I know it has been asked before, but I'm looking for some pre season snowbike conversation. I really don't want a moto-cross style bike for the summer. So what does everyone prefer for their snowbike? How do the wide ratio woods bikes do?
Wide or Short Ratio Type Bike?
- Thread starter AndrettiDog
- Start date
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
With KTM and the XC vs XCW, 1st and 2nd are lower on the W, and 3rd through 6th are the same.
1st is quite a bit lower, and 2nd is just barely lower.
So considering we don't go below 2nd very much, it's not too big of deal. Just slightly bigger jump between 2nd and 3rd. Plus easier starts in 1st for loading, etc.
And you know what it's like trying to climb beer cooler sized rocks in the summer with too tall of 1st gear!
1st is quite a bit lower, and 2nd is just barely lower.
So considering we don't go below 2nd very much, it's not too big of deal. Just slightly bigger jump between 2nd and 3rd. Plus easier starts in 1st for loading, etc.
And you know what it's like trying to climb beer cooler sized rocks in the summer with too tall of 1st gear!
I noticed on the KTM site that the 2017 USA bikes only shows one 450 in the Enduros. The 450 XC-F. No "W" version. Am I looking in the wrong place?
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Doubt it, KTM really changed their line ups. Might have to look for leftover 16 models.
Or go 300, and the 17's are tight with it being a new motor.
I've got money down on a 300xc. Would rather have the XCW, but dealer only had an XC not sold, and is taking a sled on trade.
Or go 300, and the 17's are tight with it being a new motor.
I've got money down on a 300xc. Would rather have the XCW, but dealer only had an XC not sold, and is taking a sled on trade.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Don't know Yamaha's gearing, but if i didn't already have a 4 stroke snowbike. I'd be looking very seriously at the FX. Just easier to get a good price on them.
Are you going to do a snowbike kit on the 300? That sounded interesting to me as well. Buying a KTM or Beta 300 and using it both ways.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Husky has a 2017 450 in what should a wide ratio 6 speed. BUT it's the full lights and mirror enduro version, like the EXC from KTM.
If you're tagging in the summer, not too big of deal.
If you're tagging in the summer, not too big of deal.
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Rush44
Well-known member
The close ratio trans is, other than the motor, the most critical attribute for snowbiking for me. Can you snowbike with a wide ratio? Absolutely. I just find myself always hunting for the correct gear and the jumps between gears are too great (2nd and 3rd, I'm looking at you!).
I think a good alternative would be to pick up the close ratio race bike for the winter and then mod it with a Rekluse Core EXP 3.0 which would address pretty much all of your clutching concerns for summer tight single track. That way you can have the best of both worlds. Snowbiking is the most important use of the bike for me so winter gets the important check marks.
I think a good alternative would be to pick up the close ratio race bike for the winter and then mod it with a Rekluse Core EXP 3.0 which would address pretty much all of your clutching concerns for summer tight single track. That way you can have the best of both worlds. Snowbiking is the most important use of the bike for me so winter gets the important check marks.
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n16ht5
Well-known member
I've had two four strokes with wide ratios and one short ratio, and learned to live with the long ratio.. the close ratio is easier to ride tight terrain 2nd/3rd gear. If you don't plan on going over 55mph, you can just gear down a new 450XCF and be OK for summer.
I am happy on my FE501, works better for dual sport in summer... 65+ and hard trails in the same day without worry.
Try a Rekluse before you buy one. They are either a love or hate thing. If you are more of a finger bang the clutch type rider you will hate it (I fall into this category)
I am happy on my FE501, works better for dual sport in summer... 65+ and hard trails in the same day without worry.
Try a Rekluse before you buy one. They are either a love or hate thing. If you are more of a finger bang the clutch type rider you will hate it (I fall into this category)
I thought about this but was concerned about what the Rekluse does for snowbiking. I'm new to the sport and have only ridden a couple bikes. They were both 450's.
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Rush44
Well-known member
I had a Rekluse for a season on my KX450F. I don't think it has any real negatives for snowbiking, but I don't think the positives are that big either. Maybe for a newbie the ability to roll on power and lug around a little more is nice, but clutching is important to winter more than most people think. The Rekluse really shines in the summer on tight gnarly trail... awesome mod. The swap is easy and remember, you can treat the Rekluse like a normal clutch and just get the added stall protection. You can also change the engagement of the Rekluse so that is acts like a completely normal clutch if you don't want the stall protection.
The dreaded gap between 2 and 3rd is awful, even in the summer for me. 2nd isn't fast enough to get up soft stuff, and it can't handle being in 3rd. Imagine this would be awful in the snow.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Yup, it will be a snowbike.
Guessing the 300 sales being so good are part of the reason KTM has thinned out their line up? As the 300's are the only ones that are still XC or XCW.
Hey rush, i remember u talking about when u used your nitrous button. Seems like shifting into 3rd then hitting the button if it lugs might work huh?
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barefooter
Well-known member
Rush - this not pointed at you but I cannot understand the hate some people have for the Rekluse. Who have likely never ridden with one... Let it be perfectly clear... You can use it just like a normal clutch. The only thing a little harder is to bump start the bike. Who in the hell has ever bump started a snowbike often enough that you would care? (There is also a handy little lockout devise if you need too - so there.)
No one makes a bike as easy to start as a modern EFI sled. (The one thing I really miss about sledding is the half-hearted pull on a cord to get it going again). I rode a KX450 last year for a bit. Great bike - no happy button. Hated to death having to kick the thing on anything but level ground. That Rekluse was a lifesaver. Lay it over - bike kept on purring without the track spinning. Tight tight trees following crazy, fast as hell Aussies where you lay it over 4 times in 5 minutes? Pure gold. I will never ride without one again.
for 2017 you are correct
Wide Ratio - like on dirt!... ride enduro style... less gear changes more clutch work. Use the clutch to keep the rpm up and feed the power from the engine to fill any gaps between the gears.
Pros - less gear changes / deep snow and certain types of boots can make finding the gear shifter hard at times.
Less need to stop and clear snow that can pack around pegs and shifter.
Do other people ride your bike? well for less experienced riders less shifting means less to think about... and not everyone shifts as cleanly as they should so less wear and tear as well.
On a really heavy powder snow day with less experienced riders... put it in 2nd and forget about it can help alot.
Cons - lugging the engine - more strain on conrod, bearings etc.
Less power... compensating for gaps in a wide gear ratio by slipping the clutch means less power to the track.
If you find yourself in the wrong gear and can't compensate with the clutch its very hard to keep momentum if forced to shift down gears.
Narrow Ratio - also like on dirt!... work the gears more and less slipping of the clutch.
Pros - POWER as long as you keep shifting into the right gear... unbeatable power! And if you find yourself in the wrong gear... alot less chance of loosing momentum when shifting into the right gear!.
Cons - Shift.. Shift.. Shift.. Shift. Thinking ahead and shifting. Not a lazy mans ride.
Rarely will you lug the engine but you will find your self in the higher rpm range alot more often... less strain but more wear on rings / cylinder etc. (IMHO much better then the strain and types of failures that can come from lugging the engine not really a big con then!!).
Some MX bikes also run out of gears at the top and struggle to keep up on those 6th gear flatout open areas.
Examples
If I am traversing up a steep slope... especially between trees with variable snow... and looking to turn uphill to zigzag back. I'm always happier to be on a narrow ratio bike as there is much less chance of loosing momentum due to arcing the turn in less then perfect manner and pushing the front ski or hitting deeper snow at an awkward moment and being forced to shift down.
I am also happier being on a narrow ratio bike when following another rider in technical terrain and find myself forced between 2nd and 3rd. Much less issue of an issue if riding in front.
I am happier on a wide ratio bike when touring longer distance on more open terrain. Constant shifting up and down the gears as the group regularly speeds up and slows down to admire the scenery is tedious.
I hate being on a narrow ratio bike in 5th on the limiter and watching wide ratio bikes disappear into the distance on any long open areas.
Most of the time though its not a huge issue. But on a challenging day give me the MX bike.
Pros - less gear changes / deep snow and certain types of boots can make finding the gear shifter hard at times.
Less need to stop and clear snow that can pack around pegs and shifter.
Do other people ride your bike? well for less experienced riders less shifting means less to think about... and not everyone shifts as cleanly as they should so less wear and tear as well.
On a really heavy powder snow day with less experienced riders... put it in 2nd and forget about it can help alot.
Cons - lugging the engine - more strain on conrod, bearings etc.
Less power... compensating for gaps in a wide gear ratio by slipping the clutch means less power to the track.
If you find yourself in the wrong gear and can't compensate with the clutch its very hard to keep momentum if forced to shift down gears.
Narrow Ratio - also like on dirt!... work the gears more and less slipping of the clutch.
Pros - POWER as long as you keep shifting into the right gear... unbeatable power! And if you find yourself in the wrong gear... alot less chance of loosing momentum when shifting into the right gear!.
Cons - Shift.. Shift.. Shift.. Shift. Thinking ahead and shifting. Not a lazy mans ride.
Rarely will you lug the engine but you will find your self in the higher rpm range alot more often... less strain but more wear on rings / cylinder etc. (IMHO much better then the strain and types of failures that can come from lugging the engine not really a big con then!!).
Some MX bikes also run out of gears at the top and struggle to keep up on those 6th gear flatout open areas.
Examples
If I am traversing up a steep slope... especially between trees with variable snow... and looking to turn uphill to zigzag back. I'm always happier to be on a narrow ratio bike as there is much less chance of loosing momentum due to arcing the turn in less then perfect manner and pushing the front ski or hitting deeper snow at an awkward moment and being forced to shift down.
I am also happier being on a narrow ratio bike when following another rider in technical terrain and find myself forced between 2nd and 3rd. Much less issue of an issue if riding in front.
I am happier on a wide ratio bike when touring longer distance on more open terrain. Constant shifting up and down the gears as the group regularly speeds up and slows down to admire the scenery is tedious.
I hate being on a narrow ratio bike in 5th on the limiter and watching wide ratio bikes disappear into the distance on any long open areas.
Most of the time though its not a huge issue. But on a challenging day give me the MX bike.
Question is it correct that the rekluse is a centrifugal clutch engages at low rpms... if so.. what happens to engine braking... especially with a 4 stroke.... I'd hate to suddenly loose engine braking down a steep technical track, it could surprise you at a very awkward moment.
As for snowbikes... descending steep terrain using engine braking seems sooo much more reliable then the rear brake. Maybe its cold fingers but the rear brake on a snowbike seems pretty on/off at times. Brake too suddenly and the rear will create a nicely compacted and slippery layer of snow.
