You've Got To Be Kidding Me! Sled Quits First Day of a Four Day Ride!

[Frostbite]

I took a trip with some my old Yamaha buddies to McCall this weekend. It was their annual Yamaha forum ride and I brought my 09 M8. They were nice but, I was sure getting a bunch of ribbing for moving over to the green underwear crowd from the Yamaha guys.
I think I finally had my clutching down and the sled was running great until it started sputtering and then went to a very weak idle while side hilling on a moderate slope. The engine eventually died and I coasted to the bottom but, I saw no codes or flashing warning lights before it died. The right EGT seem a little lower than the left so we pulled all the plugs and everything looked fine.
We spent several hours trying to figure it out. We called five dealer service department and tried every idea they had to offer and finally after everyone gave up and one guy stayed to tow me out, we pulled the belt and hooked all the connectors back together and for the heck of it I tried starting it again and it fired up and I drove it around for 10-15 minutes. It was pulling great RPM (8,200 SLP Recommended with the Performance enhancement kit) but it was missing sporatically (sometime almost putting you over the bars) and then it just up and died again. It would start again, run weakly and die.
Finally, I got towed out of the mountains and then we started running into slush while being towed across a lake I couldn't be towed anymore. I had to do something and I was able to fire it up again (maybe because whatever the problem is cooled down?) and it ran strong and I was able to make it to about 75 yards from shore before it died again. Thankfully we made it off the lake and it's now in my covered trailer now and heading to the dealer Tuesday.
I'm pretty upset about it because it happened the first day of a four day trip to McCall Idaho. Thankfully, a kind gentleman allowed me to ride one of his extra sleds the other two days but, I still endured an incredible amount of humiliation being towed out right through the middle of a Yamaha forum ride.

One of the dealers said they had gotten another call the same day from a guy with a 2010 M8 with the same issues that was also riding in the McCall area.

What is the problem? A stator going south? A bad ECM? Moisture in the ECM pickup tube?

It makes me wonder, how wide spread is this problem?

 

[JHG]

sounds like a stator.

 

[AaronBND]

Wow.........thats a bummer Lee. I can only imagine all the stabs! I wish I had something for you, but I don't. I will follow the thread and hopefully learn. Good luck buddy.

Aaron

 

[Jeff K]

There was a few posts in another thread regarding a loose ground wire under the fuel tank that was causing similar issues.

Could it be bad fuel? Put a can of Seafoam in the tank, its good stuff.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks guys!

I did have Seafoam in the tank and the fuel looks great (I think).

I looked for the ground behind the brake but we couldn't find one. I must have had 20 guys stop and try to help (I don't care what they say, snowmobilers are generally nice people) and they each called their dealers and put me on the phone with the service departments. Very nice!

We replaced all the plugs and they were nice and brown. We unplugged the upper connectors isoilating the throttle safety switch, the kill and the ignition switch and no difference. There was plenty of fuel it seemed because as we checked for spark (which seemed to how up erratically) there was a bunch of visible fuel vapor blowing out of the empty spark plug hole. So we didn't think it was the fuel pump wire.

We unbolted the ECM and looked at the underside for anyhting burnt looking or a fuse but, we couldn't find a fuse anywhere, is there one on the 09s?

We unhooked the power commander and plugged everthing back in stock, we checked all grounds, coil wires, etc. The only thing that seems to me that made any difference is the little safety switch on the throttle. You can hear it click but, depending on where I held the throttle it seemed to make a difference if the sled fired or not, maybe? who knows?

I rode a 05 900 Polaris with a 166" track and Carl's Cycle goodies the last two days and my fingers and feet are still vibrating but, I sure do appreciate the chance to ride.

I'll let you guys know what the dealer finds. I guess they have a battery powered connector that reads any codes but, I never saw any warning lights so I hope there is something for them to read.

 

[WYsteph]

Sounds a lot like a stator issue to me. There was a 09 m8 way down in some trees in the snowies that was doing the very same thing, please do let us know what it turns out to be.

 

[White Rad]

I think the ground wire is on the back of the top bolt mag side that holds on the steering support hoop? Head of a few loose ground wires causing similar problems but it also sounds like same issue a buddy had and it was the stator. Pinched wire under gas tank maybe?

 

[Frostbite]

Three of us hunted for the supposed ground wire on the upper bolt on the right side of the steering loop and no one could see one. I wonder if they did away with or moved this ground on the 09s? I'll do some more hunting today.

Thanks for the ideas, keep them coming.

 

[garciava]

Hey Frostbite
my 09 m8 will do the same thing. I have a power commander. If I unhook it and hook teh ecu up directly with out the power comander it will start right up. Then I hook the power commander back up and it will run fine until it dies again. the last time out it did it several times in a short time so I road with out the power commander for about 15 minutes. After that it ran great with no issues the rest of the day.

I have been working with SLP and power comander tring to figure out the problem.

just a thought

 

[colorado logger]

Heat Shield under Y pipe

My sled and a friends had the same issues. Both had the SLP Y and pipe. The heat shield has to modified to make room for the Y pipe. All you have to do is take a look and see if heat shield is making contact with either of the injector wires. The shield will rub the wire until it grounds out. It will be intermittent just as you described, because the shield will move just enough to an ungrounded position. But if it touches the bare wire at any time, it will be just like you turned the switch off.

 

[Frostbite]

Wwo, you guys are giving me fresh ideas to check. Since the dealer isn't open today, I will have some time to check into these ideas.

The Power Commander didn't seem to make any difference on mine. We tried it hooked up and unhooked twice and it masde no difference, but I'll try it again today.

I don't think my heat shield is modified for the Y pipe? The dealer installed the pipe before I got the sled. I'll check the injector wires though.

Thanks for the great ideas.

Please keep them coming.

 

[Jeff K]

When they say modified, they mean it must be bent more in the middle so that it can clear the y-pipe/pipe which means it sits lower than it did stock.

 

[Braaap12]

My buddies sled did something similar. Ended up being the wiring harnes....

 

[Freakasnow]

look at injector wires

Had a cooker on my M7 rub the wires on the injector.

 

[Frostbite]

The injector wires will be the first thing I check.

If not that then what?

Is there a way to check the stator easily?

Do ECMs ever go belly up?

 

[Jeff K]

Testing Electrical Resistances:

IGNITION COIL (Primary)
1. Disconnect the double wire plug from the ECU to
the ignition coil.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. Connect the red meter lead to the black/white lead;
then connect the black meter lead to the white/blue
lead.
4. Ignition coil primary resistance must be between
0.24-0.36 ohm.
IGNITION COIL (Secondary)
1. Remove the spark-plug caps from the high tension
wires.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. Connect the red meter lead to one high tension
wire; then connect the black meter lead to the
other high tension wire.
4. Ignition coil secondary resistance must be between
5040-7560 ohms.
CHARGE COIL (1)
1. Disconnect the triple-wire plug from the main wiring
harness to the magneto.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. Connect the red meter lead to the black/red wire in
the plug; then connect the black meter lead to the
green/red wire in the plug.
4. Charge coil (1) resistance must be between 7.20-
10.8 ohms.
CHARGE COIL (2)
1. Disconnect the triple-wire plug from the ECU to
the magneto.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. Connect the red meter lead to the brown/white
wire in the plug; then connect the black meter lead
to the green/red wire in the plug.
4. Charge coil (2) resistance must be between 7.20-
10.8 ohms.
LIGHTING COIL
1. Disconnect the main wiring harness from the
engine.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. Connect the two meter leads to each of the yellow
leads in the connector from the engine.
4. Lighting coil resistance must be between 0.08-
0.12 ohm.
IGNITION TIMING SENSOR
1. Disconnect the two timing sensor connectors
(blue/white and brown/green - #1) and (green/
white and brown/green - #2) from the ECU.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position; then connect
the meter leads to the sensor leads.
3. Ignition timing sensor resistance must be between
148-222 ohms.
SPARK-PLUG CAP
1. Remove the spark-plug caps from the high tension
wires.
2. Set the selector in the OHMS position.
3. In turn on each cap, touch a tester lead to each end
of the spark-plug cap
4. Spark-plug cap resistance must be between 4000-
6000 ohms.
IGNITION SWITCH
1. Remove the main wiring harness connectors from
the ignition switch.
2. Rotate the key to the OFF position.
3. The meter must read less than 1 ohm resistance
between the ignition switch terminals.
4. Rotate the key to the RUN position.
5. The meter must read OL (infinite resistance).

 

[Frostbite]

Great! Thank you!

So there's nothing that specifically spells out how to verify if a stator or ECM is functioning normally?

 

[Jeff K]

Peak Voltage Checks:

?NOTE: Peak Voltage Tests (unless otherwise indicated)
were made with connectors unplugged
(except on primary coil test), spark plugs removed
and grounded, and by pulling the recoil starter
rope briskly.

CHARGE COIL (1) OUTPUT
1. Test between the black/red and green/red wires in
the triple-plug connector from the stator.
2. Pull the recoil starter rope briskly. Meter reading
must be within specification.
CHARGE COIL (2) OUTPUT
1. Test between the brown/white and green/red wires
in the triple-plug connector from the stator.
2. Pull the recoil starter rope briskly. Meter reading
must be within specification.
IGNITION TIMING SENSOR
(1 and 2)
1. Test between the blue/white (1) or the green/white
(2) and brown/green wires in the connector from
the sensor.
2. Pull the recoil starter rope briskly. Meter reading
must be within specification.
PRIMARY COIL OUTPUT
(MAG/PTO)
1. Connect the red meter lead to the orange/red wire
(MAG) or to the white/red wire (PTO); then connect
the black meter lead to the orange/black wire
(MAG) or to the white/black wire (PTO).
2. Pull the recoil starter rope briskly. Meter reading
must be within specification.
LIGHTING COIL OUTPUT
1. Connect the red meter lead to one yellow wire;
then connect the black meter lead to the other yellow
wire.
2. Pull the recoil starter rope briskly. Meter reading
must be within specification.
LIGHTING COIL OUTPUT
(@ 2000 RPM)
1. Attach the red maxiclip to the yellow lead; then
attach the black maxiclip to the brown lead.
2. Connect the red meter lead to the red maxiclip;
then connect the black meter lead to the black
maxiclip.
3. With the rear of the snowmobile on a shielded
safety stand, run the engine at 2000 RPM.
4. Meter reading must be within specification.

 

[Frostbite]

I'm at the point where I want to double check everything I can easily making darn sure the problem is nothing I have done to the sled. The last thing I need is a $650 bill from the dealer because whatever it is, isn't covered by warranty (which seems to be a reoccuring theme for me unfortunately) or they can say I messed something up.

Yet, having said all that, there are tons of electrical checks that will need to be done and my 2 year warranty should cover that, right?

 

[JHG]

I think your warranty coverage will depend on the dealer. The SLP performance package will probably technically void the warranty. As far as the stator goes, they are hard to check until they completely fail, and the sled won't start