'08 M1000 Bog and other stuff - For reference (no luck yet on bog)

Just thought I'd chime in here to let those of us still trying to fix our bog what I have done so far. None of which has worked. I included a few other things just FYI if anyone is searching around.

Sled is bone stock '08 M1000 Sno Pro 153
Elevation is 0-5000 feet
Fuel is Plain Jane 87 octane regular - non-oxygenated (cat claims this fuel is 4% richer than state side fuel)
Location - South Central Alaska

This machine runs great on the top end (subjective) but the clutches get hot and IMO it doesn't back shift like it should. Belt life is approximately 300 miles of hard riding (060 belt). The bog comes in at about 4000 RPM + or - 200 rpm. If I hold the throttle in a position that allows the sled to slow down and stop, the engine will flat out die. Every time. (I've only tried this when the engine was warm) Others with the bog should try this test and report back if their bogger does the same please.

Changes in 07/08 Season
Installed SLP can - saved 8 lbs. No effect on bog
Sealed around exhaust to belly pan fit - no effect on bog
Installed BDX air intake - No effect on bog, really noisy. Removed BDX intake and sealed up all the holes I drilled in the belly pan. Installed skid plate.
Opened up stock air box inlet to 4" - No effect on bog
Installed BDX rear bumper kit and a generic LED tail light - no effect on bog (I have heard that on stock sleds that the power valves wont work if the factory tail light burns out)
Checked belt deflection - within factory spec
Changed belt deflection both ways - no effect on bog
Changed from 060 belt to 046 belt - no effect on bog, rpms increased, belt life went down.
Modified rear axle for 2 wheel "kit" - no problems so far (500 hard miles)
Installed boss high rise seat with shovel pouch - comfy, and an actual 8 lb loss, but seat is tearing at bottom edge where my boot rubs it.


Changes in 08/09 Season
Checked fuel pressure - 45 psi
Dropped fuel pressure to 42 psi - no effect on the bog, does seem to run better. Haven't had it in the mountains for a real test though. Definitely did not fix the bog.
Dropped the fuel pressure to 41 psi - no perceptible change
Re-routed barometric pressure tube from behind air box/low belly pan area to straight back along the side of the oil reservoir. - No effect on bog.
Checked oil injection ratio - Factory set at 39:1



A few search terms:
Bog, Bogging, Bogged, Died, dies, dying, Fuel, Pressure, Ratio,

Wow, sounds like you've covered all the bases. I have an 08 M10 and don't have any bog (knock on wood). Can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have one that doesn't run right. Wish I had an answer for ya. I think I'd start with the fuel mapping. Ask your dealer to reflash to 09 if they can???
Could it be a clutching issue? I hate the way mine has no bottom end. After the 900 1M this things a dog. Looking at changing the gearing in it. Don't think I've been much help but good luck with it.

i hate to say this - but i have the BOG too. though mine is at 5000 rpm and in mid throttle position. It had it stock, with just can, with SLP pipe set, with SLP pipe set and can, tried dialing it out with BD box. CAN't.

checked fuel pressure - 43psi
dialed fuel up and down wher bog was pressent - still bogs
tried ever percievable situation where bog can be changed, won't go away.

Sled runs like a straped ape. Tons of bottom, RIGHT now throttle respone, climbs like a billy goat, kick-*** suspension, the ONLY complaint (well two actually) is this damn mid-range BOG at 5000 rpm and that it likes to eat belts.

i've tried everything tried above with no luck. I can't get rid of the bog either.

it's not that noticable most of the time, just mainly on trail and only at that one load/rpm.

Bullcamp said:

Wow, sounds like you've covered all the bases. I have an 08 M10 and don't have any bog (knock on wood). Can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have one that doesn't run right. Wish I had an answer for ya. I think I'd start with the fuel mapping. Ask your dealer to reflash to 09 if they can???
Could it be a clutching issue? I hate the way mine has no bottom end. After the 900 1M this things a dog. Looking at changing the gearing in it. Don't think I've been much help but good luck with it.

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I'm still holding out for the new updated fuel map I guess, but I dont have much hope. Cat can blame the EPA all they want but they should have done their homework before BEFORE releasing the product. I've always loved cat products and have supported them for a long time, but this may be my last cat product for a while.

I need to make one more trip to the mountains on the current setup, but after that Im going to gear down to M8 gears. Next on the list will be an A/F monitor and a boondocker box. Might as well go ahead and get an SLP Pipe at that point.

Is the TPS adjustable on these?

Is anyone running egts, I have the koso fast prob egts, no bog though, but it might show high or low temps where the bog is and then you would know where to add or take fuel. D&D shift assist helps with the down shift in the secondary. If it is a clutching issue, you might see if anyone without a bog would let you borrow clutches just for a test. felt a very slight bog once or twice on my 09, it was loading up a tiny bit on the bottom and the belt was hot and grabbed to fast without all the power there, not enough to be concerned more like a split second delay.

Had a chat with Catsledman1 on the phone yesterday. He has geared down several M-series cats. The one common denominator being that they all come geared to high. He mentioned the bog disappearing on an M7 that had been geared down. Might be worth a try to get rid of the bog. Sounds like at the very least it would help your sleds performance. Catseld suggested using 56/64 in the M10, he's gone lower but feels that is a good ratio to compromise torque with getting down the trail. He has 55/65 in his m8 and says they're plenty low. Doesn't even sound like they're that hard to change out. Going to be my next project.

A few things I have observed are:
Loose belt deflection causes a small bog off idle.
I installed a CPC torsional kit and played with adjustment a few rides and noticed a bog when deflection was loose.
If in spec, belt slightly squeels, but performs better.
Primary has plenty of sheeve clearance.
Only time I bog is after a long pull then stop and idle... Never very bad, and hitting the flipper it goes away.
BUT, I added some holes to my custom intake under the hood, and the bog got slightly worse.
Muffler outlet is not sealed, and it seemed to be related... Low ground speed and bog seems worse, definately getting exhaust under hood and never noticed big until I added underhood intake holes.

I know on my F-7 I had a bog like most others... Went to a slightly stiffer primary spring, raised engagement about 200rpm and bog went away.

I realize that a lot of people have experimented and found that the things I have noticed made no difference.

bog

im not sure i can help ya much but i have an 07 m1000 and it has been doing the same thing as your all year using alot of oil bottom end bog i was at the point you are wanting to get rid of it but i took it to ovs and had travis and garr look at it and they messed with my fuel box and lowered my fuel pressure and i rode it at there place and it ripped! so i took it out and it was running good for the first 15 minutes then started that bog again so i took my sled to the dealer and had them check the computer to see if was throwing codes sure enough it was the air intake sensor and the exhaust temp sensor that hooks in the pipe.. well i changed them and i adjusted my oil and sure enough it fixed it my sled rips now this is a suggestion but i would take it to your dealer and see if it throwing the same codes as mine was and if it is i think your problem is solved!!!

I forgot to mention that I swapped out the ECU with another from a brand new one off a sled just out of the crate. No positive effect, maybe even worse.

My bog on the 09 showed up after about 100-150 miles , reset belt deflection tighter and it eliminated it. The bog and a little belt squeel seemed to show up at the same time. Also a new belt rather than changing deflection also eliminated the bog. This is just in my case, not saying it will work for others , but an easy thing to try. The 046 should lower your rpms as its a softer belt, never seen one increase rpms. I want to say the 150-200 miles on the 060 belt made it about .010-.018 narrower than a new belt. Engagement also got harder as belt got narrower. Not much but enuff to notice or hear the clunk sometimes. My bog was only from a dead stop as well, wether off idle pinch or bringing it up to engagement then pinchinher. Never from a roll

SANDBAGGER said:

My bog on the 09 showed up after about 100-150 miles , reset belt deflection tighter and it eliminated it. The bog and a little belt squeel seemed to show up at the same time. Also a new belt rather than changing deflection also eliminated the bog. This is just in my case, not saying it will work for others , but an easy thing to try. The 046 should lower your rpms as its a softer belt, never seen one increase rpms. I want to say the 150-200 miles on the 060 belt made it about .010-.018 narrower than a new belt. Engagement also got harder as belt got narrower. Not much but enuff to notice or hear the clunk sometimes. My bog was only from a dead stop as well, wether off idle pinch or bringing it up to engagement then pinchinher. Never from a roll

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I think you are backwards Sandbagger, I think the 060 is a softer compound, and it is the one that lowers the rpm. Just what I have seen and heard.

When tuning my twin pipes, I noticed my egt's were off by ~200 degrees after I adjusted my fuel pressure to 40psi and used a fuel programmer that was working correctly. I was also getting the midrange bog. I checked the power valve cables and noticed the PTO side was loose. Once I corrected this, adjusting the Mag and PTO sides to the same specs, my egt's were running within ~30 degrees of eachother and helped out with the tuning significantly. I ended up burning the PTO side down, but that was nitrous related and not using good enough fuel.

bog

another thing to try my 07 m1000 has been doing this bog all year so i took to ovs travis looked at it and made some adjustments and it still had the bog so i took to an arctic cat dealer and had them check the computer to see if it eas throwing any codes and it was throwing a air intake sensor code and a exhaust sensor that goes in the pipe so i replaced them and sure enough fixed the bog... if your sled is throwing codes the motor will put itself an a safe mode so you can burn the sled down and will cause it to bog.. this fixed mine give it a try if ya havent...

On 2009/1/30 I geared down to M8 gears. Sled feels more responsive and has better bottom end. No change as far as clutching goes. Still pulls the same RPM as before. No complaints, no major improvements either. Might like it better once we get in spring snow that has some traction. Can't say it was worth the 200 bones yet. Two mountain rides on these gears so far. no effect on the bog.

On 2009/1/31 my computer started throwing codes. An 07 and a 17. (07 is TPS and 17 is EGT) The sled didn't really run any worse than normal but I took it to the dealer anyway. The dealer and I swapped out the ECU again, still threw codes. I ended up finding an open circuit in the EGT wire so the dealer swapped it out and we fired up the sled. No codes. He soldered it up the open circuit so I could test ride it. That cleared both codes and the sled was back to "normal", but I couldn't make it die at will anymore. Before this I could make it die at will by letting off the throttle just enough that the sled would come to a stop. Good news!

2009/2/6 Before I left the dealer I purchased a D&D Barker adjustable can. Installed it in the low back pressure position.

2009/2/7 Sled ran good for a while but after an hour or so the sled started to feel like I was fouling plugs, so I increased the back pressure a bit. Plugs cleaned up and sled ran good. All in all the sled ran better than ever, but it still dies once in a while if I don't feather the throttle and it still bogs. My plugs are still dark brown so I'm going to adjust the fuel pressure down half a pound and play with the adjustable back pressure some more.

Today I searched for more broken wires or shorts to no avail. I added some more wire loom, used some hot glue, and added a bunch more zip ties in an effort to prevent more broken wires. I also re-installed my BDX intake as the D&D can is so loud the noise from the intake is a non-issue. Its ear plugs from here on out. I've sealed up all the holes I drilled last year, (for the intake) and installed a skid plate, so the intake will be taking in hot air. I may have to go back to the stock intake. With all the water crossings and water skipping we do, holes in the belly pan are not your friend.

BTW, the broken EGT wire was 100% a manufacturing assembly problem. The zip tie they used wore through the wiring. Check yours to make sure its not happening to you! It was the zip tie by the weather-pack connector on the egt wire, down below the coolant bottle. The zip tie needs to be up on the secondary rubber insulation, not down on the two little wires. Also you might want to cut the zip tie on the sensor itself and carefully take the big kink out of it, then zip tie it to the exhaust valve cables. My dealer reports that some customers sleds have had problems with the wires breaking at the "kink".

Per the above recommendation I lengthened the throttle cable today. Haven't taken the sled out yet, will report back if that helped.

2/10/09
I lengthened out the throttle cable last night. Sled still dies, hard to say on the bog as I have not ridden the sled in the mountains to really test it. I just rode the sled back and forth to work today.

Working on sealing the hood to tub fit to keep all the snow out of the engine compartment. Exhaust is already air tight where the can goes through the tub. Installed frog skinz vent covers on the 4 front hood vents. Im still getting snow between the hood and tub at the hinge.

Next step is to swap the egt wire from my wifes M8 and see if the sled still dies. After that I will test the plug wires, change plugs again, and some of the other sensors.

Anyone know what the stator output is, and/or have a procedure for checking it?

Wtf?

bgreen776 said:

BTW, the broken EGT wire was 100% a manufacturing assembly problem. The zip tie they used wore through the wiring. Check yours to make sure its not happening to you! It was the zip tie by the weather-pack connector on the egt wire, down below the coolant bottle. The zip tie needs to be up on the secondary rubber insulation, not down on the two little wires. Also you might want to cut the zip tie on the sensor itself and carefully take the big kink out of it, then zip tie it to the exhaust valve cables. My dealer reports that some customers sleds have had problems with the wires breaking at the "kink".

.

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EXACT same thing with my '07 M1000 ! WTF? WHERE is the quality control with CAT? I can't believe all the mysterious "issues" we're having with these Cats! Eating belts, BOG, this problem, wimpy DD etc... NEVER had these problems with my last 5 Poos. <sigh>

-Jeff

Part of the bog problem on my 09 m1000 seems to be from the oil pump sticking, If I don't let the throttle snap it will bog when I get back on it. Seems to be where most of the bog I've experienced comes from. Checking it in the shop it always sticks if not snapped.

Nobody makes perfect sleds, even poo.

The true test of a company is whether they stand behind their product. Right now Cat is dropping the ball.

Back to the threads original topic.

I don't think I mentioned this before: The ECU on this sled is a Square.

I swapped the EGT from Mollys M8 tonight and went for a ride around the house. Bog might actually be worse than before, hard to say, but the sled still dies, maybe even more. Temps are about 20* higher than the other day. Hmmm... I wonder if the air box sensors are the same part number, I bet they are... Maybe I'll try that next. I'll take a look at the oil pump, or maybe just do the BDX oil injection delete.

I just checked the RV Sports website, the part numbers are the same.

I was told by boondockers today that the 2007-2008 ecu is what is causingthe problems they also said that there should b a re-flash comming out soon. Has anyone else heard this because i find it hard to belive it has taken this long to create a re-flash for 2007-2008.