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Yellowstone

C

ccoleman77

ACCOUNT CLOSED
By MATTHEW BROWN
Associated Press writer

Friday, July 24, 2009 2:06 AM MDT

BILLINGS, Mont. -- The number of snowmobiles allowed in Yellowstone National Park would be cut by more than half under an Obama administration proposal announced Thursday that marked yet another policy swing on an issue that's been unresolved for more than a decade.

The proposal would allow 318 snowmobiles and 78 multi-passenger snowcoaches daily for the next two winters. That's down from 720 snowmobiles per day allowed last winter.

The question of how many snowmobiles are appropriate for the nation's first national park has sparked political and legal skirmishing since the Clinton administration, when an outright ban was proposed.

Power shifts in Washington and federal lawsuits from environmentalists and snowmobile advocates have led to constantly changing rules for the machines -- a factor that advocates contend has dampened snowmobiler interest in Yellowstone.

The prior cap of 720 machines was never reached. An average of 205 snowmobiles daily entered the park in 2008-09, when the busiest day of the season saw only 426 of the machines.

Yellowstone straddles the borders of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. During winter months, the park interior is largely inaccessible except to snowmachines and ambitious skiers and snowshoers.

"The proposed rule would allow continued access to the park in winter, while ensuring the protection of this national treasure and its wildlife," Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said in a statement.

During the two years the rule would be in effect, Salazar's agency would conduct an environmental analysis and try again to craft a permanent snowmobile cap.

Salazar spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff said the secretary "wants to make sure that the best science available is being used."

The public will be invited to weigh in during a 45-day comment period.

During the 1990s, the average annual peak for snowmobiles in the park was 1,400 machines. That's more than four times the administration's proposal.

Some snowmobile advocates viewed Thursday's announcement as the first step toward pushing them out of the park altogether.

"There's a strong push out there from a radical few that won't stop until there's no winter use" by snowmobiles, said Jeff Moberg, president of the Wyoming State Snowmobile Association.

Moberg added that restrictions on the machines fail to take account of technological advances that have sharply cut snowmobile pollution. Those technologies have been required for snowmobiles entering the park for the last several years, said Yellowstone spokesman Al Nash.

The head of a group of retired park employees that has pushed for tighter snowmobile restrictions called Thursday's announcement "a step in the right direction."

"It's reasonable to expect they could phase them out from 318 over a two or three year period to zero," said Bill Wade with the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees.

Last year brought competing rulings on the matter from two U.S. District Court judges.

In September, Judge Emmet Sullivan in Washington, D.C., rejected a National Park Service plan to allow 540 snowmobiles daily into Yellowstone.

Siding with environmental groups who had sued over the plan, Sullivan said that many machines would cause too much noise and disturb the park's wildlife. In response, the National Park Service came up with a new plan to allow 318 machines -- the same plan the administration now wants to revive.

Less than two months later, Judge Clarence Brimmer in Cheyenne ruled in a separate lawsuit filed by snowmobile advocates that 720 was the right figure while a long-term plan was crafted. That was consistent with what the park permitted for the previous several years.
 
I'm sure they won't have time for public input. And, a judge will have to step in. If they had just accepted the 540 sleds a day number. Most everyone would have been happy.
 
Yellowstone was lost to me when they required us to hire a guide to ride in the park. I have no problem riding a sled using BAT or even limiting the number to a reasonable level such as the 700 or so now on the books. My problem lies in the fact my freedom to enjoy the park on MY terms were taken away, I don't want some guide dictating to me whe to stop, when to eat, and when head back to the lodge etc. The freedom to enjoy the park at my leasure was the biggest joy. In summer time there is no such restriction and I can guarentee you there is MUCH more disruption of the wildlife and one HEll of a lot more polution being introduced into the ecosystem. I'm very glad I had my chance to experience it before all of these restrictions were put into place. This crap was started under Clinton, continued under Bush and will now will be taken away by Obama and I believe at the end of the day we've already have lost this battle in Yellowstone. We need to focus our sights on fights we have a better chance of winning.
 
Yellowstone was lost to me when they required us to hire a guide to ride in the park. I have no problem riding a sled using BAT or even limiting the number to a reasonable level such as the 700 or so now on the books. My problem lies in the fact my freedom to enjoy the park on MY terms were taken away, I don't want some guide dictating to me whe to stop, when to eat, and when head back to the lodge etc. The freedom to enjoy the park at my leasure was the biggest joy. In summer time there is no such restriction and I can guarentee you there is MUCH more disruption of the wildlife and one HEll of a lot more polution being introduced into the ecosystem. I'm very glad I had my chance to experience it before all of these restrictions were put into place. This crap was started under Clinton, continued under Bush and will now will be taken away by Obama and I believe at the end of the day we've already have lost this battle in Yellowstone. We need to focus our sights on fights we have a better chance of winning.

Well said.....
 
Yellowstone was lost to me when they required us to hire a guide to ride in the park. I have no problem riding a sled using BAT or even limiting the number to a reasonable level such as the 700 or so now on the books. My problem lies in the fact my freedom to enjoy the park on MY terms were taken away, I don't want some guide dictating to me whe to stop, when to eat, and when head back to the lodge etc. The freedom to enjoy the park at my leasure was the biggest joy. In summer time there is no such restriction and I can guarentee you there is MUCH more disruption of the wildlife and one HEll of a lot more polution being introduced into the ecosystem. I'm very glad I had my chance to experience it before all of these restrictions were put into place. This crap was started under Clinton, continued under Bush and will now will be taken away by Obama and I believe at the end of the day we've already have lost this battle in Yellowstone. We need to focus our sights on fights we have a better chance of winning.


Yep, went there for five trips. Had a guide the first time. Guided sucked, but I didn't even own a sled back then. Enjoyed the trips without a guide, much more. But, that was 10 to 15 years ago. I doubt I'll ever go back in the winter.

But, I disagree. Yellowstone may be lost to sledder,. but not to the general public that's never sledded. It's a good introduction to them. So, I say it's still worth fighting for. And, as previously mentioned. It keeps the greenies busy, and away from the Payette National Forest.
 
I went to the Yellowstone National Park (YNP) service web page to retrieve the most current visitor numbers which are posted below. It is hard to imagine why these numbers are not current, a three (3) year lag time is difficult to appreciate.

2,870,293 = 2006 total annual visitors
100,223 = 2005 - 2006 winter visitors...sleds...slowcoaches’...skiers
2,770,070 = 2006 summer time visitors

It is difficult to imagine 100K winter time visitors doing more damage (if any) to the YNP ecosystem than 2.7M summer time users.

The green shielders are masterful at covering up their true agenda. It surely cannot be to halt the 100K winter time visitor. The interesting story is the green shielders then turn a blind eye and continue to allow the 2.7M summer time visitor to continue un-checked....for now.

My money is on the 2.7M summer time visitors to YNP doing more damage to the YPN ecosystem then the current generation of snowmobiles/winter time users could ever attempt to duplicate at 100K.

Craig.
 
I went to the Yellowstone National Park (YNP) service web page to retrieve the most current visitor numbers which are posted below. It is hard to imagine why these numbers are not current, a three (3) year lag time is difficult to appreciate.

2,870,293 = 2006 total annual visitors
100,223 = 2005 - 2006 winter visitors...sleds...slowcoaches’...skiers
2,770,070 = 2006 summer time visitors

It is difficult to imagine 100K winter time visitors doing more damage (if any) to the YNP ecosystem than 2.7M summer time users.

The green shielders are masterful at covering up their true agenda. It surely cannot be to halt the 100K winter time visitor. The interesting story is the green shielders then turn a blind eye and continue to allow the 2.7M summer time visitor to continue un-checked....for now.

My money is on the 2.7M summer time visitors to YNP doing more damage to the YPN ecosystem then the current generation of snowmobiles/winter time users could ever attempt to duplicate at 100K.

Craig.

Agree with you, but here's the real numers for 2008

Once again, the West Entrance at West Yellowstone, Mont., had the most oversnow vehicle traffic, with 13,984 visitors by snowmobile and 12,747 by snowcoach.

The south gate (north of Jackson) was next, with 8,764 snowmobile visitors and 3,583 via snowcoach.

The North Entrance (Gardiner, Mont.) had 576 visitors by snowmobile and 2,633 visitors by snowcoach.

The East Entrance (near Cody) had 92 visitors by snowmobile, none by snowcoach and 203 cross-country skiers, though uncertainty over whether it would open this winter may have been a factor.

Say, around 24,000 snowmobile riders total, lots of people ride 2-up.

Link: http://www.wyomingbusinessreport.com/article.asp?id=99985

Wade
 
[But, I disagree. Yellowstone may be lost to sledder,. but not to the general public that's never sledded. It's a good introduction to them. So, I say it's still worth fighting for. And, as previously mentioned. It keeps the greenies busy, and away from the Payette National Forest.[/QUOTE]

Ok I'll give you that Wade, for those who have never sledded it is worth keeping up the fight.:beer;
 
One other thing this bullchit ruling does is push West Yellowstone, and other sourounding small towns, further into collapse. As these towns rely on tourism $$ to stay alive. Every year we go to West and there are less and less shops open, motels are deserts, restaraunts are shut down, etc. etc. due to the sled bans:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
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