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Who use's a wideband on a N/A sled?

rcr1978

Member
Lifetime Membership
I figured I would ask just to see what others are seeing. My sled I put one on when it was bone stock just to get and idea what it ran before I started throwin some parts at it.
Stock
Idle 14.3-14.9
Mid 15-17.4
Full throttle 14.5-15.0

Before everyone jumps on the band wagon about sensor placement and type of gauge I will mention I have tried all 3 locations, by the temp sensor, pipe neck, and the can. They all read the same, also I use a Dynojet Wideband commander for the ability to log. From what I see and also what most wideband manufactures say are readings are not correct due to undburned full and air in the exhaust, I have found if I even try to go as low as 13.2 under full throttle it is pig rich and alot slower than stock.

Now I added a SLP pipe set AFR numbers are very similiar to stock. I tried to fatten up the mid and top end just to see if there was anything left on the table. Got the mid range down to 14.5-7 and its a little blubbery, top end is at 13.2-5 And I get spanked by a stock 08M8 on long climbs. So I pulled my fuel box off just to see and sled ran way better again AFR is around 14.5-9.

So what I'm getting at is everyone else seeing the same thing or is it just my setup? I put one of these on because I didnt want to F with reading plugs and just wanted to ride. I think if your tuning by a wideband on a N/A sled and aiming for high 12's and low 13's your leaving alot on the table as far performance is considered, just wondering what everyone else's thoughts are?
 
I think you are onto something and I would have to agree that with my A/F numbers in the recommended ranges I am running rich. I never ran the A/F guage on my stock pipe so I don't have the numbers to compare like you do. When I first bolted on all of my mods I had a friend with the exact same setup as mine except he had EGT's and I tried running his Boondocker box numbers and according to my A/F numbers I was way to lean. I would like to run EGT's with my A/F to get a better idea of what is going on but I don't want to spend the money. Hopefully this thread will spark some interesting comments.
 
Looking at PCV maps and Boondocker numbers from different guys on here, I think a lot of guys are running pretty fat leaving a lot on the table. I tune strictly off of my plug color and by the sound of the engine at all the different rpm ranges. The gauges are nice to give you baselines and an idea of where you are at, but I think it all varies so much from sled to sled that each one is different. For instance, I know with my EGT gauges that my danger area is above 1260 for more than a few seconds. Never thrown a A/F gauge on, but would be curious to see where my map lies. Thanks for the post! Interesting................

Aaron
 
mine

mine is a 07 m1000 with a bdx intake, and jaws can runs crisp all the time. my a/f show similar to others posting with 14.7 at idle, 13.5-16 mid and 12.5-12.7 at full always runs good. it has the 08 update but im not having problems
 
For the record I’m not a tuner.

I have the EGT and a A/F gauge. I never ran the gauges when it was stock. The A/F gauge runs in the 14 to 15 range at idle and half throttle and in the 12 range at full throttle. The EGT gauge run’s in the 800 to 1100 temps. I talked to a trusted company tech and he told me from his testing the M1000 can run on the lean side just fine. My plugs are a little on the rich side too. I’m just to chicken chit to lean it out a little more but I know I could safely.
 
For the record I’m not a tuner.

I have the EGT and a A/F gauge. I never ran the gauges when it was stock. The A/F gauge runs in the 14 to 15 range at idle and half throttle and in the 12 range at full throttle. The EGT gauge run’s in the 800 to 1100 temps. I talked to a trusted company tech and he told me from his testing the M1000 can run on the lean side just fine. My plugs are a little on the rich side too. I’m just to chicken chit to lean it out a little more but I know I could safely.

Why do you have both gauges if you are afraid to tune it back?

Aaron
 
Why do you have both gauges if you are afraid to tune it back?

Aaron

I bought the A/F gauge first. One of the good tuners on here helped me for a day while we were riding but use's the EGT's only. So I bought one and put it one for him to help. The sled run's good right now so I haven't messed with it. But I'm going to copy my numbers when I get a chance and play with it.

The wife hates when I work on the sled when were are riding and I have been with big groups so far this year.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone hope this one will stay goin for a while, guess Im gonna have to get of my a$$ and start reading plugs, wash, and pipe colors then. I would bet that a nice chocolate brown plug on my sled at wot would be 15.0 on my AFR gauge
 
Your numbers seem very lean to me. I run a afr and just like most idle is high 14s, mid is 13s under load is 12s or high 11s. I only see a rich misfire when in the low 10s. I am thinking about geting a egt gague as well. I think with a egt there are less variables to be worried about. So after using a afr it seems like idle to mid-range and anything not wide open tune with AFR. but all wide open pulls tune with the egt. I havent done this but it seems to make sense to me.
 
When I had everything bone stock just a fuel box I got my AFR down to 12.7-12.9 at wot from 14.5-14.9 my sled would soot up the snow and inside the belly pan by the factory muffler it was pig rich and doggy as hell.
 
If you install the two-stroke adapter in the wrong direction will it effect your readings? My buddy didn't know he needed to line up the dot when he welded it in and it ended up pointed about 120 degrees off. He also sees lean numbers. Any relation?
 
Not here I dont use that sucker anymore for the can, tried it both ways when I had the o2 sensor in the pipe with and without the adapter and the dot was facing the correct way. Good find though. My wideband box checked out the other day so I will try the new Dynojet WB2 and post back after a while could have just been the old Wideband setup to.
 
I have an 08 M8. I did not read the AF ratio before tuning. But I did run it in the dyno, and in stock form, these sleds are scary lean at top. We did barley pop over 0.60bfsc. That is to lean if you are piped etc. I`ve adjusted my WOT settings in the dyno at 0.64-0.65bfsc. That gave reasonable temp readings. These engines seems to like high ex temps, that`s what I`ve seen. Just installed an AF meter, but haven`t had time to read it whil wot yet. Will do in a couple of weeks. What comes up on my, should be safe whatever the numbers are.
Guys leaning on extemp for tuning has to have a lot of experience whit the mods and the engine before the tuning should make a difference. Everything you do to an engine affect the ex temp. Change in the timing f.ex will raise or lower the egt. The only way you have a good tune whit egt, is that you have the know how about the engine and the mods to it.
For us that don`t have the skills, AF is the way to go. AF will always show you how the engine burns the fuel and air. And if the AF is right, then the temps also are ok whatever it shows you.
If you talk to people that had several types of sled, and tuned them, you will see that someone would say “rotax 800HO works best at 1100” f.ex. Same man could have figured the 800VES is at is best at 1200.
Setup right, bought will have the same AF ratio, but different EGT readings.
 
You can tune a M1000 back to very high 12's, 13.0 on the top end, any leaner and you'll burn it down on a long pull.

I tune for around stoiciometric at idle so that it starts easily, then 14.5-15.5 for the low throttle midrange, fatter for anything over about 40% throttle in the midrange.

If you get it fat in the mid it will be a sluggish pig. Run it a hair lean so that it's snappy and don't ride the midrange the whole time.

Run the top end fat enough so that you don't have to worry about sticking a piston on a long full throttle pull. Like I said, I won't go past 13:1 but watch plugs once you get past 12.5

Thats with the prope mounted in tapered section of the pipe toward the can.
 
If you install the two-stroke adapter in the wrong direction will it effect your readings? My buddy didn't know he needed to line up the dot when he welded it in and it ended up pointed about 120 degrees off. He also sees lean numbers. Any relation?

Your buddy must be a real idiot! I'll just bet this idiot does not ever let his numbers get higher then 14, on your Koso. 13's are what he likes to run. This buddy has also noticed a lot cooler drive clutch, Hmmm What up yo! This silly buddy of yours had a guy 2 weeks ago tell your buddy that pre-mixxing 32:1 is way too much oil, and had too big of numbers on the ol' BD box. Your buddy told him when Buddy's *** gets kicked by a similar sled, then maybe buddy will lean out that big ol' 1000.

As Always
Buddy
 
wtf is that post supposed to mean ?

serious topic man

If this statement is in reference to what I said, then I will say you either have zero sense of humor, or you do not know how to read.

I got called out for some bad dot alignment on my sensor tig weld job. Hello everyone, I am rooster740, and I have a welding problem.(clapping and welcoming from the crowd at Oops I Screwed Up Anonimous)

For clarification I Have a 07 M1000 with a timber sled intake, slp pipe, and previously as a stock sled with 12 miles on it, I burned it up. I think too many people are tearing up cranks and pistons trying to run these things too lean. I run mine in the 13's and 15's at idle. I burned it up again last spring trying to run close to the ragged edge and watching egt's and plugs. I usually like her on the rich side, but not a pig. Since I installed the A/F gauge I now have three maps on my BD box. One for climbing with a clean hood which is fat on the top. One a a bit more lean for boondocking with a ton of snow on the hood, and one for bee-bopping up the trail which is fat in the mid range. Last words said are 13's work great for me.
 
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