Is the Diamond drive the best drive system?

Einar74 · Nov 3, 2012

After reading about the possible problems with the Polaris belt drive.
(It is suppose to be weak regarding "shock loads" so it is not bulletproof under all conditions. I guess no system is, but you know what I mean)

It got me thinking if the Diamond drive where maybe after all the best drive system. I have only experienced it in a 05 M7. But it has been 100% trouble free and when I have maintained it and took it part it is always like new so I just close it back up and put new oil in it.

I know many say that the DD from 05-06 m7 is the best, maybe it is
07-08 M8 had mechanical reverse and it may have been fairly weak. what sled drive system with mechanical reverse isn´t
09-11. I Think have been very reliable, aside from one time bearing upgrade that is a easy fix.
So I ask myself and other members on this forum way in the world did Arctic Cat stop using it.
Even in a chain drive the chain is the weak link. DD is wheels mechanically locked together. what can be stronger then that.

I know some will say with a chain drive you can play with gear radios more easily than with a DD. But I guess less then 5% of sledders change gear radios.

thanks for reading

Putzy · Nov 3, 2012

I agree. I've had several sleds with the diamond drive, which I've had zero problems with. Other than changing the bearing in my 2010 as preventative maintenance. I pulled it apart every season and cleaned it out and changed the oil. I thought it made a lot of sense to eliminate the jackshaft.

arctic2009 · Nov 3, 2012

I liked the diamond drive too, for ease of changing tracks. Although it seemed like they couldn't get good quality bearings for production. They were always falling apart. I think they ultimately went away with it because it was heavier than the new chain case design, but not 100% on that one.

iluv2fly · Nov 3, 2012

The chain system has got to be heavier than the diamond drive. There is nothing to that system.

arctic2009 · Nov 3, 2012

iluv2fly said:
The chain system has got to be heavier than the diamond drive. There is nothing to that system.

The whole case itself with the gears is pretty heavy. Plus all the bearings in it, and the new chain case is made of magnesium.

av8er · Nov 3, 2012

the CMX drive system is the best

it's $2500 but it's bullet proof

Wildcat Willy · Nov 3, 2012

Have my DD out right now, it's heavy. Planetary gear sets are tough, but out of chain/belt/planetary they are the least efficient (less of the HP from the engine getting to the track). Belt drive is the most effiecient and lightest. I was in the Polaris booth at the sled show while everyone was hovering around Burandt last weekend and was asking the reps about the belt drives. They said last spring Burandt came up short on a creek jump, hit hard snow with the throttle taped to the bars, and it stripped off a few of the belt teeth and he rode it out. Chain drive in the same situation would have piled the chain and possibly split the case, no riding it out and more expensive to fix. DD maybe nothing, maybe another part of the drive would let go. So which is best? What are you after? Looking at all the parts on my sled I don't think bulletproof and trouble free is the priority.

TheBreeze · Nov 3, 2012

IMO it's both good and bad. 07-08 suck, and the others are decent.

richardderkevorkian · Nov 3, 2012

Rmi gear drive is absolutely bulletproof. Had one behind a cutler 1150 for six years and have done nothingbut change oil

ezra · Nov 3, 2012

biggest reason they went away from DD was money dont think they wanted to pay BDX for the right to use with a long contract again.
I think it is a good system. best part it keeps all the weight low
U can swap tracks in about 1 hr by your self
not hard to keep in working order
pull apart 1 time a yr good to go what is a 5 pinion gear 160 bucks? from BDX chump change so U put one in every 2k big whoop.
but I must say I always brought a back up DD on all trips more than 2 hr from home.I never needed it but I did have it to sell to a guy who needed one that was 14 hrs from home and he was singing zippity do daa that I had one and helped him slap it in in about 35min in the parking lot.
ever try to put in a new chain case in in a parking lot after a chain lets go at 6000rpm not going to happen.

arctic2009 · Nov 3, 2012

ezra said:
biggest reason they went away from DD was money dont think they wanted to pay BDX for the right to use with a long contract again.

Not bashing you or anything like that, but where did you get that BDX owns the diamond drive? Not saying this isn't the case, I'm just wondering where you heard this? If it was a BDX design wouldn't it be called a BDX diamond drive and not an ACT Drive? and if BDX had a contract with them, why wouldn't BDX be machining the cases for the case instead of TEAM. TEAM is still machining all the cases for the diamond drive in the older cat models that still use it like the f570 and bearcat. Again Im not bashing you or saying you are wrong, just wondering where this info came from.

Coldfinger · Nov 4, 2012

My understanding is that BDX, designed the original DD and a few years later Arctic Cat took over. Not sure about contracts or Patent issues and what may have been negotiated there.

I think the DD is a good idea. I'd like to see someone test the efficiency of power transfer compared to chain or belt. I'm guessing belt is more efficient but by how much? While they're at it, maybe compare component weights of DD vs the other two.

fasta76 · Nov 4, 2012

TheBreeze said:
IMO it's both good and bad. 07-08 suck, and the others are decent.

I have over 10,000km on my 07 DD without an issue!! Just change the oil twice a year and do a complete check over in the off season!!

m8magicandmystery · Nov 4, 2012

my 07 drive i just took apart...again...and as always in great shape..!!!

To me the Diamond Drive has the BEST POTENTIAL for being the strongest and most reliable drive.....period.

ezra · Nov 4, 2012

arctic2009 said:
Not bashing you or anything like that, but where did you get that BDX owns the diamond drive? Not saying this isn't the case, I'm just wondering where you heard this? If it was a BDX design wouldn't it be called a BDX diamond drive and not an ACT Drive? and if BDX had a contract with them, why wouldn't BDX be machining the cases for the case instead of TEAM. TEAM is still machining all the cases for the diamond drive in the older cat models that still use it like the f570 and bearcat. Again Im not bashing you or saying you are wrong, just wondering where this info came from.

BDX did invent the DD and did have a contract for right to use not sure on how many yrs but that is what went down.
rummer had it yamaha was talking with BDX last yr.
I think the first time I was told about BDX and the DD deal was from Rorrey he worked for cat and black majic he was telling us about the drive in like 02

crossfire879 · Nov 4, 2012

The diamond drive is great! I have had my track and diamond drive off so many times this summer trying different things out. It's so easy. If I had to do that everytime with a chain case I think I would quit the sport lol. 7 or 8 nuts ( and in my case a reverse lever and one wiring harness) and The whole thing comes out. Doesn't get much easier than that. Plus you could get a complete unit gears an all from bdx for dirt cheap. They are super strong and easy to maintain. I love the diamond drive. It doesn't answer the question but just thought I would share how awesome it is. It is a little heavy but I don't care about that.

makaio · Nov 4, 2012

Coldfinger said:
I think the DD is a good idea. I'd like to see someone test the efficiency of power transfer compared to chain or belt. I'm guessing belt is more efficient but by how much? While they're at it, maybe compare component weights of DD vs the other two.

In automobile engines belt drive is most efficient for valve trains, followed by chain/gears, then gear drive. Each system has it plusses and minuses.

Einar74 · Nov 6, 2012

After going through the comments I thing I have come to a conclusion.

Maybe belt drive is more efficient. But not as strong as a gear driven drive.
It don´t know about you guys, but I would rather get the sled home without problem then be broken down somewhere in the backcountry. Even if it cost my couple HP.
Thinking about the efficient part. I don´t know way belt is better then gears. If we look at motorcycles, Ducati has some kind of gear drive for there valvetrain and Aprilia used gear driven cams in World Superbikes over the last couple years but where banned to use it this year because the road version of there superbike didn´t have it.

Also I think Arctic Cat didn´t stop using it because the sleds didn´t put enough power to the ground.
Anyway, I think I maybe sticking to my 2011 m8 that I recently bought longer then I had planed :smile:

Brett Slagle · Nov 6, 2012

Here are my thoughts:

1. DD's are great if you keep them up - just like most mechanical things.
2. If you don't change your oil every 1000 miles in a DD, you're going to blow it if you hadn't already.
3. If you don't change your chaincase oil every 1000 miles, you have less of a chance of blowing it.
4. Most sledders neglect their sleds.
5. It's normal for manufacturers to offer a 2 year warranty.
6. Most people ride about 800 miles a season. Some ride 2,000+ a season.
7. This leads to a significant portion of new sleds with a drive train that's a ticking time bomb because their owner is pull and go all year and drop off at the dealer at the end of the season.
8. Because of this, Cat experienced an overwhelming amount of warranty claims for down DDs. Off the top of my head, I know of at least 25 warranty DD's from 05-11 from my neglectful pull and go buddies.
9. 09-11 DD had the bearing issue, that led to several more down units, many under warranty.
10. I don't know details, but I know DD's were designed by BDX and Cat has to pay money to licence that technology.
11. My guess is that Cat dropped the DD because the cost associated with 8, 9 and 10 simply became a fiscal burden.

All theory, but likely the case. For me, I LOVE having a DD. I've logged an absurd amount of miles on them without issue. I am also one that services my drives routinely. I think a DD is superior to a chaincase. Whether it's superior to a production belt drive will be determined this season. My gut feeling is that a belt driven drive train is the future. I know that the drive train on the 12 and 13 Cats is not the future.

Brett

Goin For Snow · Nov 7, 2012

I am a fan.

didnt the DD rights end up in the yammie camp?

Is the Diamond drive the best drive system?

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