in testing for a couple years now. 800 twin direct injected. Hopefully what we have heard is true Chris.

*Funny thing is, I didn't read the article before my post ^^^ So maybe it is true..
we KNOW that Yamaha has some VERY good 2-stroke technology that they COULD bring to bare if they had the right incentive.
 

christopher

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I heard something about yamaha coming out with a 2 stroke sled, but I think it would also take a new chassis to dethrone the pro. Something narrow and light with a f--k ton of power and yamaha reliability.
That is a DREAM we have all had for a very long time.
I honestly do not think there is ANY chance whatsoever of a Yamaha Branded/manufactured 2-stroke sled.
 

christopher

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http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/

February 10, 2016

Hey, Wait a Minute.

The guessing game continues. Thinking a little time spent reflecting on a business model might not be a bad thing right now. Hopefully this may help put things in perspective for those with expectations beyond the realm of feasibility.

At the start of the current millennium, Yamaha made the decision to go 4-stroke as a company, not as a single product group. The idea was born at a level far above my pay grade so I can only speculate on the details. Yamaha looked at the reality of the global marketplace considering all products; marine, motorcycle, power equipment, recreational vehicle (including snowmobile) and scooters. The conclusion – four stroke technology is the best overall direction for Yamaha to offer clean, reliable, fossil-fueled power to meet the needs of the immediate future.

I was in the room when this strategy was introduced to the snowmobile division. At the time I actually believed we had a choice in the matter (I know). Anyway, we debated the pros and cons with great fervour. The deal breaker came when engineering provided information indicating the 2-stroke snowmobile engine would not survive the second round of EPA emissions standards in the US. This was based on the technology available at the time. And so it was, we were down on all fours. Ooops.

For the most part however, the direction has proven correct and the emissions clock is still ticking on the snowmobile anomaly, but lets pretend for a moment, that we could hit the snooze button and propose developing a new hi-performance 2-stroke engine. The first challenge is to justify a return on investment. To design, develop, tool and manufacture an engine (any engine) costs billions of Yen (millions of dollars). The total cost is amortized to be recovered over a fixed period of time, generally a couple of years. The best way to secure the investment is by showing a potential sales volume capable of off-setting the costs in the short term thus providing reasonable profits further down the road. OK, I’ll go on record here as saying the snowmobile business is not showing a lot of growth these days. None of the manufacturers are raking in the dough selling sleds, in fact its a damn good thing we have all diversified manufacturing to produce other motor sports products. This trickles right down to our dealers where you wont find too many that can exist selling snowmobiles alone.

This relationship to producing other motor sports product along with snowmobiles is key. The best way to increase the production volume of an engine is to put it in more than one product. You don’t have to look too far in our industry to see the results. Our competitors have justified their 4-stroke development by sharing engines with SxS / ATV / squirt gun and motorcycle (even the ones with ‘training wheels’). It’s good business.
Yamaha has done this successfully for years and now it is a mandate. As a rule, our new engine development projects must have the ability to apply, at least in part, to more than one product group. Herein lies the quandary for new 2-stroke development. Where else could we apply a big two-stroke performance engine outside of snowmobile these days?

Before you jump all over me on this, think of the current markets. Look at personal watercraft, look at motorcycle (including dirt), look at ATV / SxS, look at outboard engines, (OK BRP is still trying but…). Point is – reliability, cost of operation, emissions, applications, warranty risk, longevity all out weigh (pun intended) the advantages of a 2-stroke in everything but snowmobiles, or so it would seem.

Now, all that said, I like 2-strokes. Always have – always will. When it comes to purchasing any of the above products, 4-strokes have clearly taken over. In my case, I own boats, ATV’s, motorcycles and they are all 4-strokes except for my old sleds and my beloved Husqvarna saw. One must concede – The future market for 2-strokes is not looking so good.

So, back to the business model: Mr Yamaha, we want to invest XX million dollars in developing a new 850 state-of-the-art, 2-stroke snowmobile engine. We plan to sell 12,000 over three years providing there is no change to emissions regulations under Mrs. Clinton and maybe you can make $200 profit each if we sell more. Oh, and we get slammed with a Polar Vortex every year during her term. And if you make a really good one – one that lasts as long as a four stroke, doesn’t burn any oil, get’s great fuel mileage, doesn’t go bang if it gets lean and accepts boost easily, we might be able to use it in another vehicle or two…

Wait, where are you goin?
cheers cr
 
I
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What an informative article. Never seen someone use so many words to say nothing.

I'll counter; Clinton is likely to receive the nomination from the Democratic Party but it would be an early surrender as she is unelectable. Yamaha could easily release a two stroke either in or out of compliance with epa regs because they have enough clean credits. It would make sense in a light weight utility platform such as the bravo.

icr
 
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BRP and Polaris don't give a crap about using the same motors in different machines.. and they don't seem to be doing too bad for themselves..
This just goes to show how unwilling Yamaha is to get into the snowmobile game and take control, like they most certainly can. Hopefully I'm proven wrong come March 1st... But I kinda doubt it.
 

christopher

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I think there IS in fact a new 2 stroke engine coming from Yamaha.
What I do NOT know is if it will be in a Yamaha sled or not...
 
B

BigFish BC

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I think there IS in fact a new 2 stroke engine coming from Yamaha.
What I do NOT know is if it will be in a Yamaha sled or not...

they would not make it if they couldnt use it & ac would not absorb the cost themselfs.
seems to be to many hints out there to be just a rumer & if you read through the blog he drops hints all the time,said its a 850cc 2 stroke.:face-icon-small-ton
 
T

Turbo11T

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I think it will be something revolutionary. Things like a rotary engine come to mind or a hybrid 4/2 stroke. The only thing people hate about the 4 stroke is the weight. So figure out how to build a 4 stroke as light or very close. With direct injection could it be possible that no crankcase volume is needed?


Things like, doesn’t burn any oil, doesn’t go bang if it gets lean and accepts boost easily
 
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