Supertorquer 'Central Roller Mass' Swing Arms

tollen77 · Dec 4, 2008

Read an article in Snowtech regarding these new arms and have to say I'm intrigued. The idea is that the rollers are moved from the tips of the arms to the centre of mass of the arms. (Think of the roller being at the end of a teeter-totter or at the balance point)

By moving the roller to the centre of mass they claim to transfer the force to the ramp more efficiently requiring either less weight, providing more force or a combination of the two.

I'm sure no one has tried one of these yet, since they're so new, so I guess I'm just looking for thoughts.

PS - For Yamadoopolcat;

In the article they talk about how TRA's used to dominate the grass drags, etc... because they provided more initial clamping force than a combined weight/ramp clutch. Recently, the big dogs in grass drags have changed to the weight/ramp type clutch (notably the Rage VIII) as it did a better job of squeezing the belt with its eight rollers rather than the three of the TRA. The article claims that this new arm design should restore the TRA back to top of the clutching heap.

No other clutch design has the ability to move the arm/weight/roller comnination around to achieve 100% mechanical efficiency like the TRA does.

.

madmax · Dec 4, 2008

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring this up. I,d like to know how well they work too. My guess is not any better than a well set up stock setup. When they released the heelclickers they were all the rage for about a year. Then it was the heel-X, again sounds good on paper insnowtech but not that great in the mountains. From what I've seen over the years its hard to beat a well set up stock clutch. Spent a lot of money gimmicks trying.

tollen77 · Dec 4, 2008

You may end up being right Madmax. The idea with heel clickers, etc... though is still just moving the weight around the arm as a band-aid for the force vector that a 'roller at the tip' arm produces.

Hopefully this new design does actually fundamentally change the way force is exerted to the ramps though.

madmax · Dec 4, 2008

All that being said, I'm a huge sucker for trying new, seems really cool, products that arent proven on the snow. Once in a while you really get surprised.

winter brew · Dec 4, 2008

Anxious to hear reports but I'm always a skeptic. It's already possible to apply more force than necessary anywhere through the shift ratio with traditional tuning parts......can only apply so much force without dropping RPM, power is your limiting factor. Time will tell.... :beer;

Ace Freely · Dec 4, 2008

Read the article as well, and like others, intrigued. Untill I saw the price...

Ace

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Dec 4, 2008

any of the noted tuners in here try em?

sandman · Dec 4, 2008

This article caught my eye also, price seems steep. Does anyone know what the kit consists of does it include ramps and spring also?

DWHalverson · Dec 4, 2008

I think I'm just stuck in a rut thinking that the weight does a more efficient job on the end of a light weight arm either being Ti, Composite or Magnesium.

edgeperformance · Dec 4, 2008

We now use the arm kit in the mountains for the past 2 seasons and we have to use a stiffer spring than the kit comes with and different weight than suggested but I can asure you they do shift out alot more in the mid and top end because the tip weight can't apply any more force at 3/4 to full shift out so this is typically were the "flyweight" clutches were better at top end lake racing and the TRA was better at drags. This is the only kit that has tech behind it than just adding or subtracting mass to the arm and pin.You DO have to change the secondary setup as well for best results though.

Skidoo xtc · Dec 4, 2008

Was wondering where you could buy these at. I couldn't find them on the supertorquer web site and the article in snow tech dindt say where to buy or how much.

tollen77 · Dec 4, 2008

sandman said:
This article caught my eye also, price seems steep. Does anyone know what the kit consists of does it include ramps and spring also?

It appears the kit comes with a new spring and it definately comes with new ramps as the design of the arm would not allow it to shift more than half way or so. A special ramp is definately required for this type of arm.

tollen77 · Dec 4, 2008

edgeperformance said:
We now use the arm kit in the mountains for the past 2 seasons and we have to use a stiffer spring than the kit comes with and different weight than suggested but I can asure you they do shift out alot more in the mid and top end because the tip weight can't apply any more force at 3/4 to full shift out so this is typically were the "flyweight" clutches were better at top end lake racing and the TRA was better at drags. This is the only kit that has tech behind it than just adding or subtracting mass to the arm and pin.You DO have to change the secondary setup as well for best results though.

Are you saying you have been using the CRM arms in the mountians for the past two seasons... testing I assume? If so, we need to talk.

edgeperformance · Dec 5, 2008

No we're talking about the old kit and how it has the same concept as the new arms but is less cost and will accomplish the same end result. The problem I see is in the ramp design and if it will work in the mountain scene or not, because what we all want is it to shift out as fast as possible with the greatest back shift. Randy @ super torquer does produce the most upshifting force of any clutch kit hands down, but it has to back shift just as fast.Were just finishing testing on our new engine brace kit to stop engine movement on the XP's and once we get more snow we'll be testing out the new arm kit.

Red-eye · Dec 6, 2008

i bought a set of supertorquer swing arms. let u know how it works. I had to phone not on site. talk to them the system makes sence.

snowrdr · Dec 7, 2008

I am installing them as I speak. Yes they do come with much larger ramps and a Blue primary spring. Also there is an adjustable pin kit that comes with it. I will post pics when done putting the arms in. Hope to run the sled today as well. My only issue so far is that the cotter pin seems a tiny bit short.

Original Tetonice · Dec 7, 2008

Yes they work very well we've been using them for several years in the TRA but just not as fancy a CNC as the boys as Supertorquer provide.....Go to TEAMS website or ThunderProducts and you will find adjustable arm's made for the TRA. Both the TEAM & Thunder offer a "heavy" and a "light" version. Simply load the weight in the desired position and you have what Supertorquer and others might claim as "new".

You can do the sesrch i've posted several pictures over the years of the assembly. It's also best to purchase a small digital scale to accurately insure the each arm equals the same weight when adding or subtracting washers

OT

tollen77 · Dec 7, 2008

Original Tetonice said:
Yes they work very well we've been using them for several years in the TRA but just not as fancy a CNC as the boys as Supertorquer provide.....Go to TEAMS website or ThunderProducts and you will find adjustable arm's made for the TRA. Both the TEAM & Thunder offer a "heavy" and a "light" version. Simply load the weight in the desired position and you have what Supertorquer and others might claim as "new".

You can do the sesrch i've posted several pictures over the years of the assembly. It's also best to purchase a small digital scale to accurately insure the each arm equals the same weight when adding or subtracting washers

OT

OT, I'm not talking about those arms, I'm talking about the arms that have the roller in the middle (or closer to the middle) of the arms and have the adjuustable weights at the tip - past where the roller is.

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tollen77 · Dec 7, 2008

snowrdr said:
I am installing them as I speak. Yes they do come with much larger ramps and a Blue primary spring. Also there is an adjustable pin kit that comes with it. I will post pics when done putting the arms in. Hope to run the sled today as well. My only issue so far is that the cotter pin seems a tiny bit short.

Eagerly awaiting to your reports, snowrdr and red-eye. Hope to get as much detail as possible.

Original Tetonice · Dec 7, 2008

tollen77 said:
OT, I'm not talking about those arms, I'm talking about the arms that have the roller in the middle (or closer to the middle) of the arms and have the adjuustable weights at the tip - past where the roller is.

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I know your not talking about "those arms" my point being is that the product and the result & effect has been available and on the market for a long time. Don't get me wrong i use a very similar product and give any type of adjustable roller a 100% rating.

Personal if you look closely at those other brands they offer more tunability. I would like to know what just the supertorquer arm weighs alone ???? My guess by the looks of it is approx 28 grams empty.

In fact the supertorquer design looks very similar to a design that the Talbot Bros. from Idaho have designed several years ago. The Talbots also work close with Randy from supertorquer who have together developed many unique internal parts to assist in TRA performance. Back in 2001 myself and DaveB spent alot of time tinkering with supertorquers and had good results in the deep mountain snow and learning how to tune the setup.

Its all about the weight .

Supertorquer 'Central Roller Mass' Swing Arms

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