Figured out lighting on the Hawks

ozzydog · Mar 1, 2009

I have been messing around with the lighting on both of my machines for the past two winters. This past winter I have been working with a fellow that does all the lighting for emergency vehicles in Orgeon. He originally sold me an LED that I fit into the original Hawk housing, (with a bit of modification of course). Well needless to say I burnt it out within two days out. I notifyed John in Oregon, he sent me another light free of charge. He ended up sending me 3 units in all. We finally nailed it. We fouund what they call a "Headlight voltage regulator" wired it in line and what do you know it works. This particular LED is super, super, super bright. It also has twenty five different functions, steady on, and the rest are different forms of blinking. Not a needed item I know. But kind of cool.
Since then John has sent me a ProtoType of another light with a built in regulator. It also fits into the factory housing with a bit of modification. It is super bright also.
I know the factory voltage regulator can be replaced, and that it often shorts out on the frame. Been there done that. But the problem with the Hawk voltage regulation system has flaws. Way too much output, with way too much fluxuation.
Putting in a Headlight regulator solves the problem. But using the original headlights still put out way too much heat, causing meltdown over a period of time. Using the LED's, heat problem solved.
PM me if you are interested and I will forward John's info on to you and tell you where to get the headlight voltage regulator.

Goodspeed · Mar 3, 2009

Hey ozzydog,

Why not post you LED idea on the thread for all to see?? (no pun intended), you might be surprised what ideas others might add, plus I'd "love" to get some LED regulated & vibration proof lights installed..........

off road rider · Mar 3, 2009

Ill show you mine..

If you show me yours...Hey I think I remember saying that to the gal down the street..
Anyways, here is a new led that we are just about to introduce.
Its a 10 watt draw 800 lumens 5000K post, bar or helmet mount
50,000 hrs diode life. you can clip them together and run as many as you see fit.
LEDs are getting better , but still not even close (in light output) to the current hids that are available..

off road rider · Mar 3, 2009

hmmm. I cant figure out how to post any photos.. the BB code will not allow me to cut and paste the link.
any suggestions???

snowhawkaddict · Mar 3, 2009

Try

Mozilla Firefox.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

Goodspeed · Mar 3, 2009

Hey Off Road Rider,

I "Love" your "HID" Helmet Light! After seeing your demo at Hawkfest 09, there was no question this was the light I'd was looking for. You see the ads and all the hippe, and conclude you must see the goods at night to be sure. Yep, it's "bright", turns where you look and it's here to stay.......Great light..good price too....

-With that being said I am now wanting to upgrade my Stock Hawk lights with something "Vibration Proof", which leaves two choices, HID's or LED's. LED's are the perfect backpacking light but am not convinced they are bight enough for a main light, could very well be. Need to see a video or better in real time (like Hawkfest) to be sold. You saw how fast I pulled for the wallet after you turned your 30 Watt Helmet HID on.......I had no idea they were that good.
-How does the LED compare????
-Equally important; I'm very interested in getting "proper" regulated voltage for the lights and other farkles................

Searching........

-SnowHawk Medical Disclaimer:
If you experience an erection lasting more than 80 miles, congratulations; you're normal.

off road rider · Mar 3, 2009

A few of us at Hawkfest where looking at a wiring schematic of the hawk 600.
From what I understand there is DC power available at the engine management system.. Rude Awakening had the pdf of that.
We need to test this for sure..Anyone with a hawk near seattle game???
LEDs use very little power.. Our new light, that I cant seem to get posted. Is a 10 watt led
It is impressive for only pulling 10 watts.
To put that in perspective the next gen led is 800 lumens..And is the most powerful single led on the market. the 30 watt HID is 1900 lumens.. a large difference..
Another factor in lighting you dont hear about to often is Kelvin temp..
Thats a whole different ball game.. and very important..
stay away from lights that are over 6K
Theres other good stuff out there as well.. lets see your lights...

ozzydog · Mar 3, 2009

Contact for LED lighting on the Hawks.

Ok Guys here is the contact info for your LED lighting on the Hawks. Email me or call me if you need tips or info. for installation. I will post some pics and a video if I can on mine when I ride next.
I do not think you will be dissapointed. Point in case is the HID will be brighter, but they do run hotter. I chose the Led's because the kept the stock look and are actually quite bright.
Anyways if you want some help on install or getting the Headlight Voltage regulators contact me. You will need the Headlight Voltage regulator either way. I can get them locally, (Redmond WA.) and send them on. They sometimes take up to two weeks to get here.

LED lighting Contact:
John Moore

President

www.autoadditions.com

www.patrolpower.com

503-393-3910 (V) 503-393-7265 (F) 503-991-7240 (C)

Email him at : John Moore [John@autoadditions.com]

As far as the Headlight Voltage Regulators are concerned:
The Supplier is K&L supply. You can go online and check them out, but they only sell thru distributors. Find a distributor in your area, get them to look in the catalog

and find the Headlight Voltage Regulator, there is only one listed in their catalog, and away you go. If you have a problem contact me and I will get you one. They run around $21.00

Harley
360-961-5747
Email: geoduck1@comcast.net

Goodspeed · Mar 3, 2009

Good websites,

Do you have a Part No. for the LED lights? Or because it's Hawk specific,do we need to talk with John Moore? There are many LED's on the site.

-Also a Part No. for the Regulator? I'm sure they have many of those as well.

thanks......

off road rider · Mar 4, 2009

I dont see any info on lumens, Kelvin or anything else thats important for forward lighting..Can we get that info??
there are only a few leds that are capable of forward light throw.. most are extreemly bright to look at. but do not offer much light to ride with..
very interested to see some video from the riders perspective.

Goodspeed · Mar 4, 2009

50 Watt LED Light, HID brightness

How about this 50 Watt LED Star with 3500 Lumens?

That's bighter then HID...........it is 35v though, just need a power supply and up the voltage.

LED Specifications :

Basic Opto Characteristics

Flux: Min.3030,Typ.3200LM, Max.3500LM(Q1 Bin)
Forward Voltage: Min.22.0V, Typ.24.5V, Max.27.5V
DC Forward Current: 2400mA
Reaction time: 100ns
CCT : 5,000K-10,000K
Viewing Angle : 120 degree
Absolute Maximum Ratings

DC Forward Current: 2400mA
Peak Pulse Current: 5000mA
Reverse Voltage: 35V
Forward Voltage: 35V
Junction Temperature: 125℃
Substrate Temperature: 100℃
Operating Temperature: -30℃ ~ +60℃
Storage Temperature: -40℃ ~ +60℃
ESD Sensitivity: 500V
Manual Soldering Time at 400℃(Max.): 5sec.

Goodspeed · Mar 4, 2009

Forgot the link:

http://www.hero-ledstore.com/50w-co...tar-3500-lumens-from-taiwan-edison-p-220.html

Price: 179 clams

off road rider · Mar 4, 2009

lumens are measured differently for different types of light sources.
lumens for lights that provide lighting for say a factory or home are one thing.
ANSI lumens are used for measuring lights that provide forward lighting.. such as headlights projectors etc.. a very different measurement of light.
now add a lens to that 50 watt led and it will probably work ok..
when you add up a bunch of smaller lights, be that led, hid or halogen you do not get a progressive build up of light power. penetration will be better for a single higher powered unit.

Goodspeed · Mar 4, 2009

All points back to the HID helmet light doesn't it? You've got to try though and perhaps in a few years they will have something. I read that Audi and BMW are coming out with LED headlights either this or next year.....
-I have been in contact with a Techical person at K&L supply in regards too a Headlight Voltage Regulator the same one Harley is using. Harley swares this thing works. Before our Hawks were varying anywhere from 4 volts to 19 volts, this is why our headlights are burning out. This regulator stablizes the voltage at 14.1 volts, P.N. 20-1490, price $19.99 from Moto-Services.net.
http://www.moto-services.net/search.php
Hook the power wire to the bike side of the headlight plug and the ground wire to the frame...thanks Harley.
-Does the Cyclops Helmet light work well with the stock Hawk with voltage spikes up to 19 volts?

off road rider · Mar 4, 2009

man thats a big catalog.. I didnt get to view the headlight reg.. but is it an reg/ rec..?? the stock hawk headlights are ac.. correct me if Im wrong.
The Solstice/scmr16 will handle from 9vDC up to 24vDC they would also require a battery or capacitor.

Goodspeed · Mar 5, 2009

The Headlight Voltage Regulator is on page 257 of the K&L Supply Catalog, lower right hand corner. It is for non battery applications and removes the light flickers and stabilizes the voltage. Works on 12V DC & AC, and is basically a capacitor with a voltage control.

----------------------------------------
Here is what the descriptions says:
Solid state voltage regulator works on 12V A/C headlights. Provides maximum light brilliance without blown bulbs. Easy two wire installation. Note; Yellow to hot (+) and Brown / case to ground (-).
20-1490 Headlight Voltage Regulator
----------------------------------------
K&L (Joey) is working right now getting me the specs. which I'll attach when received. I also ordered one.
I'll try contacting:
Regulatorrectifier.com at http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/
and www.electrosport.com/street/stators.php for advice. Both specialize in Motorcycle Stators and Regulators.

Quote for Electrosport:

Motorcycles with batteries must convert the AC power from the stator into DC. In order to do this, the power coming from the stator must be converted by a regulator/rectifier. The rectifier actually converts the power from AC to DC, while the regulator keeps the power level (voltage) from going above the 13.8 -14.5 volts needed to power a standard 12 volt battery. It is important that the stator provides more power than needed by the motorcycle so that the battery will stay charged. If the motorcycle uses more power than the stator can provide, the battery will start to drain. This will typically happen if the voltage drops below 13 volts.

With all this being said Ozzydog said 20-1490 works "very" well and "is" the fix for the Hawk with stock lighting...........

I still want HID's so i'm going to investgate further, but for now I'm using this regulator, in addition 20-1490 is a "Regulator" and i'm assuming the hawk has a rectifier installed after the stator.

http://www.klsupply.com/ Contact Joey ext 235 800-727-6767

off road rider · Mar 5, 2009

I hope you dont think Im trying to sell you anything..Just info.
your hawk headlights are ac.. from what I understand there is regulated dc available at the mapps?.
be very cautious of using electrosport regs or recs.. you might want to do a bit of research on KTM talk.. I used to be a dealer,not anymore. take it for what it is..

Goodspeed · Mar 5, 2009

I agree with you and have heard the same thing in regards to the DC voltage at the Mapps (computer). I too am not changing anything (new regulator from the Stator) untill I completely understand the stock regulator.
-However the 20-1490 is at the "End" of the line, Regulating the voltage there "will" not affect the computer voltage only the headlight and forward. (Harley wants to add one at the tailight as well) Well in my case i'm also going to use it for my heated grips and Vapor Speedo, in this way I'll have stable voltage for them too. The 20-1490 is rated at 225 Watts, so I might even put a fuse block at the power side (20-1490 reg) for accessories as noted......I like fuses.....Remember you use fuses to protect the machine and not your devise......
-You would think a simple call to AD Bovin asking how to add a battery would solve this problem???

off road rider · Mar 5, 2009

Goodspeed said:
I agree with you and have heard the same thing in regards to the DC voltage at the Mapps (computer). I too am not changing anything (new regulator from the Stator) untill I completely understand the stock regulator.
-However the 20-1490 is at the "End" of the line, Regulating the voltage there "will" not affect the computer voltage only the headlight and forward. (Harley wants to add one at the tailight as well) Well in my case i'm also going to use it for my heated grips and Vapor Speedo, in this way I'll have stable voltage for them too. The 20-1490 is rated at 225 Watts, so I might even put a fuse block at the power side (20-1490 reg) for accessories as noted......I like fuses.....Remember you use fuses to protect the machine and not your devise......
-You would think a simple call to AD Bovin asking how to add a battery would solve this problem???

I would think adding a small nmhd battery would solve all the issues,provided:
1. If indeed there is dc available.

2. your not robing the needed dc from the mapps.

3. if the dc power available will run the headlights tail lights , mapp etc.and keep the battery charged.

but now you have moved your headlights from the ac circuit to a unknown dc circuit.

Typically when doing a reg/rec swap you have to add a battery or cap.. or the reg/rec will fri in a very short time.. Or you float the ground in the stator...I could go on and on..
It sounds like Harley has the easiest setup to keep the bulbs from popping with limited light output. I would really like to see some video/photo from a riders perspective..

Goodspeed · Mar 5, 2009

-There is voltage "Right Now" going to the headlights......you are not robbing it.

-Are you sure Headlights and Taillights AC powered?

-Once again all your doing in the 20-1490 is basically installing a Capacitor and electronics to take the spikes out of the voltage, heck a battery is a "Capacitor". I can see your point on floating the ground, but this thing is pretty darn simple. I bought mine for 14 bucks, what in it that floats the ground???

Figured out lighting on the Hawks

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